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New vs. Once Fired
- Thread starter Baldwin
- Start date
Sure Shot Mc Gee
New member
Nothing wrong with using rem brass. My small base die sets are set-up to resize/seat/crimp Fed_Win_and Frontier brass in whatever order. Reloading Rem brass requires a re-calibrating of both dies so to accommodate Rem only.cw308 question.
As for set spring back memory. At times I pick up 308 so to swagg to 300 Savage. 308 range dropped first fires are typically A-OK. But every now and than I pick up a few LC brass (federal made) fired full auto I think? I have no clue what goes on in chambering and ejection in such rifles. Although such brass I've encountered shows battering and so many disappointments Base to Neck I've decided no longer will I bother with >upon their preliminary inspection.
Pathfinder45
New member
The main difference between once-fired and new brass is one firing. So as soon as you shoot your new brass, it instantly becomes once-fired. So if you need brass and have to buy it, if the once-fired is much cheaper, it makes sense to go that route. Alternatively, you could look for new ammo on sale in the brands you prefer, but perhaps, cheap hard-ball or whatever, that you can use for plinker-grade ammo and then reload the cases with better components.
FrankenMauser
New member
The case mouth, with repeated slamming into the end of the chamber, gets pushed back.Unclenick, you may have answered this somewhere in the past, but where does the brass go when the .45 ACP case shortens? Does internal capacity reduce due to increased wall thickness?
As such, the case walls thicken slightly.
It is not, however, anything worth worrying about as far as case capacity.
The same thing can be seen with nearly any rimless "auto-loading handgun cartridge" -- i.e. .380 Auto, 9mm, .40 S&W, etc...
Fire them in a revolver, though, and the story takes a slight turn.
(They stop shrinking.)
Sure Shot McGee
When I was answering about brass I was talking about pistol brass. With rifle brass , when I first started to reload for a 308 l thought all brass was the same . I started with 100 cases of new Remington brass . Worked fine but when a friend at the range gave me his Federal brass , he doesn't reload an I get all his brass . Anyway , after F/L sizing his Fed. brass I noticed the powder filled into the case neck. Dumped that load into the Rem case , the charge was at the base of the neck. I like thicker brass , Fed , HSM & ADI . I no longer use Rem. Win . & Hornady . May be good but on the thin side, I like thicker brass because I don't load hot , on the low to middle of the load range.
Chris
When I was answering about brass I was talking about pistol brass. With rifle brass , when I first started to reload for a 308 l thought all brass was the same . I started with 100 cases of new Remington brass . Worked fine but when a friend at the range gave me his Federal brass , he doesn't reload an I get all his brass . Anyway , after F/L sizing his Fed. brass I noticed the powder filled into the case neck. Dumped that load into the Rem case , the charge was at the base of the neck. I like thicker brass , Fed , HSM & ADI . I no longer use Rem. Win . & Hornady . May be good but on the thin side, I like thicker brass because I don't load hot , on the low to middle of the load range.
Chris
Well Baldwin, you have heard it all concerning once fired brass, from "yep, it works for me" to advanced theory on metal working and brass flow from sizing and firing.
I have purchased a lot of "once fired", aka "used" brass for all my handguns and some 7.62x51. I have a good supply of HXP surplus for my Garand and reload that. Early on in my Garand reloading I bought some new Hornady 30-06 brass, but I see no difference, yet.
I believe the key to shooting any brass is a good inspection prior to reloading. I have found new brass with dings and a couple "off" dimensions, just the same as I've found defects in used brass. In all the 45 ACP and 9mm brass I bought as once fired, I don't remember many (any) cases that weren't usable except an occasional steel case...
I have purchased a lot of "once fired", aka "used" brass for all my handguns and some 7.62x51. I have a good supply of HXP surplus for my Garand and reload that. Early on in my Garand reloading I bought some new Hornady 30-06 brass, but I see no difference, yet.
I believe the key to shooting any brass is a good inspection prior to reloading. I have found new brass with dings and a couple "off" dimensions, just the same as I've found defects in used brass. In all the 45 ACP and 9mm brass I bought as once fired, I don't remember many (any) cases that weren't usable except an occasional steel case...
Found Brass Is Like Gold, Mostly...
Over the years I've fired thousands of rounds of bought brass, found brass and even a few boxes of commercial ammunition. I find if you can sort it a bit the found or 1-F brass if just fine.
There are exceptions however. One day at a gravel-pit I came across 40 7mm Rem Mag brass! I felt rich. That much brass paid for the gasoline... There's no free lunch however. On cleaning and close inspection I found most of the batch had incipient head separation. I could barely see anything on the outside but an "L"-shaped wire easily detected a dip on the inside of the case near the head. I sawed a few lengthwise to get a closer look. It was horrible. Either someone had gross headspace or someone had reloaded the rounds doing full-length sizing every time. Just neck-sizing means the cases don't stretch like that.
My oldest brass is 1-F milsurp from 1969. It just keeps shooting. Happy reloading. After that is most of the new brass I bought in the 1970s. Out of thousands I've only lost a few to cracking or actually getting lost in the weeds. In those days brass, bullets and powder were much less expensive than today. Those reloaded brass have really paid for themselves no matter the source. We'll have to cast or swage to fix the cost of bullets.
Over the years I've fired thousands of rounds of bought brass, found brass and even a few boxes of commercial ammunition. I find if you can sort it a bit the found or 1-F brass if just fine.
There are exceptions however. One day at a gravel-pit I came across 40 7mm Rem Mag brass! I felt rich. That much brass paid for the gasoline... There's no free lunch however. On cleaning and close inspection I found most of the batch had incipient head separation. I could barely see anything on the outside but an "L"-shaped wire easily detected a dip on the inside of the case near the head. I sawed a few lengthwise to get a closer look. It was horrible. Either someone had gross headspace or someone had reloaded the rounds doing full-length sizing every time. Just neck-sizing means the cases don't stretch like that.
My oldest brass is 1-F milsurp from 1969. It just keeps shooting. Happy reloading. After that is most of the new brass I bought in the 1970s. Out of thousands I've only lost a few to cracking or actually getting lost in the weeds. In those days brass, bullets and powder were much less expensive than today. Those reloaded brass have really paid for themselves no matter the source. We'll have to cast or swage to fix the cost of bullets.
Pathfinder45 wrote:
The main difference between once-fired and new brass is one firing.
If you shot factory ammunition and collected the brass, you have true "once-fired brass", but as used in reloading circles, "once-fired brass" is a term of art and is not to be understood with precision.
Other than brass whose history is known to you personally or military brass whose crimped-in primers are still in place, any "once-fired brass" should be regarded as "brass previously fired an unknown number of times" and until inspected, should be treated as having come into your hands because the prior owner shot it until they were afraid to use it again (hard neck, case head separation, loose primer pocket).
Baldwin asked:
What are the opinions on new vs. once fired?
If you shoot at a location where you can be certain of picking up all or nearly all of your fired casings, new brass is a viable choice since you start out with a high quality product of known heritage and each time you use it you know the guy who shot it before you was not a nut.
But, serious manufacturing defects in brass cases are most likely to manifest on first firing, which, other than cost is the only thing I see as a meaningful argument against using new brass.
Buying previously fired brass from internet sellers, you don't know what you're getting because they can't be sure of what they're getting. Some may be brass from factory loads fired at an indoor range by people who don't reload and is truly once-fired. But, some may also have been fired out of a machine gun by somebody who regards published load data as having been compiled by wimps so he always overcharges cases by 10%. Both could appear in the same bag you get from the seller.
Where I shoot about 35% of my brass gets "lost in the weeds", so I am constantly buying "previously fired" brass to replace it. But, I do clean, process and carefully inspect that brass before it enters my reloading stream. As I said elsewhere, it does not surprise me if upwards of 5% of the cases I receive go into the recycling bin. What passes inspection gets loaded and shot, loaded and shot until it is all "lost in the weeds" and in 40 years I have never had a significant brass-related failure.
Once fired brass;
I have purchased once fired cases for a penny a piece; I was not the first person in the long line to have an opportunity at that barging price but all of those reloaders ahead of me had excuses. The number one excuses was: they did not want to clean them. I had the 1,400 cases cleaned in 4 hours. Once fired cases are my favorite,
I sort once fired by head stamp and by length from the shoulder/datum to the case head; back to my favorite, My favorite case is a case that has been fired in a trashy old chamber that is long from the shoulder to the case head. It is not easy to size a case that is short from the shoulder to the case head to fit a chamber that is long from the datum to the bolt face.
Once fired and stretched: My favorite fired cases do not include cases that have stretched between the case head and case body; but, that is a conversation I do not believe we will ever get around to talking about.
I want cases that have the ability to off set the length of the chamber when sized.
F. Guffey
I have purchased once fired cases for a penny a piece; I was not the first person in the long line to have an opportunity at that barging price but all of those reloaders ahead of me had excuses. The number one excuses was: they did not want to clean them. I had the 1,400 cases cleaned in 4 hours. Once fired cases are my favorite,
I sort once fired by head stamp and by length from the shoulder/datum to the case head; back to my favorite, My favorite case is a case that has been fired in a trashy old chamber that is long from the shoulder to the case head. It is not easy to size a case that is short from the shoulder to the case head to fit a chamber that is long from the datum to the bolt face.
Once fired and stretched: My favorite fired cases do not include cases that have stretched between the case head and case body; but, that is a conversation I do not believe we will ever get around to talking about.
I want cases that have the ability to off set the length of the chamber when sized.
F. Guffey
Marco Califo
New member
Once Fired Brass
Many merchants and vendors will sell you what they call "Once-Fired Brass". That term is frequently mis-used to refer to Range Pickup Brass, which is whatever they sweep up off the floor, and has to be considered "at least once fired" of mixed manufacture, and unknown previous use.
The only "True Once Fired Brass" is from military range use, is made by Lake City Army Ammunition Plant, includes "LC" and a year of manufacture in the headstamp, and has crimped in primers (a milspec requirement). There are some other military headstamps (TAA, WC, PMC, etc.) available, but if you select only 100% LC to purchase you will be in good shape. You need to ream the primer pocket by some means to reprime. An extra step, you do it once, and you know for certain you have high quality brass that has been fired only once.
I use once fired brass and rarely buy new brass. I take this further and select only firearms which use military cartridges (223/5.56 , 308/7.62, 9mm) to take advantage of inexpensive military surplus brass which is known high quality, and certain "once-firedness" of crimped in primers which I gladly remove. I also reload 40 S&W, which is a pervasive sidearm chambering (LE, security, and carry), often carried by the same merchants. 40S&W is not crimped, but when collected at a LE range and all the same headstamp, is equally reliable.
http://www.gibrass.com/brass.html
https://brassbombers.com/
Many merchants and vendors will sell you what they call "Once-Fired Brass". That term is frequently mis-used to refer to Range Pickup Brass, which is whatever they sweep up off the floor, and has to be considered "at least once fired" of mixed manufacture, and unknown previous use.
The only "True Once Fired Brass" is from military range use, is made by Lake City Army Ammunition Plant, includes "LC" and a year of manufacture in the headstamp, and has crimped in primers (a milspec requirement). There are some other military headstamps (TAA, WC, PMC, etc.) available, but if you select only 100% LC to purchase you will be in good shape. You need to ream the primer pocket by some means to reprime. An extra step, you do it once, and you know for certain you have high quality brass that has been fired only once.
I use once fired brass and rarely buy new brass. I take this further and select only firearms which use military cartridges (223/5.56 , 308/7.62, 9mm) to take advantage of inexpensive military surplus brass which is known high quality, and certain "once-firedness" of crimped in primers which I gladly remove. I also reload 40 S&W, which is a pervasive sidearm chambering (LE, security, and carry), often carried by the same merchants. 40S&W is not crimped, but when collected at a LE range and all the same headstamp, is equally reliable.
http://www.gibrass.com/brass.html
https://brassbombers.com/
I use once fired brass and rarely buy new brass. I take this further and select only firearms which use military cartridges (223/5.56 , 308/7.62, 9mm) to take advantage of inexpensive military surplus brass which is known high quality, and certain "once-firedness" of crimped in primers which I gladly remove.
And when I build something to shoot I do not build anything that uses a case that that can not be formed from 30/06 cases; there is no way a case can cost me more than the one cent I paid for it.
F. Guffey
I'm a revolver shooter for competitions like USPSA and Steel Challenge. Fortunately I get to keep all my brass since I load them into moon clips.
I always buy a new box of 1000 pieces of brass at the beginning of the year. Winchester has worked the best for me. Mixed brass is not too good because of the extractor marks on the brass. It will destroy your wonderful action job. Also NEW brass just seems to shoot better.
I get a lot of reloads out of my brass and when I'm done I donate it to some Auto shooter.
I always buy a new box of 1000 pieces of brass at the beginning of the year. Winchester has worked the best for me. Mixed brass is not too good because of the extractor marks on the brass. It will destroy your wonderful action job. Also NEW brass just seems to shoot better.
I get a lot of reloads out of my brass and when I'm done I donate it to some Auto shooter.