newbie seeks advice on primer pocket cleaning
- Thread starter Frankly
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polyphemus
New member
I would be grateful if this discussions was about the technical details of primer pocket readiness for reloading and not about my "needs".
Here's the thing if the primer pocket being loaded with carbon affects accuracy
then this is an issue regardless of arm,I can't be certain that it has anything to
do with it but if you do then why not give the same attention to both.As far as
this goes the old saying applies: garbage in garbage out.
No, I am not saying it absolutely makes a difference in accuracy. The question was asked and the way I read the question was "why would some do it for rifle and not for pistol?" and my view is that SOME folks do a fractional volume of rifle loading than pistol and it's an entirely different operation that requires different tasks and chores and in most cases, far lower round count.
I've rolled over 4,500 handgun rounds in the last three months and I'm not even a competition handgun shooter. For many of us, handguns means lots and lots of rounds.
I do -not- clean pockets on rifle or pistol handloads but the idea that folks loading rifle spend FAR more time on each single piece of brass is simply not a complicated idea and it is also not illogical in any way that handgun needs for accuracy... with fixed sights, a 4" barrel, 6" sighting plane and 12 yards distance to a six-inch steel plate that only takes each shot as PASS OR FAIL... simply does NOT require precision accuracy work that a bottle neck rifle round with a telescopic sight of many hundreds of dollars at a target sitting 100-300 yards or more away... Etc etc etc...
Too much energy burnt on this already.
If anything positive were gained from input here, great!
If someone wants to split hairs and argue about mechanical accuracy that has X tangible value in the real world, have at it.
I've rolled over 4,500 handgun rounds in the last three months and I'm not even a competition handgun shooter. For many of us, handguns means lots and lots of rounds.
I do -not- clean pockets on rifle or pistol handloads but the idea that folks loading rifle spend FAR more time on each single piece of brass is simply not a complicated idea and it is also not illogical in any way that handgun needs for accuracy... with fixed sights, a 4" barrel, 6" sighting plane and 12 yards distance to a six-inch steel plate that only takes each shot as PASS OR FAIL... simply does NOT require precision accuracy work that a bottle neck rifle round with a telescopic sight of many hundreds of dollars at a target sitting 100-300 yards or more away... Etc etc etc...
Too much energy burnt on this already.
If anything positive were gained from input here, great!
If someone wants to split hairs and argue about mechanical accuracy that has X tangible value in the real world, have at it.
Fact is; it's not anywhere near that critical. You make it sound like the residue left behind after a primer fires is ¼ inch thick! It hardly amounts to anything, but it sure does look nasty. The anvil of the new primer will seat just fine on top of it, the new primer will also fire just fine. I saw someone blame the residue for FTF,(failure to fire). It was most likely failure to seat properly, (deep enough).
Those of us that use any of the progressives on the market, the way they're meant to be used, don't clean primer pockets. There just isn't any way to do it without interrupting the cycle. IF you want to call what falls out of my Dillon garbage, then so be it. But be ready to go head-to-head with me with your immaculate primer pockets with the handgun of your choice at whatever discipline you want. I'll bring my best choice, dirty primer pockets and all.
polyphemus
New member
Once again I remove the carbon deposits from primer pockets because if I don't I get high primers.
Having got that out of the way,Philip Sharpe writes in his Complete Guide to Reloading that "..primers leave a hard brittle fouling that is extremely abrasive and this forms a cake in the bottom of the pocket and is inclined to prevent proper seating of primers..." I agree.
Having got that out of the way,Philip Sharpe writes in his Complete Guide to Reloading that "..primers leave a hard brittle fouling that is extremely abrasive and this forms a cake in the bottom of the pocket and is inclined to prevent proper seating of primers..." I agree.
May I respectfully ask what priming device you use that results in high primers? I've used several RCBS presses, a Dillon 550b and 2 different lee hand primers throughout my 20 years of reloading and have never experienced a high primer caused by carbon buildup in the primer pocket......and none of the pockets had ever been cleaned.
polyphemus
New member
A:The device I use to seat the primers is a standard Lee primer arm what caused primer issues however was carbon build up on the bottom of the pockets,it is not my favourite occupation but I don't get high primers anymore
since I started removing the debris.Rifle cases may require more attention to
detail I wouldn't know but if scraping the pockets is what it takes to produce
quality reloads then that's what I'll do.
stagpanther
New member
Amen. Unless somebody provides evidence that it's actually harmful to clean em--I say it's time to deep six this thread.
Snuffy,
When you add car wax to your tumbler:
1. How exactly do you go about doing it?
2. Does it work the same whether you are using cob or walnut?
3. Do you have to clean it off after resizing, and, if so, why?
Your answers to these three questions would be most helpful...
When you add car wax to your tumbler:
1. How exactly do you go about doing it?
2. Does it work the same whether you are using cob or walnut?
3. Do you have to clean it off after resizing, and, if so, why?
Your answers to these three questions would be most helpful...
condor bravo
New member
You will no doubt be receiving several responses to the above.
With tumbler running but no brass added, just pour "some", like several capfills, directly into tumbler from bottle. Note that the polish will immediately clump-up with the media but it needs to be distributed throughout. To speed up this process insert a hand into the tumbler and use the fingers to break up the clumps as the tumbler is still running. Should work equally as well for walnut or corncob. I only use walnut so some other responder can verify corncob. No residue to remove after tumbling. Tumbling times will vary considerably depending on who you talk to, or who responds. Much can depend on whether tumbling rifle or handgun brass. Rifle brass usually taking less time since there is usually less powder blowback to remove. I find one hour satisfactory for most rifle brass tumbling. Replinish polish as you think necessary; perhaps after 10 or 12 tumblings.
With tumbler running but no brass added, just pour "some", like several capfills, directly into tumbler from bottle. Note that the polish will immediately clump-up with the media but it needs to be distributed throughout. To speed up this process insert a hand into the tumbler and use the fingers to break up the clumps as the tumbler is still running. Should work equally as well for walnut or corncob. I only use walnut so some other responder can verify corncob. No residue to remove after tumbling. Tumbling times will vary considerably depending on who you talk to, or who responds. Much can depend on whether tumbling rifle or handgun brass. Rifle brass usually taking less time since there is usually less powder blowback to remove. I find one hour satisfactory for most rifle brass tumbling. Replinish polish as you think necessary; perhaps after 10 or 12 tumblings.
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What condor bravo said. With the addition that I use corn cob as the media. Nu Finish is a car polish that contains wax that gets deposited on the brass case. This is a very small, very thin coating that helps brass in a couple of ways. It is slippery, aids in sliding the brass while it sizes, and it protects the brass from tarnish and corrosion. Bright shiny cases stay bright and shiny while in storage.
Other tumbler additives like the midway polish also has some wax in it, but it has a mild abrasive as well. It cuts the tarnish that is making the brass dull but is a soft abrasive that will not hurt dies or barrel steel. People hear abrasive, they immediately think of grinder wheels or carborundum hard abrasives. There are different grade,(hardness) of abrasives.
Flitz makes a brass tumbler additive that works really well. I suspect it too has some wax in it. An automotive rubbing compound also makes a good tumbler additive. It has a mild abrasive only hard enough to cut the dull paint on the cars finish, just the right hardness for a brass tumbler. It also has wax in it.
All of these are liquid that has to be mixed into the media. As CB said, let the tumbler run for as long as it needs to run to get the clumps of wax and media to dissipate and mix in. I add it slowly while it's running WITHOUT brass in it, but with enough media for a batch of brass. As for when to add more, well if it stops working as quickly that's when.
Another trick for dry tumblers is to put a used dryer softener sheet in with the media and polish. The makeup of the dryer sheet is a sort of a mesh that will collect the black dirt that always accumulates in the media. A chunk of paper towel can also be used. Cut it up so it will circulate with the brass. This extends the life of the media.
Other tumbler additives like the midway polish also has some wax in it, but it has a mild abrasive as well. It cuts the tarnish that is making the brass dull but is a soft abrasive that will not hurt dies or barrel steel. People hear abrasive, they immediately think of grinder wheels or carborundum hard abrasives. There are different grade,(hardness) of abrasives.
Flitz makes a brass tumbler additive that works really well. I suspect it too has some wax in it. An automotive rubbing compound also makes a good tumbler additive. It has a mild abrasive only hard enough to cut the dull paint on the cars finish, just the right hardness for a brass tumbler. It also has wax in it.
All of these are liquid that has to be mixed into the media. As CB said, let the tumbler run for as long as it needs to run to get the clumps of wax and media to dissipate and mix in. I add it slowly while it's running WITHOUT brass in it, but with enough media for a batch of brass. As for when to add more, well if it stops working as quickly that's when.
Another trick for dry tumblers is to put a used dryer softener sheet in with the media and polish. The makeup of the dryer sheet is a sort of a mesh that will collect the black dirt that always accumulates in the media. A chunk of paper towel can also be used. Cut it up so it will circulate with the brass. This extends the life of the media.
If lube gets inside the brass it will corrupt the powder.
It is also never going to be a good idea (outside of .22LR) to have lube present on the outside of brass that you intend to shoot. One more thing to much up the normal firing process inside a chamber FULL of fire and brimstone.
I use Imperial to lube bottle neck rifle brass for sizing. After doing so, the whole big pile of sized brass goes in to the old school vibratory tumbler with corn media for just 15-20 minutes to clean the Imperial off the brass. Simple, quick, easy.
It is also never going to be a good idea (outside of .22LR) to have lube present on the outside of brass that you intend to shoot. One more thing to much up the normal firing process inside a chamber FULL of fire and brimstone.
I use Imperial to lube bottle neck rifle brass for sizing. After doing so, the whole big pile of sized brass goes in to the old school vibratory tumbler with corn media for just 15-20 minutes to clean the Imperial off the brass. Simple, quick, easy.
stagpanther
New member
3....2....1...
condor bravo
New member
Yes, necessary to wipe case lube off rifle brass after SIZING (exception when using sprayon type case lube), but with tumbling it is not an issue at all. No residue or excess polish at all to remove. Didn't notice that question 3 referred to resizing rather than tumbling. But if you are reloading for handgun only and not rifle, you will probably end up not lubing those cases at all. Some say that they do lube handgun cases but in the same breath will probably say that it is really not necessary.
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Well my universal decapper arrived today, and following today's feedback I checked prices on Internet and found Home Depot to be cheapest for the polish. And someone else had said mix it 50/50 (or somewhere thereabouts) with odorless mineral spirits, so grabbed a jug while I was there. Anything I'm missing?
Condor,
Let me clarify that I am loading only straight-walled shells, at least for now. I have a dozen or so long guns, but I am primarily a side-arm sort of guy.
I don't mind putting a capful of polish and a capful of mineral spirits in the media before I add the shells; if it gets them cleaner for inspection and allows me to resize with less arm fatigue, I'm there.
But I am reading conflicting messages with regard to what happens next. Am I supposed to tumble them again to get the polish off? That seems to contradict the idea some have shared that they want their used brass shinier than new.
Me, I don't give a rat's hind end whether my shells are shiny enough to use as shot glasses. Heck, even a .45 Colt shell won't hold a whole shot of JD anyway. I am driven by pragmatics (or will be once I figure out what that means). I am just trying to figure out the whats and whys of all this before I get too deeply entrenched and find I shoulda been doing something different all along.
All productive feedback is appreciated.
There are a few late comers to the thread who seem more interested in picking fights or putting people down. To those, it would be nice if you just skip past threads that you don't have anything positive to say about...
Thanks again all.
Let me clarify that I am loading only straight-walled shells, at least for now. I have a dozen or so long guns, but I am primarily a side-arm sort of guy.
I don't mind putting a capful of polish and a capful of mineral spirits in the media before I add the shells; if it gets them cleaner for inspection and allows me to resize with less arm fatigue, I'm there.
But I am reading conflicting messages with regard to what happens next. Am I supposed to tumble them again to get the polish off? That seems to contradict the idea some have shared that they want their used brass shinier than new.
Me, I don't give a rat's hind end whether my shells are shiny enough to use as shot glasses. Heck, even a .45 Colt shell won't hold a whole shot of JD anyway. I am driven by pragmatics (or will be once I figure out what that means). I am just trying to figure out the whats and whys of all this before I get too deeply entrenched and find I shoulda been doing something different all along.
All productive feedback is appreciated.
There are a few late comers to the thread who seem more interested in picking fights or putting people down. To those, it would be nice if you just skip past threads that you don't have anything positive to say about...
Thanks again all.
condor bravo
New member
No, not at all necessary to tumble twice. Once only and then on with the usual sequence of sizing, etc. Some do want to tumble for what to others seems to be for an excessive amount of time. One thing everyone needs to keep in mind when interpreting responses is that rifle reloaders may fall into the trap of responding to questions like they all pertain to rifle reloading, and handgun reloaders, well, do the same thing as if all questions referred to handgun reloading. Sometimes that can result in questionable or conflicting responses. Since you are starting out with handgun rounds, would suggest tumble for a desired amount of time and then continuing without lubricating. Keep the steps to as few as possible and at the same time obtain a high quality product.