Newbie seeks your experience in reloading .223/5.56
- Thread starter Frankly
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chris in va
New member
No need for an expensive crimp remover, just get a $2 chamfer bit and chuck it in a cordless drill. Buzz off the crimp, done.
I use Unique case lube. It's similar if not the same as silicone grease and a small tub lasts years.
Careful with the resizing die setting. Follow directions to be sure the shoulder doesn't get smushed.
Some stick powders can 'bridge' across the tiny 22 caliber opening, dumping powder everywhere. This will especially happen if/when you smear a bit of lube inside the case mouth.
I really don't stress over exact case length. I've had no problems with length between 1.735 and 1.765 in my AR. They all function fine.
I use Unique case lube. It's similar if not the same as silicone grease and a small tub lasts years.
Careful with the resizing die setting. Follow directions to be sure the shoulder doesn't get smushed.
Some stick powders can 'bridge' across the tiny 22 caliber opening, dumping powder everywhere. This will especially happen if/when you smear a bit of lube inside the case mouth.
I really don't stress over exact case length. I've had no problems with length between 1.735 and 1.765 in my AR. They all function fine.
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Jim Watson
New member
There are a lot of varmint and SWAT loads out there with expansive bullets that will gratify you better than military ball. I suggest you ask what rifle ammo your local PD uses and buy some for gunfighting.
Some sources recommend you stick to factory loads for self defense to avoid legal entanglements. Also to ensure quality.
Some sources recommend you stick to factory loads for self defense to avoid legal entanglements. Also to ensure quality.
In my 22 years of LE, we used M193 ball exclusively in our AR-15s.
I was not aware of any agencies that used anything else.
Our military ran up a pretty good kill rate all over the world with them, expecially the higher velocity M193.
Our Specops troops are allowed to use anything they wish to use. They use M193 or M855. Some SEAL (Marcus Luttrell, for example) snipers use the commercial 77 grain bullets due to better long range accuracy even though it doesn't have as much stopping power as M193.
I was not aware of any agencies that used anything else.
Our military ran up a pretty good kill rate all over the world with them, expecially the higher velocity M193.
Our Specops troops are allowed to use anything they wish to use. They use M193 or M855. Some SEAL (Marcus Luttrell, for example) snipers use the commercial 77 grain bullets due to better long range accuracy even though it doesn't have as much stopping power as M193.
I defer to your experience on M193 as I have never used it.
Respectfully, we're gonna have to agree to disagree with regard to M855. This round is widely known both inside and outside of the military to have less than ideal terminal performance. It was developed to penetrate light armor and does that exceedingly well. But it tends to make a hole you can see daylight through. This is not what you want to do when your objective is to drop someone where they stand. You mentioned snipers. All the snipers I know of use/used OTM rounds, same thing LE typically uses, and the same thing civilians such as myself load up in magazines with the letters SD painted across them. Never M855. One shot, one kill... same objective. Also, there is the issue of collateral damage. No LE agency in its right mind would issue m855 except maybe for SWAT team use. You simply cannot risk a round going cleanly through the perp and continuing on to kill a baby in a crib three blocks away... I think this side-topic begs for its own thread, so I will say no more about it here. If you want to continue this line of discussion elsewhere, please let me know and we can take that up.... thanks for your insights on the questions of the thread.
Respectfully, we're gonna have to agree to disagree with regard to M855. This round is widely known both inside and outside of the military to have less than ideal terminal performance. It was developed to penetrate light armor and does that exceedingly well. But it tends to make a hole you can see daylight through. This is not what you want to do when your objective is to drop someone where they stand. You mentioned snipers. All the snipers I know of use/used OTM rounds, same thing LE typically uses, and the same thing civilians such as myself load up in magazines with the letters SD painted across them. Never M855. One shot, one kill... same objective. Also, there is the issue of collateral damage. No LE agency in its right mind would issue m855 except maybe for SWAT team use. You simply cannot risk a round going cleanly through the perp and continuing on to kill a baby in a crib three blocks away... I think this side-topic begs for its own thread, so I will say no more about it here. If you want to continue this line of discussion elsewhere, please let me know and we can take that up.... thanks for your insights on the questions of the thread.
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sawdustdad
New member
Not to get too far off topic, but I thought the purpose of military Ball ammo was to wound, thereby pulling 3 people out of the battle, one wounded and two to tend to him. Or is that an old Wive's tale?
As to reloading .223/5.56, it costs me brass=.10, primer=.04, powder =.08, bullet=.10 adds up to $0.32/round. Can shave a few cents off that if you shop carefully.
Once fired brass is $100/1000 everywhere, $168/8lb of powder, $50/500 Xtreme plated bullets. Primers are less than $40/1000 most places.
Not counting the brass, it's $.22/round. +/-
Based on this, it makes sense to buy the ammo in bulk if you can get it for under ~$325/1000. Then reload that brass.
It takes me about 6 hours to process and reload 500 rounds of .223 including removing crimps. I'm using a single stage press and hand priming tool.
As to reloading .223/5.56, it costs me brass=.10, primer=.04, powder =.08, bullet=.10 adds up to $0.32/round. Can shave a few cents off that if you shop carefully.
Once fired brass is $100/1000 everywhere, $168/8lb of powder, $50/500 Xtreme plated bullets. Primers are less than $40/1000 most places.
Not counting the brass, it's $.22/round. +/-
Based on this, it makes sense to buy the ammo in bulk if you can get it for under ~$325/1000. Then reload that brass.
It takes me about 6 hours to process and reload 500 rounds of .223 including removing crimps. I'm using a single stage press and hand priming tool.
Dad,
Your math suggests I should stop buying the green tips... it costs $466 per thousand plus tax. Only problem is, the stuff is so much fun to shoot. We take steel I-beams out to the desert and line them up to see how many it takes to stop one of these armor piercing rounds.
Your math suggests I should stop buying the green tips... it costs $466 per thousand plus tax. Only problem is, the stuff is so much fun to shoot. We take steel I-beams out to the desert and line them up to see how many it takes to stop one of these armor piercing rounds.
Well, being a life long machinist/mechanic when I first encountered primer crimps I just went to my tool box and got a 60 degree countersink and cut the crimps out. 20 years later I still use this method. Some will suggest swagers/reformers/reamers (many $$$ tools that do no better than my $10.00 countersink), but I like K.I.S.S.; put the counter sink in a drill, touch the case's primer pocket against the turning counter sink for 1.375 seconds and crimp is gone...
http://www.mcmaster.com/#countersinks/=wzrjfn
FWIW; I don't count pennies for my hobbies, I reload because I like to...
sawdustdad
New member
Wow. It's been taking me more like 2.076 seconds per case. I need to change my countersink. Must be getting dull.
Me neither. Took me about 10 minutes to figure out what it costs me...but thought the result was interesting.
Flapjack23
New member
Your cost estimate is exactly why I am buying 193 for .33 each shipped. Shoots reasonably accurate and is relatively cheap. Very easy to stock up for whatever reason u choose (politics, teotwaswki, civil war, zombies, or just cause you want to). I can use the brass and build what I want for precision puropses and have the best of both worlds for another .25 each and a little time and components.
OP, while I have not reloaded for 5.56/.223 as yet, if you pick out the bullet that you want you should be able to find the loading info on some of the powder manufacturers websites. I personally have a few reloading manuals and they all have different powder choices for bullet weights/styles. I would start with the tip first and work from there.
WVMountaineer
New member
Frankly, to remove the military crimp you could ream. It has a tendency to make the pockets lopsided though if done to heavy or incorrectly. I use the Swagger now. Much quicker.
I bought a kit From CH4D that swags large and small crimped PP's and also has a priming arm, that in a pinch, could be used to prime shells. Kinda slow priming but, it works good as a third or fourth option for priming. I would highly recommend going to you tube and typing in CH4D swag kit and watching how quickly it does away with the crimped primer pockets. Affordably inexpensive too.
About the only difference in bottle neck cartridges and straight necked is the lube. Don't lube the necks either. God Bless
I bought a kit From CH4D that swags large and small crimped PP's and also has a priming arm, that in a pinch, could be used to prime shells. Kinda slow priming but, it works good as a third or fourth option for priming. I would highly recommend going to you tube and typing in CH4D swag kit and watching how quickly it does away with the crimped primer pockets. Affordably inexpensive too.
About the only difference in bottle neck cartridges and straight necked is the lube. Don't lube the necks either. God Bless
sawdustdad
New member
there have been a bunch of threads on preferred powders for .223. I like ball powders for the way they meter. W748 or BLC (2). But I have used 4895, 3031 and 4195. For my Ruger No. 1, W748 is the most accurate.
I use H335. That's similar (some say identical) to W-W 748.
This powder was developed by Olin-Winchester specifically for the 5.56X45 round. It works extremely well for the 7.62X51 as well.
H335 is military WC844. MilSpec.
All of my practice ammo is MilSpec.
MilSurp cases
Remington #7 1/2 primers
Remington or Winchester 55 grain FMJ (ball M193) bullets
H335 Powder (MilSpec WC844)
I can zero my ACOG with my handloads, and it will be right on the mark with military issue M193.
This powder was developed by Olin-Winchester specifically for the 5.56X45 round. It works extremely well for the 7.62X51 as well.
H335 is military WC844. MilSpec.
All of my practice ammo is MilSpec.
MilSurp cases
Remington #7 1/2 primers
Remington or Winchester 55 grain FMJ (ball M193) bullets
H335 Powder (MilSpec WC844)
I can zero my ACOG with my handloads, and it will be right on the mark with military issue M193.
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Jim Watson
New member
H335 is a good one. It is a ball process powder (Hodgdon "Spherical") and meters well. That way you don't get the urge to weigh powder charges for plinking and blasting.
I run my solid carbide countersink at around 1150 RPM and apply 1.75 lbs. of force on the case. But then I'm using my B&D cordless drill right handed from a sitting position. I suppose if I were standing I would have a different attack angle and the results would be different. Also I listen to Do-Wop when doing case prep., which has a different affect than if I played BB King or Janice Joplin...
This is an old wive's tale. Why did it come around ? Well, 5.56 is, to a degree, less effective than .308/.30-06 that it was replacing; someone concocted this as an excuse. Reality is that the move to 5.56 was more of a bean counter move; the money would have been spent more wisely by training soldiers to shoot better and be more conserving with ammo.
Why is the fallacy about taking people out of battle utter BS ? Sure, you could suggest that we were shooting to wound; that it would take more folks off the battlefield if you just wounded them; but why on earth would you want to face the same combatants again and again. War: by definition is best described as letting your enemy DIE for his country or cause. It's a war of attrition; letting their wounded live so you can fight them another day is plain foolish. It's like giving someone a second chance to kill you ; "hey, you missed me the last time, do you want another try at it ? " Nope, your best odds are when you have seasoned troops firing at the other side with fresh replacements & zero experience.