NEW WORLD ORDER?

FWIW,

The NWO is revealed in the Book of Revelation. If you ever experience a time in history in which literally millions of people suddenly disappear, there will be a series of events that will quickly follow.

The people who disappear will be those who have placed their faith in Jesus Christ as Savior according to I Thessalonians 4:14,17

"For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep(died) in Jesus will God bring with Him....Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord."

Immediately following this incredible event, according to Revelation Ch. 13 there will be a global one world govt, one world monetary system, and all of the major religions of the world w/unify as an eccumentical system. Because its so lengthy, I will not post the whole chapter and teaching on it w/out request, but the NWO is a system outlined in the Bible 2000 years ago. BTW, In light of Biblical insight this is the most exciting time in all of history. I am against the NWO as all of us are. Nevertheless, as big as these problems are, they are miniscule in comparison to the solutions. :)

------------------
"But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip; and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one." -Jesus Christ (Luke 22:36, see John 3:15-18)



[This message has been edited by EQUALIZER (edited February 01, 2000).]
 
Ironmike and Jack99,

I agree with the vast majority of what you say, however, being that I am a free trading capitalist, I disagree with your assessment of NAFTA/GATT.

It is historically evident that free trade leads to prosperity, wealth and improved technology. The idea that NAFTA has led to loss of jobs in the U.S. is not backed by the employment data. There was no "giant sucking sound" as that idiot Ross Perot predicted. There has been a massive increase in jobs (and I'm not talking burger flipping).

The only danger lies in the possibility that governments will try to manage or control trade to achieve social, labor and environmental policy. Real free trade leads to real prosperity.

The prime example here would be Hong Kong which achieved vast wealth despite NO natural resources and because of a 10% flat income tax rate and truly free trade.

Historically the most advanced societies have been free trade societies. The Vikings, Romans, Greeks, and British were the dominant peoples of their times because of free trade. The vikings were avid traders and sailors and ruled the north for over a thousand years. The Romans did the same and ruled for hundreds of years. The Brits came from a small island yet dominated the world ( "the sun never sets on the British Empire!" )including India, Australia, Africa, and the New World. The British fleets of the time were enormous, and their trading companies prosperous and world famous. The Brits had the largest merchant fleets (as well as naval fleets) for hundreds of years.

The cultures that were poor, (and in most cases still poor) were closed societies that did not interact with other peoples. I cite almost all the central African nations. These nations do not have an extensive river system for trade or natural ports (not to mention unfriendly terrain that is unconducive for trade).

One excellent example is Japan. Japan was an EXTREMELY backward country before the Americans (Admiral Perry) came and opened it up. There was no technology of any kind in Japan. The Japanese people learned to at first copy the new technologies before developing their own in the 20th century.

The luddites (like the Unabomber)would have us believe that technology is bad because humans will be replaced by machines. In fact the opposite is true. Tens of millions of new jobs have been created as obsolete jobs have been eliminated (autos replaced horses and carriages, destroying a few hundred jobs and creating millions in the auto industry: assembly line, automotive engineers, gas stations, oil companies, oil drilling, shipping, auto mechanics, tire companies, auto salesmen, steel workers, batteries, auto parts suppliers, auto insurance, auto body workers, auto racing people, designers, advertising, truckers etc...). I don't need to mention how many jobs have been created by the recent technology revolution (that Mr. Klinton likes to take credit for).

Technology happens in great measure because of trade. Engineers need to design things for different cultures and languages. They exchange ideas and learn things from engineers in other nations. One might see a Japanese product and come up with a way to improve it or create some exciting new invention from an idea received from a Frenchman (who knows?). People who are exposed to new things, are people who use new things and create new things.

Living here in the U.S. we have a great advantage because we still believe in trade and we are technologically ahead of the world in most things (computer harware, software, pharmaceuticals, medical research, aerospace, etc). Trade allows us to sell our products around the world, making us richer in the process. Complaining about free trade when we are kicking ass is absolutely absurd. We have a trade deficit in large part because (mostly oil imports, some consumer items, and automobiles) we have so much money to spend on products from around the globe. 84% of the people in the world make less than $1200 per year, what are you afraid of? We are on top of the pyramid.

Please don't crap on free trade. I would like to see the data on job loss (hint: it doesn't exist)that support your conclusions.

Later

[This message has been edited by Agent Orange (edited February 02, 2000).]
 
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by mckysdad:
Boneyard, the same people will tell you that:
- the CIA killed JFK
- there is a secret Jewish organization which is dominating the world
- The Pope can require anything from a Catholic and is secretly dominating the world (I wonder if he is Jewish too?)
- There is a secret leftist international Komintern whose sole goal is to corrupt America
- The CIA can cover up anything that happens in the US and does
- The Government has shadowy powers which it uses to a) make people disappear b)keep shameful secrets from the citizens forever c)bring to fruition evil schemes d)if you ever start talking about this they will go after you too.

There are nuts and crackpots everywhere my friend. Next thing they'll talk about devils taking over your soul or aliens abducting them from the middle of their fields. Believe only what can be proved and use Ockham's razor as needed. You can't go wrong with good, solid common sense.[/quote]

Let's use Ockman's razor on Waco:

When questioned, what is the EASIEST thing to do?

Deny everything!

"We never fired incendiary devices on the compound."

(Spent incendiary devices found in compound rubble.)

"Okay, we never fired incendiary devices at the time that the compound went up in flames. And we never fired them at the part that burned."

---

"We never fired on the Davidians."

(FLIR tapes...)

"Those are sunlight reflections."

---

I'll not drag this out...

The fact is, we DON'T trust our government, and there is very minimal evidence of why we should, and very maximal evidence of why we shouldn't.

Common sense here says, "There is no reason to trust them, question everything"

------------------
John/az

"The middle of the road between the extremes of good and evil, is evil. When freedom is at stake, your silence is not golden, it's yellow..." RKBA!
 
Agent Orange --

I think you can make a pretty strong argument that when you make a "Free" trade agreement with one nation that heavily subsidizes most industries (Canada) and one where wages are 1/8 of what we pay and little or no environmental laws (Mexico), you're bound to wind up the loser. No, I haven't seen a great loss of jobs yet either. That doesn't necessarily mean that NAFTA was good for this country, nor was it necessarily good for Mexico.

We can have free (and fair) trade with countries like Japan and those of Western Europe where living standards and environmental laws are comperable, but I think we're deluding ourselves that we can open up the trade spigot with countries that have completely corrupt governments and near medieval living standards and then say "look, it created x number of jobs here in the U.S."

How many manufacturing jobs might have been created in the U.S. w/o NAFTA? Instead, plants open in Tijuana and create zero manufacturing jobs here. Believe it or not, commercial property is now more expensive in Tijuana than in San Diego right now. And besides, you can't even swim at Imperial Beach for all the turds floating in from the Tijuana river.

Sorry, you can keep your NAFTA.
 
Jack99,

Jack, my man, I will gladly keep NAFTA.

You stated: "Canada heavily subsidizes industries"

Fact: So what? The U.S. government (and all western nations) spend billions on subsidies. As a free trader this is unfortunate because there shouldn't be any subsidies. But the point is all the rich nations do it so it's irrelevant to this discussion.

You state: "I haven't seen a great loss of jobs YET" (my emphasis)

Fact: That's right because you have seen a great INCREASE in jobs. Mexico has also had INCREASED employment.(this will decrease the number of mexicans illegally entering the U.S. looking for work). The key word seems to be "yet". This seems to be a backhanded admission that you are wrong "so far". For once I would like to see a declarative admission that the NAFTA fearmongers were WRONG! Why won't you concede this point? There is no evidence to support the contrary viewpoint (Anti-NAFTA guy: "evidence be damned, I'm sticking to my opinion!"). As proven by the data and reality, not myth based opinion, NAFTA has been good for America.

You state: "we can have free and fair trade with western nations (and Japan) where living standards and labor laws are comparable"

Fact: Sez who? We can have free trade with whomever we want. Please name one product or group of products (hell, name anything!) that a third world country (medieval as you say) produces or could produce that would cost U.S. jobs. I would love to know how unskilled, untrained, uneducated workers are a challenge to U.S. workers and industry. You have an irrational fear of the third world labor force. In the year 2000 third world workers perform menial tasks in western owned factories (Nike for instance, gluing shoes together) that do not appeal to Americans. Further even if these jobs were in the U.S., they wouldn't pay more than the minimum wage. Also, if these products were produced in the U.S., like Nike shoes, they would cost far more, which would decrease sales, which would therefore cost jobs in the U.S. Must the poor bastards of the third world remain unemployed? If western companies don't employ these people who will? Some third world billionaire? They don't exist. Where is your compassion for these people who live on pennies a day? The only choice they would have to better themselves would be to illegally emigrate to a western nation. (Then, many people would complain about all the dark skinned illegals coming into the country).

You also seem to be in favor of Environmental standards for trade. This is just another way of using BS to ban certain products. The Green Party of Europe, along with Euro farmers, and socialists are intent on banning some U.S. farm crops, beef, pork, and milk because they are genetically engineered or hormone enhanced. This despite the fact that ALL foods and ALL food animals have been genetically enhanced by mankind (I refer you to Gregor Mendel's studies of genetics which led to cross breeding and genetically selecting all manner of animals and plants and fruit). Just look at your dogs to see genetic manipulation of animals. Further, there is zero scientific evidence that these foods harm humans. This post is getting too long to discuss the exaggerated enviro claims (ozone, acid rain, greenhouse gases, plastic, aluminum, etc., all this bad stuff yet we live longer and longer) made by the left. Poor nations can't go from pollution to clean without the econmic wherewithal to do so. We must remember that this country had polluted rivers and lakes at one time. We were able to clean them up because we had the MONEY to do so. Let's keep environmentalism out of the free trade negotiations.

Here's to economic development and free trade!


[This message has been edited by Agent Orange (edited February 02, 2000).]
 
Agent--

I have on word for you: Transmissions.

That's right, almost every tranny being put into every new car (even Japanese cars) is Hecho en Mexico. People in this country and Canada used to make a pretty good living building transmissions.

I am NOT an envoronmentalist, but let's pretend you have the option of opening your factory in a country where environmental laws are non existant OR you can locate in the US where it will cost you x millions of dollars just to make the plant comply with environmental laws. Is that a difficult decision? Not to mention possible future liability for toxic cleanup etc.

And when we see toxic pollutants being blatantly dumped any old place from lack of give a damn on the part of corrupt third world politicians so we can have a cheaper TV set and corporate America can have a little fatter bottom line, well that's not a great trade off either. We bear some responsibility for serious abuse of third world environments.

Just to let you know, I actually think we should expand trade with more countries that heavily subsidize major industries. Short term, we probably lose, but long term the economics of free market capitalism take over and we prevail. Its actually good for us if we can hang for a few economic cycles.

The long and short of it is that so long as we take the route of opening trade to countries where the cost of doing business is 1/2 or less we're going to lose jobs in labor intensive industries. Its just kind of the way it is.

Also, why is NAFTA 6,000 pages or so in length? Part of it is exclusionary agreements that keep us from exporting Canola to Canada and certain processed corn products to Mexico. That's not exactly "Free Trade" in my book. You know how much excess corn we produce every year?

I'm for free trade too, but only if it makes sense. NAFTA did not.
 
The New World Order has nothing to do with Masons. It has nothing to do with the Pope, the Beast, aliens, or Jewish people.
The New World Order is the combined efforts of Socialists in several countries to harness the population to serve the top political caste. It is simply corruprtion and leftist economic ideas being put into effect via the U.N. It is not well planned or well thought out. The enemy isn't that smart. If they were, we would be in great re-education camps already.

Christian explanations are only of use to Cristians.
 
Agent Orange-I'm not going to argue with you about NAFTA/GATT. I think it was a raw deal for the US and you don't. OK. I WILL argue with you about the so called benefits of free trade when it comes to countries that have a vested interest in seeing the USA harmed, which includes just about everyone in the world outside of Great Britain and Israel. In particular, I mean China. I get very angry when I hear people say that we must "normalize" trade with these Communist Pr!cks. The people who spout this dung are the one's who are betraying this country for a buck. The list includes Loral, Hughes, Motorola, McDonnel Douglas, GM, Ford, Sun Microsystems etc. All of these companies are actively engaged in trading with China, and ALL have transferred critical technologies to our enemies there. If you don't think that these Communists are the enemy, then you have been ignoring their statements, and what they are doing around the world to undermine us; US businesses are helping them. That is what unrestricted free trade gets you.
By the way, all of the examples that you gave were EMPIRES, and extracted raw materials from their colonies to send to their factories, and forced every one to by their goods. They restricted imports from competing empires.
Mike
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top