Newbie Reloading Questions

A

AzMandella

Inactive
Just a quick intro here. I am going to start reloading. I have been shooting for 40 yrs since the age of ten. I have been in the steel and machining business for 30 yrs so close tolerance work is nothing new to me. What I want to do is load match quality rifle ammo. And bulk handgun ammo

I have already decided on some equipment but have a few questions. I'm also open to suggestions if my choice of equipment may be improved.

The equipment I have decided on is as listed

Hornaday Iron Press single stage
Bench Grade Powder measure
Tumbler
Balance beam scale
Cam Lock Trimmer
Shell holder set
Reloading Book

Obviously there are other peripheral things I need but my main questions are this.

Should I hand prime or press prime ?

And to start the Brand wars. What brand or mixture of dies would you choose for match grade 5.56 ?
 
I can only answer the priming thing.

My entire reloading adventure has been done with the Lee Hand Press. It comes with the excellent Ram Prime which can be used on a standard bench press. I've tried three different hand primers but they either flip primers sideways or don't have the same 'feel' and leverage needed when seating various primer types.
 
Priming answer also:

Especially for rifle priming, recommend the RCBS auto priming tool. This bolts to the bench and definitely eases the priming process with tight seating primers. It is manually operated of course and the "automatic" feature will be quickly noticed. It comes with all attachments for both small and large primers. Standard shell holders are used. At the time of this writing, MidwayUSA had them advertised for $72, product # 457599.
 
Everyone is going to say that what they use is best.

re: Priming. Hand priming is faster unless you are doing bulk pistol loading on a progressive like a Dillon.

re: Dies. Any American-made brand are fine. There is no "best", just more expensive.

Get a copy of Lyman #49 and read the Beginner's section.
 
Most all dies are capable of loading top quality ammo if you do your part and pay attention to the details.

There are competition dies available from several sources, mainly Redding, Forster, Hornady and RCBS. You need to research each and its features and decide for your self which are BS and which are a benefit. Also, I would urge you to look into the Lee Collet Sizing Dies and they are capable of producing zero bullet to cartridge case runout.

I have loaded such ammo with standard dies, but I have been handloading for right at 53 years now and have been thru most all of it, some with success and some with failures. Plus, this was before AL Gored invented the internet.

In competions and target shooting, there are more "tools" that you will need as well as what you have mentioned. Do some research and you will learn.

You will learn the methods to the madness as you gain experience and by reading a lot on the subject.
 
Reloading dies are a matter of personal preference as far as I'm concerned. I have three different brands of dies on my LNL-AP right now, they won't stay that way but that's what I wanted the last time I ran it.
As far as which are the best?

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder, so I really can't answer that. They all work.

Redding, Forster, and RCBS seem to be the most popular for higher end stuff from what I have read here, but again, it depends what you are looking to do.

Like Dufus said the Lee collet sizing die may be the best for it's intended purpose.
 
Bass Ackwards

IMHO you have your process bass ackwards. Turn your list upside down and buy just ONE thing first - a good reloading manual (actually more than just one manual would be even better, but start with either the Lyman or Lee Modern Reloading (I personally suggest the Lee manual). Get the book and READ EVERYTHING from the index through to the first parts of the actual load data. Read even the chapters that you do not think you need - you DO need to get the information to begin understanding all the salient points and safety issues of this hobby. THEN you can begin to create a list of stuff to buy and ask intelligent questions from more experienced folks.

More importantly, only then can you hope to begin to sort out the intelligent ANSWERS from the crap you will see from the more prevalent internet goobers. These forums are great sources for both good information and really dumb comments.
 
What I use is irrelevant so I would suggest you get a copy of The ABCs of Reloading. It'll show how to reload and what equipment is needed. You can then decide on which methods and equipment are suited to your reloading needs... ;)

I started reloading pre-web and used vendor catalogs to read up on/compare reloading equipment. Also my reloading manuals, explaining methods, gave me info on the equipment needed. Combining these two (or 4) I was able to determine which equipment/tools I needed and can't remember purchasing anything not necessary (except a 45 ACP case trimmer which has never been used in the 25 years I've owned it! :p)...
 
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I have several priming methods.

One is a Lee Ram Prime setup. The feel when seating primers is very good because the press handle is typically at about 90 degrees to the ram, so the leverage is good. The only negative is just handling and placing each primer by hand in the primer cup before seating. A primer turning tray is useful in this scenario, but I did without one for a long time. You want to keep contaminants like case lube off your fingers when handling the primers.

Another I use on my Lee Classic Cast press is their safety prime. At the top of the stroke when the old primer is being pressed out, you swing the priming arm into position and it places a primer in the primer cup, seating it when the ram reaches the bottom of it travel. Very quick and your fingers don't touch and potentially contaminate the primers.

Finally I use a RCBS hand held unit, which will allow me to set in front of the TV with the stuff in my lap and prime away. Quick, good feel, but probably a little slower overall than decapping on the upstroke and seating primer on the downstroke. When the garage got too cold recently, I grabbed it, the Lee Hand Press, dies, powder and scale and had a ball in the comfort of the warm house.


On the die question, are you reloading for a single bolt action rifle? If so, you might consider neck sizing dies instead of full length sizing dies. The cases would get fire formed for that chamber and accuracy should be better as a result. Also the brass wouldn't be overworked and would last longer. You may not be able to do that if using the same cartridges in more than one gun or an autoloader like an AR.
 
I'll respond with some things that are simply my own opinion, and to you they're just words from a complete stranger.

I think your press is a good choice, that or a Rock Chucker. Ditch that trimmer and go with the RCBS spring tension trimmer. I've tried them all, have actually thrown several in the garbage rather than sell, and have settled on the RCBS as the most accurate and easy to get square case mouths which is extremely important. For priming I never press prime, and like the hand primer that everyone else copied...the Lee hand primer. The powder measure I'd recommend is a Redding bench rest measure...and dont forget a trickler. That measure is accurate enough to repeatably thrown charges but you're talking about accuracy so I trickle my loads so they're exact on my balance beam scale. Don't forget dial calipers. Again, when loading for extreme accuracy your brass is very important, so start with Nosler, Norma or Lapua. Dies, I like Redding personally but RCBS and Hornady make good dies too. Good brass and consistent actions on your press, application of lube, etc are just as important as your choice in dies. For accuracy...consistency and repeatablity are key. And that's all I really have to say about that.
 
Newbie Reloading Questions......

I have already decided on some equipment but have a few questions. I'm also open to suggestions if my choice of equipment may be improved.

The equipment I have decided on is as listed

Hornaday Iron Press single stage
Bench Grade Powder measure
Tumbler
Balance beam scale
Cam Lock Trimmer
Shell holder set
Reloading Book
Click to expand...

What kind of powder measure is that? I would get the Hornady for pistol and a powder dispenser for rifle. On a tight budget, I would get a powder trickler and a used RCBS 5-10 or 10-10 scale. I would also get check weights. They can be a real help.

Obviously there are other peripheral things I need but my main questions are this.

Should I hand prime or press prime ?

And to start the Brand wars. What brand or mixture of dies would you choose for match grade 5.56 ?
Click to expand...

I would press prime. I would also use Hornady dies. They are real slick to setup or clean. They are a great design. When I set them up right, they make great ammo. I've had some small struggles with other brands.

Also, I would ditch the cam-lock trimmer idea and get a Wilson. The Wilson is the best out there before you get into the big money brands.
 
Loading for precision rifle and bulk handgun are 2 different processes. And when you say precision .223Rem, do you mean 200 or 600 yards? Lets say 600 yards, now you are looking at brand new high quality brass, like StarLine, re-sizing, trimming and cleaning the primer pocket, weighing every case, hand priming with Federals, high quality bullets, like Hornady SP, measuring bullet diameters and weighing each bullet, powder measure by trickle charge, micrometer dies, ie, all single operations for precision ammo. Bulk pistol, cast/moly/coated lead bullets on a progressive and crank away. Absolute best way to start is find someone at your shooting club who has been loading forever and have him help your setup your press.

image37165.jpg
 
I'm a benchrest shooter 308 caliber. Priming, I uniform all my primer pockets so all are same spec. depth, then seat with the RCBS Ram primer, attached to the press. Dies, any of the brand names will do the job for sizing F/L. Seating , I found the competition seating die with a standard F/L sizing die makes the straightest reloads, runout will average .001 I like RCBS for the standard dies & Redding for the competition seating die. Tumbler, l have been reloading for 25+ years, l just changed cleaning brass from dry tumbling to wet with stainless steel pins. Cleans brass inside & out even primer pockets. Makes fired brass look like new. Your 5.56 is a AR platform, full size to .002 headspace, trim your cases.003 back from max. I trim every firing, all cases are exact in every way. For accuracy every round should be as close to exact as possible. Hope I Helped.
 
Welcome to TFL

The OP said:
And to start the Brand wars. What brand or mixture of dies would you choose for match grade 5.56 ?
Click to expand...

Dies ? With all do respect to others that say Lee collet die or neck only die . I recommend against that . Seeing how you are loading 5.56 which to me says auto loader and likely AR platform .

You will want to FL(full length) size all cases . As for specific dies . I use Redding bushing dies for all my match grade rifle loading including for my match service rifle in 223 Wylde . That being said a good quality set of standard dies will do the job quite well for an auto loader like the AR .

A beam scale is likely what you want . Most guys loading for match quality prefer weighing each charge for consistency so a "powder measure" is not needed . Redding or Dillon would be my first choices with RCBS a close 2nd for beam scales . If you end up loading small stick or ball powders . A powder measure can be used with good results . You will still need a scale to confirm the powder measures throws . I set of check weights is always good idea and I use mine every time I load http://www.midwayusa.com/product/493216/rcbs-standard-scale-check-weights-605-grains

I like my Lyman universal case trimmer http://www.midwayusa.com/product/435802/lyman-universal-carbide-case-trimmer-kit-with-9-pilots This trimmer trims to with in .001 every time and trims very square . This pic shows the cases stood on the mouths . It they were not square the heads would shift from side to side . They are straight down the line . FWIW if you turn the cases over you can do the same test to see if your heads are square as well .
GC3WxT.jpg


I use the Honandy LnL single stage press which is different then there new iron press . Either way I would recommend the Redding competition shell holders to get very consistently sized cases . My LnL press has quite a bit of press/linkage deflection and using the competition shell holders removes all of it . How the iron press works in that regard I have no info on .
http://www.midwayusa.com/product/35...r-set-10-17-remington-204-ruger-223-remington

Manuals : Lyman 49th and any of the bullet manufacturers you plan to use . You should have at least two , three is better but you can use official online data as your third .

I should note that my suggestions are not must haves . Just things I've found to work well for me . If you have any questions about any specifics please feel free to ask . I could have went in to greater detail as to why some of those things are important to me but felt the post could get a bit long winded .
 
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If you're just starting out, hand priming is best. It will force you to look at the brasame and notice things that you wouldn't automatically question.

Dies are personal preference. I have RCBS, Hornady, and Lyman. I like the RCBS best. I hate my Lyman dies but still use them. To me the quality just doesn't seem to be there.

Get 3 different loading manuals. It used to be you could rely on just 1 or 2 but with the limits on powder, primers, and bulletshe never aligning like you need, you will find that you will end up referencing all 3 at one time or another.

One thing I don't see is case lube on your list. To me this is as important as the manuals. If you don't get the right stuff or use it correctly, your reloading will come to a screeching hault. I have found RCBS case slick is what I like best. Many swear by hornady but every case I've gotten stuck has been on .223 using hornady.

I went with a Cadillac and got the RCBS digital scale. Overkill yes but oh well. Balance beam is just fine. I still have a brand new lyman digital scale in the box is have never used. I like the RCBS.

I have 2 presses, a Lyman turret press and a hornady lnl. The turret press was good to learn on. You can use it as a single stage or multiple stage. I would recommend this to anyone starting out. You learn the basics then incorporate the multiple stages later on when you are more comfortable. The Lyman turret press kit has everything you need to get started and is a good quality set. You won't outgrow it because it's great for small batches or working new loads. The hornady lnl is great and is my primary press. There is a learning curve when it comes to the autoprogressive so be sure you are confident before you take that step. I usually load 2-3k of .223 on it per set up. Anything under 50-100 I use my turret press. A lot depends on the caliber of what I'm loading.

Get a Harbor Freight Tumblr and build a hush box out of old wood and carpet. It will save you money. There is no reason to waste money there. I also built a sifting screen out of hardware cloth and some old wood. I use a small craft tote to set it on, it works good.

Nitrite gloves...wear them. You're dealing with lead and some not so nice residues. Put a new dryer sheet if you tumble with corn cob or walnut it will keep the dust down. DO NOT BREATH THE DUST. For some people this is not obvious.

Read everything you can and be skeptical of what you read. There is a lot of good information out there on blogs and forums, unfortunately some of it is bad. Crimping is an example. A simple action that doesn't sound like a big deal, but if you don't understand what it does and the side effects (it can build pressures higher in the round so you may need to compensate by starting with a low charge and work up) it could cause an unsafe condition.

Lastly ask the "dumb question" they are not so dumb. Many people are happy to help and bounce ideas off of. Getting a good relationship with your local reloading dealer will help. It may cost a buck or two more but the knowledge you can draw off of will save you 10x as much by not making some common mistakes.

Hope this helps.
 
Depends on what you are loading for,
Practice/plinking ammo,
Or tight tolerance accuracy/consistancy ammo.

In both cases,
Case gauges, you CAN stuff the case into resizing dies too deep or too shallow and wind up with out of specification cases.

Don't work the brass anymore than you have too.
Working the cases hardens them, shortens the life span.
Don't compress or expand a bunch, just enough to reload the brass.

Case gauges, primer pocket gauges,
Primer pocket uniforming tools are REAL handy, Especally when you are using the reloaded ammo in more than ONE firearm,
Or your brass comes from more than one firearm.
 
Well it has been a while. I have been very busy with work and also building a tough shed in the back yard so I can empty out a shed that is connected to the house to set up as my reloading room. It will share with my rod building equipment as I build custom fly rods also. During that time I have done quite a bit of reading here and also purchased the ABC's of Reloading and the Lyman 49th Edition Handbook. Now that I have the shed emptied out I have started my work benches . Since I am in the steel business I am building an all steel bench that wraps around the room and total linear footage will be in the 20ft range. It will have 1/4" thick plate for the top and then 1-3/4" hardwood bench tops fastened to it.

So it is getting close to time to order equipment. So after a lot of reading and advise from other threads here I have decided on the following items for reloading precision rifle and handgun.

Hornaday Single Stage Iron Press
Redding 3BR Powder Measure
Redding #2 Scale
Redding Trickler
Redding Dies for .223, 30-06, 9mm, 380 Auto, 40cal
Dillon Pocket Swager
L.E. Wilson trimmer from Sinclair
A combination of manufacturers brushes, primer pocket tools , funnel etc.
Still have not decided on a tumbler yet.

I'm sure I will get some feedback that is good and bad on this list but welcome it either way.
 
I like your list. Just because I have to suggest something I might suggest you take a look at a Redding T7 turret press but this is nitpicking, the press you picked looks just fine. I saw the video and the priming system looks good.

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/588482/redding-t-7-turret-press

As far as a tumbler goes I got a lot of very good service out of a basic tumbler like this:

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/711534/hornady-m-2-case-tumbler-110-volt

Here's a cautionary tale about mixing cases while tumbling you might find either amusing or instructive. It's from a few weeks ago.

http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=573712
 
Thanx Dale. I had been thinking about the T7 turret but decided I would lke to start out with a single stage. I do plan on going to a progressive down the line but am looking at a Dillon for that.
I looked at the Hornaday tumbler but a lot of the reviews said their bowl started cracking in under a year. I have a 5gal bucket full of mixed brass and another half full that I have saved over the years. So there will be a lot of tumbling to do after sorting.

And yes I have read a few threads on mixing brass when tumbling and the problems that may and do occur.
 
Priming wise I now use a RCBS universal priming hadn tool (comes in large and small primer setups, I have one of each)

the lips are spring loaded and automatically adjust to the rim of the round.

I like it a lot, you got good feel and no issue seating them to the bottom.

I have not tried the others other than the priming arm that came with my RCBS press and never like it. It does suit my limited bench space (all my stuff has threaded bolts nut in sets so I can remove and use the bench for other work)

I would also encourage the pickup of an electronic scale. I like the Frankfurt as not only low cost, but it works with a hand trickle (others are not so good with where controls are and reaching the pan on a scale with a dribbler.

I also have a low cost Hornady (I got the Frankfurt into .00 range somehow and I kind of like it even though I know I don't need that fidelity.

If you don't use it for charging (vastly better than the scales in my opinion) its also extremely useful to sort out look alike bullets quickly, weight a case you are not sure has been charged.

I can load to within a tenth with no effort. I will back check to my first round from time to time and if off refine. Experts tell us 3/10 is not an issue and I am much closer than that.

What most people do not like about the low cost scales is the zero drift.

I had a discussion with one guy who finally realized what I was telling him.

Upshot is, while it sounds clunky, its simple.

You weigh the pan, note its weight, and zero it. I write the pan eight on the pan so it acts as a weight check as well.

Then you watch the tare (pan off). if it drifts more than .1 to .2, you simply pout the pan back on, likely will see its drifted .10, .15, .20, .25, and zero it again. Pull it off and you should have your pan weight back.

If its a lot I will back check a case back. Trickle that if needed and go back until they are good again. It sounds clunky but its quick and easy.

Initially you are at least as fast as a balance beam (I keep on around to cross check) and soon you are much faster, and more accurate

If you need to check something you don't have to slide weights around and then back, it weight immediacy and you can cross compare to another round or what you think it is or confirm what it is.

If the scale gets wonky and erratic, you probably have grains of power between the scale and the edge. fine tip screw driver or sharp awl like carefully work out and back to normal.
 
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