Newbie Question

P

Profiler

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Hi All...

I'm a newbie, never exposed to firearms...

But I have come around and decided I need to shoot (well) and own.

I'm in CA and after several lessons, purchased a Beretta 92 FS (Brigadier) Inox.

I have several questions...

1. Is there a more economical ammo to use at the range?

2. Can I really swap out the barrel and practice this firearm as a .22LR?

3. Is there a best/most desirable ammo for practice as opposed to "in the case for when I need it for real."

Is there anything else you would want to pass along to me as a newbie about either shooting or Bereta?

FYI... I will apply for a CCW in Los Angeles. I don't anticipate too many issues, since I am a forensic psych person and deal with psych (or potential psych) patients involved in court cases, every single week...

Thanks on advance... Oh, and if it matters, I am a woman. I tried several weapons before the purchase. I settled on this firearm at the suggestion of my instructor. I shot the .40 better than this one, but all things considered (firing, price, feel...) I went forward with this one... I did a lot of online research (as I will do for even a laundry hamper!)

Joolz

Oh, and ps... I might be interested in swapping out the grips... any good sites I should know about? ;) thx!
 
Congrats! You bought an outstanding pistol, unsurpassed in reliability.

(1) Federal Champion, Federal American Eagle, and Winchester "White Box" (known online as WWB) 115-grain full metal jacket (FMJ) loads are probably the most common range loads, and all will work well.

(2) Yes. You will have to buy the practice kit, which actually consists of a different barrel and slide (and .22 LR magazine). You can buy them direct from Beretta USA: http://www.berettausa.com/en-us/beretta-92-series-22lr-practice-kit/j9022pk/. They are a bit pricey, though. If you're in no rush, register at the Beretta forum (berettaforum.net); every few months, Beretta will give the admins a discount code for the e-store, which all members can use. Before the new year, it was possible to combine different discounts for a total discount of 50% for a limited period of time.

(3) There are a number of excellent self-defense rounds. I use Speer Gold Dot 124-grain +P. Others like Hornady Critical Defense or Critical Duty, Federal HST, a couple of others. You'll have to see if the +P loads produce a noticeable difference in felt recoil for you; I don't notice it, but some do. If you find it bothersome, there are non +P loads of almost all of the best self-defense ammo. Here's a recent thread you may find useful: http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=556343

What kind of grips are you interested in?

Oh, and welcome! :)
 
I used cheap steel cased ammo for plinking before I started reloading my own. Whatever you go with, try to have it be the same weight bullet as your self defense ammo. For example, if your SD ammo is 124gr, I practice with 124gr.
 
Welcome, and great decision to become a firearms owner, as well as receiving training.

Unfortunately, with you living in California, that negates a lot of online vendors that sell ammunition. Almost all of them state that they will not ship to California. I usually purchase 500-1000 rounds at a time of 9mm range ammo, and you will generally get the best value this way.

There are several good brands that will shoot well for range use. I recommend Fiocchi, Federal/American Eagle, MagTech, Winchester, or PMC. I have had good luck with all of these brands over the years.

The Beretta 92FS has a great reputation for reliability. There were some issues early on in the Iraq and Afghanistan theaters with sand, but you are unlikely to deal with those conditions. I would recommend that you work with an individual that is experienced with firearms that can teach you how to properly clean, lubricate, and maintain your firearm. It is extremely important to maintain your weapon to ensure reliability.

Make sure that you use quality factory Beretta or Mec Gar magazines. Many problems with jamming can be attributed to poor quality magazines.

For self defense ammo, I recommend Speer Gold Dot, Winchester Ranger, or Federal HST only. These are both proven law enforcement rounds. These are the only brands that I will carry. I prefer Federal HST 124gr.

As for grips, VZ makes a large assortment of very good quality grips. Hogue also makes nice wood or G10 grips.

Lastly, invest in a good quality holster to accommodate your preferred carry method if approved for a CCW. If a firearm is not comfortable or convenient to carry, you will end up leaving it at home. If you carry a firearm, carry it all the time (where legally permitted), because you cannot predict the time or place that violence may rear it's ugly head.
 
Great choice on a fabulous firearm! Mine eats every kind of ammo that I feed it with no problems. For practice I just use whatever cheapie stuff I can find. You will find that different brands and weights of ammo shoot just a little bit differently.

The other members can hook you up with good self defense ammo. I am a revolver guy.

Welcome to the club! :)
 
IF you can get away with shooting the cheap steel-cased, bi-metal cartridges, I'd stock up on those for practice.

The reason I say "if" is because many indoor ranges prohibit bi-metal bullets, claiming that they can cause sparks, start fires, tear up their backstops, etc. Therefore, they prohibit them. So, before you get online and order a case of 1000 Wolf steel-cased cartridges (or whoever is making them now), make sure you will be permitted to shoot them.
 
Welcome to the sport... You may find yourself at the range more often than you expected. It can be a very fun experience.


As for your questions.

1: Others have listed several good economical brands already. I find PPU ammo to be good quality, some bigger stores sell it repackaged as a store brand, others repackage cheaper stuff. Best to stick with the brands listed here until you gain familiarity. Some people have had problems with Russian made cheap ammo... Though Wolf is considered to be good.

Some pistols do not like steel cased ammo, so try a box before committing if you stray from brass.

Online in bulk is cheapest but if that is not possible, big box sporting goods stores and Wal-Mart are good places to buy ammo at reasonable prices. A bigger gun store that has a lot of stock and business can be cheaper... Shop around.

2: I am not familiar with that option for your pistol, I will let others advise you.

3: Many advise that you use the same weight bullet in practice as you use for defense. This is both yes and no kind of thing.

Diffetent weight bullets do shoot differently, and as distances increase (past ten yards or so) the differences grow more noticeable in the relationship between point of aim and point of impact. So one may shoot a little high compared to another.

Self defense ranges are generally accepted as ten yards or less. As distance grows, it becomes harder to justify deadly force as the only recourse. So differences in point of impact are less pronounced to not noticeable at the ranges you would be practicing at most.

Many people use 147gr for defense, and 147gr practice ammo is harder to find.

Different weights and brands will shoot differently, recoil will feel a little different too. So it will be hard to match your practice ammo to your carry ammo. This is only complicated by the fact that many use +p ammo for carry/defense. (+p is ammo that is loaded to higher pressures, and therefore higher velocity and power, than standard ammo. This tends to higher recoil as well)

As far as defensive ammo... Hollow points of modern design are best. Several good brands we're suggested already. Frangible (rounds designed to shatter when hitting hard surfaces, and break up when hitting a person) are considered marginal at best for effective defense use. Though personal circumstances may cause a need to use them.

Stick with 124gr or more for defense use. (For 9mm) The lighter stuff tends to not be as consistent in testing with meeting the general guidelines for defense ammo.

You can use +p or not. I use Federal HST 124gr standard pressure. I feel the small difference between the standard and +p in this loading are too small to warrant the added recoil.

Winchester makes a "train" and "defend" ammo that are matched. The training ammo is matched as closely as possible to the defensive ammo to make the feel as close as they can. It comes in black boxes and is labels train or defend as appropriate. Though it is not as cheap as other training ammo, the defense round is similar in price as other defense ammo. It is also good quality and performance as well.

It is always a good idea to practice with your chosen defense ammo regularly, at least a magazine worth or so as often as you feel necessary to be familiar with how it shoots.

It is also good to test at least a few boxes of it through your pistol. As all pistols are different, even identical models. You may find that yours does not like "brand A" hollow points, but does like "brand b".


Regular practice is important. I know we can get busy, but try to get to the range once a month at least if possible. Also set aside a little time a couple times a week to practice drawing your pistol from your concealment holster. That helps keep you from fumbling around when presented with a bad situation.

Remember to unload the weapon when practicing drawing and manipulation drills. They make plastic dummy rounds you can use to practice things like reloads without the need to use a live round.

Also keep in mind that repeated reloading of the same live round... Be it for practice, cleaning, or any other reason you need to unload and then reload later... Can/may lead to a condition known as "bullet set back". I have seen it a couple times, but not too often with quality ammo.

This is when the bullet is pushed back into the casing. It can be a small a mount or a larger amount. Either way, when the bullet is pushed back too far it can increase the pressures generated during firing, which can be dangerous. How many times it takes is highly variable, and a visual inspection should show it. Some people rotate their bullets every time when loading and unloading. Others use the ammo they have in the magazine to practice with at the next range trip and use fresh ammo after. Personal choice there.


I hope the long read was not too much for you.
 
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You bought a very nice pistol, and one of the most handsome pistols in production. About the only thing I can think of to tell you about it regards the sight picture: the front dot should cover the intended impact point, rather than lining it up so that the impact sits on top of the dot like some other pistols.

Good practice ammo has been suggested; practice with whatever you can find at a good price. For carry ammo, i am another that uses Gold Dot 124 grain +P. it is very good and fairly widely available. To be completely safe, run a mag or two through your pistol to be sure it feeds reliably. Problems are rare, but it is better to find out at the range than when you are staring at the wrong end of someone else's gun. Some people will tell you to run more than a mag or two through; that's fine if you want, but with such a reliable pistol/ammo combo, you don't need to spend an arm and a leg running hundreds of rounds of expensive ammo to feel good about it.

Regarding the .22LR conversion kit, consider this: 9 mm is the least expensive of the center fire calibers. 22LR has been quite hard to find, and when you do find it, it has sometimes been commanding a higher price than what was usual a couple of years ago. The combination means that the .22 top end for your pistol may take quite a while to be cost effective.
 
Welcome to The Firing Line! You have already shown superior smarts just by posting here.:D

Beretta makes a .22 conversion for the M92.

.22 conversion

And I have no idea if it is legal in California. I mean, if you take a CA-legal gun and replace the slide and barrel with other parts that are not identical, is it still CA-legal?

Bart Noir
 
Hand size

The M92 is a fine gun and sometimes I want to buy another, to get the beefed up slide of the Brigadier version. But it has a large grip and for people who have smaller hands, the reach to the trigger for the first, double action, shot is a challenge. This has been one of the complaints of this gun in military service.

Since women are known to have smaller hands, I suggest that you be sure that you have the "reach" to reliably operate it before you carry it as a self-defense gun. Not doubt you have already considered this issue, but it is important enough for me to mention it.

Bart Noir
 
Welcome to the forum, and to the wonderful world of responsible firearms ownership. It's a big world full of folks happy to provide advice and all kinds of real help in the journey to reaching whatever your goals might be.

I applaud your choice to exercise your right to defend yourself and to apply for a CCW permit in what has to be one of the most 'difficult' states in the Union. Honestly, I wish every responsible person in the country would do the same thing.

If you have the opportunity to get away for weekend personal defense courses, either in CA or elsewhere, I'm confident you'll make discoveries about shooting and about yourself that you may never have imagined. I strongly recommend it--shooting at the range for marksmanship and familiarity with the weapon is wonderful and important--but it can't compare to what you learn shooting under stress and under circumstances where there's a lot going on to distract.

I can't help with your particular weapon--I can only assure you that you've made a choice that means a lot to me, and to everyone in the country who feels they have a responsibility to defend themselves and others--as opposed to accepting their lot in life as victims.

Oh. A final, hopefully useful suggestion. I've been shooting handgun since about 1964. It wasn't until about 2008 that I learned how to shoot. That came from two main sources: 'intermediate' defensive pistol training, and dry firing. Dry fire practice is, in my opinion, the Number One reason I learned more about shooting in the last 5 years than I did in the previous 40. It is more valuable in moving up the learning curve than almost any amount of range shooting...look into it.

The Brian Enos forum and several others will have extensive discussion and provide valuable insight into how to make dry fire practice your pal.

Congratulations and best wishes.
 
Practice with reasonably priced ammo and if it works, use it for carry. But if you choose to use some "high priced spread" for carry, be sure to practice some with it to make sure it works and that it has no surprises in terms of noise, recoil, etc.

Jim
 
Profiler said:
1. Is there a more economical ammo to use at the range?

2. Can I really swap out the barrel and practice this firearm as a .22LR?

3. Is there a best/most desirable ammo for practice as opposed to "in the case for when I need it for real."

FYI... I will apply for a CCW in Los Angeles. I don't anticipate too many issues, since I am a forensic psych person and deal with psych (or potential psych) patients involved in court cases, every single week...
Click to expand...

First off, congratulations, and welcome!

1. Use cheap full metal jacket (FMJ) ammo for practice, and buy in bulk to save money.

I'm fond of buying online from Freedom Munitions - the bullets themselves are pretty cheap, but the big benefit is they have regular promotions where they offer free shipping on orders. Given how heavy ammo is, that adds up quick.

Since you live in CA, LAX Ammo might not be such a bargain for you (since you have to pay sales tax) - but then again, you could always drive to their physical location.

2. It's more than just the barrel, but Beretta does make a .22LR conversion kit for their 92. It's a bit more expensive to buy the conversion kit (rougly $400, vs a new pistol for about $300), but it has the advantage of letting you practice with the same gun. It also doesn't count as a gun so you can buy it with no restrictions in CA. It takes about 30 seconds to swap it out.

3. The amount of practice you get matters more than the brand of ammo, so I'm of the opinion that cheaper is better. I clean my gun after every session, so I don't care about how dirty the ammo is.

When it comes to defensive ammo, the opposite is true - spend the extra money first buying a good brand (Gold Dot, Ranger T, Federal HST, Critical Defense are all great brands), and spend the extra money to test that it feeds and cycles through your gun, and re-test a few defensive rounds after every couple thousand practice rounds just to be sure. Springs wear out, feed ramps get scratched, and things break down in general - it's worth a few extra dollars to be sure.
 
If you want to save $$ on 9mm ammo......cast and load your own!!!!

I know some guns say if you shoot lead ammo it voids the warranty, but I have many friends that do without any problems.

As far as the 22 barrel? Have you tried to buy 22LR ammo?????????? It costs just as much as 9mm FMJ. I can reload 9mm for about 8-9¢ per round. That is comparable to the ridiculous prices of 22LR's today. When you can even find them!!!!!!

I powder coat everything. Fun to do. No need for expensive lubra-matics to grease up the boolits because the PC replaces the grease and eliminates leading. All you need is a coolwhip tub, some coating powder from Harbor Freight, and a convection toaster oven.

Lee molds are very cost-effective and a Lee 4-20 casting pot will last you for years. Mine have!

Just some ideas for your to consider.
 
I agree with everyone who says it is cheaper to reload. However, that is not necessarily an option for everyone and has a little initial expense in order to get setup to reload. Right now, I can actually buy 9mm here for the same price I can reload it (sometimes even cheaper). That's using off the shelf components. Obviously, that gets a lot cheaper if I cast, but casting is not for everyone so it might not be an option (don't they have some ridiculous lead laws in California? I've heard something about that...). Depends on the person and their situation. Ideally, casting and reloading is the way to go for the cheapest ammo, but not everyone can or wants to go that route. Takes additional time and money.

As far as 22LR conversions...they do allow cheaper practice (when you can find 22LR ammo), but in my opinion the practice is not as realistic or effective. With 22LR, impact points/aiming points might be different, and recoil is much different. It can help with trigger control and firearm manipulation, but overall I find it much more effective to train with the actual ammo for the gun. 22LR is always good for cheap plinking (again...when you can find it), but you gotta factor in the initial cost of the conversion kit.
 
Nice thing about rolling your own, you can control the load and recoil. I lite-load all my cals for fun shooting. My wife loves lite loads because she is small and factory load almost dislocate her wrists! She has fired full loads to get a feel of it but for fun......she loves my lite boys.

I have not purchased com bullets in years. I have enough FMJ 30's and 223's to last me for when I need full rifle loads. Most of those are now PC'd cast.

But do what you can. Some areas are not "lead casting " friendly....I know! I have friend in CA.

Whatever you choose, have fun at the range!
 
welcome to the forum and to the shooting sports.

the most economical ammo you are likely to find is full metal jacket, usually 115grains. most ATK brands cost about the same, speer, federal, american eagle, independance, and CCI are all owned by ATK, manufactured and packaged in the same plant 3 miles from my home. all is good quality and affordable, usually about $10-12 dollars a box. however, with californias anti-lead laws I don't know if you can even get anything like that anymore or are allowed to use it at your local range. if not, the guilded metal, polymer/gel core, or frangible bullets are much less cost effective but sadly are the only thing you're allowed to use.

as for converting to 22, no, swapping out a barrel will not convert your 92 into a 22lr. the slide on your average centerfire pistol is too heavy to be cycled by the recoil of a 22 so most 22LR conversion kits require a new slide, barrel, and recoil spring. the 22 ammo is also to small to feed from the 9mm mags so you will also require 22LR specific magazines as well.
 
1. Is there a more economical ammo to use at the range?
Click to expand...

Whatever's cheap at Walmart.

3. Is there a best/most desirable ammo for practice as opposed to "in the case for when I need it for real."
Click to expand...

Whatever's cheap at Walmart.

Is there anything else you would want to pass along to me as a newbie about either shooting or Bereta?
Click to expand...

Oh, gosh. Get instruction in the basics of handgun shooting. Get a good belt. (In this case "whatever's cheap at Walmart" is crap, for our purposes.) Get a good holster (count on going through a few before you find what works for you).

I might be interested in swapping out the grips... any good sites I should know about?
Click to expand...

All in good time. Shoot it a bunch before you make any changes. Like, 1000 rounds.
 
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