Hi All, I have a big interest in a new lever gun...seems to be going around these days. I haven't had one in probably 15 years, since I gave my grand fathers old 35 to my brother. For a year or so I've been looking a bit, for something in a .44 mag. I love the old Winchesters, and since I grew up watching Chuck Connors and John Wayne I'd sort of like a hoop style lever but not absolutely required. Anyway, in this day and age when it seems everything is turning to junk, I'm not sure what to get. The prices on new Winchester rifles seems outrageous...seems like just yesterday you could go about any gun shop and pick up a new Model 94 for 350 or so. Now a 94 or a 92 is over a grand? I even read that the 92 by Winchester is made in Japan?? How is the quality of the Winchester lever guns these days? I've hear mixed reviews of Rossi and Chiappa...and I'd really like Winchester stamped on it instead of some other brand. Are the Winchesters worth the price they're asking? I've looked at Henry too, they seem pretty nice but I do like that Win lever and loading gate on the receiver.
New Winchester lever action rifles
- Thread starter MJFlores
- Start date
All the Winchester lever actions are made in Japan now. Quality seems to be very good but I've not handled one. The 94 was designed for a rifle cartridge from the get go and many of them do not cycle well with pistol caliber cartridges. I have a pre safety Rossi 92 in 44-40 and I couldn't be happier with it.
If you want that Winchester stamp by all means get one. I completely understand, I bought a Colt 1911 for the same reason. If you want a cheap shooter pick up a Rossi, they are great guns for the money, my 92 in .44 mag is one of my favorite rifles.
In reference to the Winchester, dont forget about used ones. I picked up a 1978 model 94 Winchester for less than half the cost of new and this thing was rarely fired, almost mint condition and made in the good old U.S.A.
In reference to the Winchester, dont forget about used ones. I picked up a 1978 model 94 Winchester for less than half the cost of new and this thing was rarely fired, almost mint condition and made in the good old U.S.A.
All new Winchesters have safeties except the 1873. First you need to decide if you can abide this or not. That will decide whether or not you want a new Winchester.
If you can tell us what you want or need that would help. Such as what you will be doing with it and what caliber you desire.
Forget about Chiappa, they might be ok, they might be junk. Pure crap shoot.
Here are good quality makes to consider.
If you can tell us what you want or need that would help. Such as what you will be doing with it and what caliber you desire.
Forget about Chiappa, they might be ok, they might be junk. Pure crap shoot.
Here are good quality makes to consider.
- Uberti - hand pick for wood and case color
- Henry - best new value and American made
- Winchester - 1873 or used
- Rossi - fundamentally sound, Steve's Gunz can resolve anything such as plugging the safety
- Marlin - JM marked, if safety, will need plugging
stubbicatt
New member
Once new replica prices start cresting the $1,000 mark, it begins to make the old originals look a lot better. They are out there, if you look carefully.
Crunchy Frog
New member
"I even read that the 92 by Winchester is made in Japan?? How is the quality of the Winchester lever guns these days? I've hear mixed reviews of Rossi and Chiappa...and I'd really like Winchester stamped on it instead of some other brand."
Winchester has not manufactured any firearms in the USA for quite some time but that does not mean that the Winchester branded rifles are junk. The ones made in Japan are manufactured by Miroku, the same company that makes many of the Browning branded guns. If I am not mistaken, the Winchester Model 70 rifles are made in the USA by FNH, another quality manufacturer.
The modern '92s were tweaked (as if John M. Browning didn't know how to design a gun) to incorporate a tang safety and a rebounding hammer. The 1873 was reintroduced a couple of years ago and although it has a passive hammer block safety there is no manual safety, so it is pretty true to the original. The quality of the new '73s is very good.
Winchester has not manufactured any firearms in the USA for quite some time but that does not mean that the Winchester branded rifles are junk. The ones made in Japan are manufactured by Miroku, the same company that makes many of the Browning branded guns. If I am not mistaken, the Winchester Model 70 rifles are made in the USA by FNH, another quality manufacturer.
The modern '92s were tweaked (as if John M. Browning didn't know how to design a gun) to incorporate a tang safety and a rebounding hammer. The 1873 was reintroduced a couple of years ago and although it has a passive hammer block safety there is no manual safety, so it is pretty true to the original. The quality of the new '73s is very good.
http://www.cdnnsports.com/catalogsearch/result/?order=relevance&dir=desc&q=1873
If you want a new Winchester 1873 CDNN has some relatively good prices. 45 Colt and 357/38 were not available in the Winchesters of yesteryear but ammo is more available and cheaper than the old 44/40.
If you want a new Winchester 1873 CDNN has some relatively good prices. 45 Colt and 357/38 were not available in the Winchesters of yesteryear but ammo is more available and cheaper than the old 44/40.
"If you can tell us what you want or need that would help. Such as what you will be doing with it and what caliber you desire."
I would definitely want it chambered in .44 magnum. I do quite a bit of reloading for .44 and shooting it in hand guns. I would more than likely set aside a few hundred pieces of brass for use just in the rifle. For use, it would be used for just about everything. I'm lucky enough to have my own range here on the property, so It would see a lot of use out there. I'd also hunt with it, and use it as a woods gun when I'm out walking the property, checking wood, and even tapping maple trees in the spring. Kind of a do all rifle. I love the look of the new 1892 Winchesters, but I don't know if I like the idea of a safety. Just doesn't seem right.
I would definitely want it chambered in .44 magnum. I do quite a bit of reloading for .44 and shooting it in hand guns. I would more than likely set aside a few hundred pieces of brass for use just in the rifle. For use, it would be used for just about everything. I'm lucky enough to have my own range here on the property, so It would see a lot of use out there. I'd also hunt with it, and use it as a woods gun when I'm out walking the property, checking wood, and even tapping maple trees in the spring. Kind of a do all rifle. I love the look of the new 1892 Winchesters, but I don't know if I like the idea of a safety. Just doesn't seem right.
I have a new Winchester 1873 made in Japan. Excellent quality, very nice finish. The lever action is extremely smooth. Fun to shoot and very accurate with the semi buckhorn sights.
Mine is chambered in .38 Spl / .357 mag. Has the octagon barrel and case hardened receiver. Not inexpensive, but a fine gun in my opinion.
Mine is chambered in .38 Spl / .357 mag. Has the octagon barrel and case hardened receiver. Not inexpensive, but a fine gun in my opinion.
Driftwood Johnson
New member
Howdy
During World War One Winchester invested heavily in their business, but with the end of hostilities the company was never able to return to profitability. The Great Depression drove the last nail into the company's coffin. Winchester went into receivership in 1931 and John M Olin's Western Cartridge Company bought the company at bankruptcy auction. In 1935, the name of the company was changed to the Winchester-Western Company. In 1944 the company was reorganized as the Winchester-Western division of Olin Industries.
By the 1960s rising labor costs made it difficult for Winchester to compete with other firearms makers, particularly with their classic Model 12 shotgun and Model 70 rifles, which were made with machined parts and needed considerable hand finishing of the parts. Remington in particular brought out their Model 870 shotgun with stamped parts and the Winchester Model 12 could not compete.
By 1980, Olin became convinced they could no longer profitably produce firearms at the old New Haven plant, so the plant was sold to employees under the new name of U. S. Repeating Arms. But by 1989 U. S. Repeating Arms company went bankrupt.
U.S. Repeating Arms was then acquired by Herstal Group in Belgium which also owned Fabrique Nationale and the Browning Arms Company. In 2006 U. S. Repeating Arms closed the old Winchester plant in New Haven.
By this time Olin still owned Winchester brand of ammunition.
U.S. Repeating Arms had already contracted with Miroku of Japan to produce some of the classic Winchester designs, and Miroku is still producing them today. Miroku makes high quality firearms. They currently produce the classic Model 94 deer rifle, the Model 1885 Single Shot (the first design that Winchester bought from John Browning), the Model 1886, the Model 1892, and most recently the Model 1873 was reintroduced. I have had the opportunity to examine the new Japanese made 1873 and it is a fine rifle, of very high quality.
Personally, I prefer to buy old Winchesters, there are plenty of them around and sometimes you can find a good deal, particularly if it has been refinished.
During World War One Winchester invested heavily in their business, but with the end of hostilities the company was never able to return to profitability. The Great Depression drove the last nail into the company's coffin. Winchester went into receivership in 1931 and John M Olin's Western Cartridge Company bought the company at bankruptcy auction. In 1935, the name of the company was changed to the Winchester-Western Company. In 1944 the company was reorganized as the Winchester-Western division of Olin Industries.
By the 1960s rising labor costs made it difficult for Winchester to compete with other firearms makers, particularly with their classic Model 12 shotgun and Model 70 rifles, which were made with machined parts and needed considerable hand finishing of the parts. Remington in particular brought out their Model 870 shotgun with stamped parts and the Winchester Model 12 could not compete.
By 1980, Olin became convinced they could no longer profitably produce firearms at the old New Haven plant, so the plant was sold to employees under the new name of U. S. Repeating Arms. But by 1989 U. S. Repeating Arms company went bankrupt.
U.S. Repeating Arms was then acquired by Herstal Group in Belgium which also owned Fabrique Nationale and the Browning Arms Company. In 2006 U. S. Repeating Arms closed the old Winchester plant in New Haven.
By this time Olin still owned Winchester brand of ammunition.
U.S. Repeating Arms had already contracted with Miroku of Japan to produce some of the classic Winchester designs, and Miroku is still producing them today. Miroku makes high quality firearms. They currently produce the classic Model 94 deer rifle, the Model 1885 Single Shot (the first design that Winchester bought from John Browning), the Model 1886, the Model 1892, and most recently the Model 1873 was reintroduced. I have had the opportunity to examine the new Japanese made 1873 and it is a fine rifle, of very high quality.
Personally, I prefer to buy old Winchesters, there are plenty of them around and sometimes you can find a good deal, particularly if it has been refinished.
Driftwood Johnson
New member
Howdy Again
I would steer away from an Uberti 1873 chambered for 44 Mag. Yes, Uberti feels confident producing them, and they are all proof tested, but proof testing just means that the rifle has survived one proof load. The 44 Mag version of the 1873 has not been on the market for very long, the jury is still out on whether or not the old 1873 design will stand up to repeated pounding of a powerful cartridge like the 44 Mag. Yes, modern steels are better than the old steels, but the Uberti 44 Mag 1873 that I examined did not look any more heavily built than their 44-40 or 45 Colt versions. The old toggle link design of the 1873 is still not very strong, the action is never truly locked up in the same sense that a modern design is, the toggle links are simply lined up to prevent the bolt from moving. The frame of the 1873 is essentially a skeleton frame. I would not be confident it would not crack after repeated pounding of heavy 44 Mag loads.
If I wuz looking for a 44 Mag lever gun, I would look seriously at the Rossi version of the Winchester 1892 design. The 1892 design is much stronger than the 1873 design, with two solid locking lugs. Rossi also chambers their version of the 1892 for 452 Casull, another very stout cartridge.
I would steer away from an Uberti 1873 chambered for 44 Mag. Yes, Uberti feels confident producing them, and they are all proof tested, but proof testing just means that the rifle has survived one proof load. The 44 Mag version of the 1873 has not been on the market for very long, the jury is still out on whether or not the old 1873 design will stand up to repeated pounding of a powerful cartridge like the 44 Mag. Yes, modern steels are better than the old steels, but the Uberti 44 Mag 1873 that I examined did not look any more heavily built than their 44-40 or 45 Colt versions. The old toggle link design of the 1873 is still not very strong, the action is never truly locked up in the same sense that a modern design is, the toggle links are simply lined up to prevent the bolt from moving. The frame of the 1873 is essentially a skeleton frame. I would not be confident it would not crack after repeated pounding of heavy 44 Mag loads.
If I wuz looking for a 44 Mag lever gun, I would look seriously at the Rossi version of the Winchester 1892 design. The 1892 design is much stronger than the 1873 design, with two solid locking lugs. Rossi also chambers their version of the 1892 for 452 Casull, another very stout cartridge.
In the 44 mag cal, the Browning 92's made in the 1980s by Miroku are excellent quality guns and have the traditional half cock safety, not the modernized rebound hammer and tang safety of the current Winchesters made by Miroku.
Seems the price on the Browning 92's is less than new Winchesters suggested price. Some are found used enough to lower the price a bit more. They are head and shoulders better gun than any other imports I've seen (imho).
Some people are squeamish about drilling and tapping Brownings for receiver sights and sling mounts. I'm not one of them. Mine get holes in them as needed, and makes them much more usable.
Seems the price on the Browning 92's is less than new Winchesters suggested price. Some are found used enough to lower the price a bit more. They are head and shoulders better gun than any other imports I've seen (imho).
Some people are squeamish about drilling and tapping Brownings for receiver sights and sling mounts. I'm not one of them. Mine get holes in them as needed, and makes them much more usable.
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Driftwood Johnson
New member
Howdy Again
Yup, I picked up this Model 94 a few years ago for less than $500. Made in the late 1940s, 30-30. I'm not a hunter, and didn't really need a 30-30, but the price was right and I couldn't pass it up.
Yup, I picked up this Model 94 a few years ago for less than $500. Made in the late 1940s, 30-30. I'm not a hunter, and didn't really need a 30-30, but the price was right and I couldn't pass it up.
Hi, Driftwood,
A good summary of Winchester history. One thing I have never forgiven them for is their role in passing the Gun Control Act of 1968. Old Tom Dodd, of Winchester's home state of Connecticut, had been raging for years about cheap handguns being available by mail order to what were then quaintly known as "juvenile delinquents."
Winchester kept seeing their sales dropping but didn't know or wouldn't say that it was due to the guns from Ilion. Instead, they blamed surplus guns, insisting that people who bought $9.95 Enfields would have bought $150 Winchesters if the surplus guns were banned. So, with Lyndon Johnson's hypocritical push for gun control after Kennedy was out of the way, some kind of gun control looked like a certainty.
So, Dodd's staff wrote the part of the bill on mail order guns and cheap imported handguns, while Winchester's attorneys wrote the part on banning military surplus arms. (There were rumors of Winchester money being used to "educate" our honest lawmakers on the evils of guns not marked "Winchester".)
Jim
A good summary of Winchester history. One thing I have never forgiven them for is their role in passing the Gun Control Act of 1968. Old Tom Dodd, of Winchester's home state of Connecticut, had been raging for years about cheap handguns being available by mail order to what were then quaintly known as "juvenile delinquents."
Winchester kept seeing their sales dropping but didn't know or wouldn't say that it was due to the guns from Ilion. Instead, they blamed surplus guns, insisting that people who bought $9.95 Enfields would have bought $150 Winchesters if the surplus guns were banned. So, with Lyndon Johnson's hypocritical push for gun control after Kennedy was out of the way, some kind of gun control looked like a certainty.
So, Dodd's staff wrote the part of the bill on mail order guns and cheap imported handguns, while Winchester's attorneys wrote the part on banning military surplus arms. (There were rumors of Winchester money being used to "educate" our honest lawmakers on the evils of guns not marked "Winchester".)
Jim
I just had one of the Miroku 92s in my shop the other day. Very nicely made, but almost a cartoon of a Winchester gun with the finely polished steel and beautiful wood (real Winchesters were only finished so-so, and wood was plain and vat dyed to all look the same). But very well made! If you like rebounding hammers and tang safeties and firing pin blocks.
I had a '73 in the shop about a month ago. Same story, very nicely finished, but really too nice if you are familiar with New Haven Winchesters.
Henry rifles are just a purtied-up cross-dressed Marlin. And they are HEAVY! They took a historically recognizable name and implied that the new Henry rifles are the same as the original Henry rifles of Civil War fame. But the guts are just like a Marlin. In fact, Marlin parts fit in them.
Rossis look a little bit like a 92 on the outside, but are totally coil springs and pins and metric screws on the inside. I would never buy one. The Chiappas are a pretty good reproduction of the Winchester 1892s, with the same thread pitch on all the parts. Since they are reproductions, they cost just as much to make, so they cost a bit more than a Rossi, but are a good rifle. That said, I have seen some issues with them, but smiths see all the sick ones.
Gunplummer
New member
I have to laugh to myself sometimes. On this forum the Carcano seems to be rated so low that it is almost ignored. Why would the same people think that new Italian rifles are any better? Hard to understand sometimes.