Newbie to HK ??????

Never judge a pistol by a range gun.

Hmm, what about all those posts that advise people looking to buy a pistol to go to a range and rent some to make sure they like them? Sometimes, a range gun is all that you have to make judgements by.

I realize it's a range gun, could've fired hundreds of thousands of rounds, been neglected, etc, etc - but the reputation of the USP is such that I figured it could withstand it, and was disappointed.

I also don't think that the problem with chafed hands is something that would change from a range to a friend's gun (though I don't know anyone with a USP in 'Real Life'tm.

Maybe a Hogue grip (the rubber type that slips over the entire grip) and a new USP would change my view, but I don't think it's likely I am going to lay out $600 for a USP just to find out if I was wrong after that experience.
 
I rent firearms at the range to check

- how the trigger feels. Might feel better than a new one because of worn action or might feel worse because of grit?

- how quick the reset it

- how it feels in my hand (points and carries)

- how recoils, considering the weight, cartridge fired and bore axis.

- accuracy, things like that.

If it doesn't malfunction, it's a bonus. If it does, the I would analyze the malfunction (was it limp wrist or mechanical?) and then ask the staff about it. I've got alot to learn about the mechanics of semis, but I'm keeping my ears open.

As mentioned, the extractor could be messed up, the magazine springs could be oooold, it might not have been lubed or had mucho residue in the action things like that.
As far as the checkering, just grab some sandpaper and work it to a fine grit and you will be happy. Or a houge or A-grip or whatever would thicken the grip but protect soft hands.
 
Shake, you must have also missed Tom's response.

Thread was started when someone posted a knee jerk message on the board regarding a policy and Tom didn't answer right away (he was away at work). During this time the thread took on a life of its own and Tom was equated to Hitler and lots of drama queens stated that this policy should change or they would leave.

Others on the board told them not to let the door hit them in the ass. They made several, "you're gonna miss me when I'm gone" posts and were finally (thankfully) gone.

Tom got back from work and read what was going on and was understandably pissed. Think about it: this guy spends a ton of his limited spare time and his own money (with no support from HK) to put on this outstanding board as a service to enthusiasts of HK products, and he is tried and sentenced in absentia.

Didn't respond to email? Would you respond to questions like "how often do you beat your wife?". I wouldn't waste my time.

So, it boiled down that if someone is stupid enough to advertise illegal products for sale on the board and Tom is served with a warrant to reveal the registration info on the individual, he will. Nothing more, nothing less. Gee, he sure sounds like a Hitler-reincarnate to me. :rolleyes:

HKPro.com is a great resource for the HK enthusiast. And Tom and the rest of the administrators do a great job keeping the GlockTalk-esq flame wars to a minimum. Don't let those with an axe to grind keep you away.
 
Been reding some good stuff over there. I think my next full size pistol will be an HK just not sure what flavor yet. Thanks for all the input ...that's why I love this board so much ! :D
 
HKP7excellent gun, unfortunatly i dont own one.
HkUSP FULL SIZE 9MM, own one and love it. The other posts r right, it is completly dependable and wil eat any ammo sent through it (including the infamous WOLF AMMO) The one down side is the grip checkering is pretty sharp but u either get used to it or slap a Houge hand all grip on it to make it more comfortable. One more down side the USP full size is a big gun for 9mm (IMHO) 40, 45 ,357 i think the frame size would be better If I had to do it all over I would have gotten a compact 9MM and a Full size 45. If u want to go really big get the HK SoCOM in 45. its not much smaller then my friends 44 Mag D Eagle. All USP are accurate as anything out there.( that will probaly start an argument or two:) :p :eek:
good luck picking one out
RM
 
Foxy...

The HK USP is probably one of the best out-of-the-box service autos you can buy.

BUT

It is a mechanical beast. Any individual itteration of the animal may have problems, bent parts, etc... A range gun is often never cleaned, has questionable ammo put through it (even if not allowed), man-handled to the point of breakage, and generally abused.

Yes, it would inspire confidence a lot more if the range would troubleshoot their rentals a bit more frequently, but its not the end-all be-all of the evaluation.

I think that grip feel, trigger, recoil, accuracy (to the degree needed), natural pointing, etc, are far more important in the range evaluation stage of choosing a new firearm than 100% reliability. Not because you shouldn't demand it from your own guns, but you are not going to treat them like the range does.

As far as the checkering goes, I have noticed a difference from gun to gun in that department. My HK USP45f has mild checkering, but a range 45c that I tried was extremely sharp and hurt my hand. the previous poster was correct, take some fine sandpaper ti it and knock off the points of the checkering. Voila! instant better grip.

Hope this helps!

JT
 
As for the chafing: the sandpaper surface on the grips can be a bit harsh. When I first carried mine, the left side of the grip would turn my back red after a day in the holser. I spent 30 seconds with a file and knocked of the big points. It's been fine ever since.
 
larryw,

Thanks for the info. I appreciate it. Two sides to every story. . . I will continue to spend time there at HKPro.com.

Foxy,
Hmm, what about all those posts that advise people looking to buy a pistol to go to a range and rent some to make sure they like them? Sometimes, a range gun is all that you have to make judgements by.
Click to expand...

I say those posts are right on and people should fire the handguns in consideration at the range. As krept said, there are many things to take into account when renting a gun. reliability isn't one of them if the background of the firearm is unknown (unless you pulled it out of the factory box yourself).

Think of it this way, if you drove a buddy's truck that happened to have 80K miles on it and the engine siezed on you, would you judge all of "X" brand of truck by your experience (even new ones)? I wouldn't. for all I know, the truck had never had routine maintenance.

I realize it's a range gun, could've fired hundreds of thousands of rounds, been neglected, etc, etc - but the reputation of the USP is such that I figured it could withstand it, and was disappointed.
Click to expand...

No gun that I know of can stand being neglected and still function 100%.

If you know of one that can withstand thousands of rounds of range ammo, lack of routine cleaning, a few bad reloads, etc., and still have no failures. . . let me know. I'll buy one today.

I honestly can't figure out the grip "problem". I sit at a computer all day long and my hands are probably as soft as they've ever been, yet I don't think about the checkering at all and have no ill effects from shooting a couple hundred rounds per range session.

I'd be more confident judging the reliability of a firearm based on what I learn here at TFL than I would by how a range gun functioned.

Shake
 
I think there's a bit of a misunderstanding. I'm not saying that the USP is an unreliable gun, or a poorly-made gun, or is inferior to a Bryco or something. I'm just saying that I came away from my (very limited) USP experience very disappointed after all of the hype.

I understand that a range gun rental is supposed to allow someone to think about how the ergonomics of the pistol is in their hands. But suppose you rented a potential pistol and it jammed every single round? I don't think you'd come away from it saying, "Well, it was just a rental gun - if I buy one, it'll surely be 100% reliable!"

As far as the truck example ... to be honest, I would feel antsy buying the same year/make truck if my buddy's truck engine seized at 80k. If it seized at 180k, I don't think I'd be as leery (hey, my dad's Nissan was pushing 300k when it threw a rod, my mom's Mitsubishi Galant was about 275k when my brother rear ended another car and wrecked it.. but it still ran, as a neighbor bought it, fixed the body, and sold it to a friend of his! My own Honda is at about 165k.. a truck seizing at 80k isn't confidence-inspiring).

If you know of one that can withstand thousands of rounds of range ammo, lack of routine cleaning, a few bad reloads, etc., and still have no failures. . . let me know. I'll buy one today.

The reputation of the USP lead me to believe that it was such a gun.

Oh well. Regardless, I acknowledge that the USP is a fine gun. It may suit many people marvelously. I know that on my shopping list of pistols, though, the USP isn't exactly on the short list.

What's the saying about first impressions?
 
Hey Foxy,

Not trying to come off as a jerk (after re-reading my post above, I may have).

Not to beat a dead horse, but one jam in a rental gun wouldn't affect my opinion of ANY gun. If it so bothers you, then so be it. I can understand that.

I own a Toyota truck that has been as reliable as any vehicle I've ever been around. 134K and not a dime for anything other than routine maintenance. I could spend five minutes at Google and find plenty of horror stories about Toyota trucks, but I have found them to be reliable when cared for. I'll keep buying them. If you want to, you'll find Mitsubishis, Nissans, and Hondas that have fried their engines at low mileage.

The moral of the story is to do your research and pick what you like. If you let one jam in a rental gun determine what you buy, you'd be better off NOT renting guns.

I believe the USPs put through the torture tests you read about were in very good condition prior to undergoing the tests.

What is on your short list (no flames, I promise :D ).

Shake
 
Shakes,

You didn't come off as a jerk, so don't worry. I just felt the desire to further explain my position :)

The thing is, though, a Toyota, Nissan, etc, hasn't failed on me personally. (For some reason, I kind of assumed the 80k truck was an old Chevy like the one my friend drives, that is in the process of falling apart). They may fail on other people (no doubt, or else who in their right mind would drive anything else?), but the fact that I have hands on experience with them counts for a lot more in my eyes.

It's like my AO 1911. According to all the opinons on this board, it should be tied to a chain and used as an anchor. It's yet to jam on me, and seems pretty accurate.

I think I would forgive jams in rental guns. I rented a Beretta 92 at the same range session that jammed literally every 2 or 3 rounds.. yet I still want one. Why? It fit my hand well, didn't chafe it like mad, and despite that one pistol's performance, I have enough experience with other Beretta M92's to show me that that one is a fluke. Unfortunately, the USP has a sample size of one, and from the way my hands felt, I am not eager to increase that sample size.

My short list?
1. Bushmaster/RRA AR-15
2. Beretta M92FS
3. Kel-Tec P32
4. Glock 19
5. Desert Eagle (to answer the inevitable - because I have a strange fascination for a really big freakin gun - ideally, at the $650 price tag CDNN has/had them for!)
6. M1 Garand
7. Remington 700 PSS
8. Remington 870

I figure I should be rather old and gray by the time I manage to aquire most of these, if they are still aquireable.
 
Foxy,

Understood.

Your short list has about three guns I have (or very similar), and a couple more that are on my short list (going to have to change the name to "list" soon since it keeps expanding!).

Would love to have an AR, just can't seem to save long enough to get one. Every time I get close, I find another handgun I just HAVE to have.

My immediate must haves are:

SIG 220ST
Kahr K9 Elite 98

Shake
 
I have an HKUSP40C, and a G27

I love them both. To be honest, the HK will digest anything. I've had some problems with the Glock and CCI Blazer ammo. I will be keeping both for a long long time.
 
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