New to Shotguns, seeking opinion on which to buy

I double checked my info from this weekend - the Benelli Super Sport's suggested retail is $ 1979 - and I saw one locally this weekend for $ 1,850.

The Super Sport comes with 5 extended chokes ( so that's about $ 250 extra ) if you want to add them to another gun that doesn't have them.

The Super Sport is light - but since it only comes one way, with the Comfort Tech system in it, I still says its as soft a shooting gun as a gas operated Beretta ( and it shoots cleaner, and it cycles faster ).

The converstation you and my friends Zippy and HogDogs were having about defense ... I will rely on a handgun as well, if in the very small chance, something happens in my home ( and I shoot some Practical Pistol competitions, and practice weekly with my handguns ....). Scattergun Bob mentioned the other day - when clearing a house - the shotguns will typically stay in the cruiser - and I think his point should still be well taken. I'm not going to rely on a gun like the SuperSport for defense - vs a 1911 in .45 acp ...... but when I leave the bedroom areas - and get to my safe - grabbing a shotgun is still a pretty good idea ( 4 feet long or not ) just in case ....as a backup.

If you really want a "Fighting gun" - the Benelli M-4 or the M-2 Tactical are better options. But most of us don't intend to "Fight" with a shotgun / vs just using them as a Defensive option if we have to. I live in a fairly densly populated city / police are quick and responsive ....if I lived out in the woods or a rural area where a sheriff might need 30 min to get to me, my approach might be different.
 
NO! Those are hunting loads w/ 3-1/4 drams eq, they are hotter than target loads.
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Zippy... is there REALLY much difference between 3 and 3 1/4 drams? The 3 1/4 otherwise meet your list of specifications and they just BARELY make it over the 1200 FPS minimum you stated (1,255 FPS according to Cabelas) while the TARGET loads I see on Cabelas site are slower, some of which just barely getting to 1200 FPS.

... this is why I could really use an actual product ID or link to be sure we're talking about the same shotshells ... if you can find something, ANYTHING, that matches your specifications (from a place I can buy it online), please "link" me up ...

Perhaps an item from this page (below) instead?
http://tinyurl.com/CabelasWinTarget
 
jmr40, in case you missed it, at this point I'm leaning towards the Benelli SuperSport, despite it being nearly $2K.
 
I should have read the whole thread. A little more than I would spend, but a great gun I'm sure you will like.
 
s there REALLY much difference between 3 and 3 1/4 drams?
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Short answer - yes.

You should go to a local store and buy a box of 2-3/4, 3, and 3-1/4 dram shells and try them out. You'll notice more recoil from the faster shells, more "thump" to your shoulder, but they won't break the targets any better.....in fact, if you're shooting a lot, by the end, you may actually start to miss more targets due to fatigue
 
In your Cabella's link

the 2nd load on the Winchester link ( 3 dram, 1 1/8oz, 8's ) is a good versatile shell. There was a similar shell in the Remington Gun club portion of the link as well ( the 5th one down ) 3 dram, 1 1/8 oz, 8's .

Here is a link to a RIO load - thats pretty inexpensive

http://www.ableammo.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=70521

They are out of stock at this site - but a gun club, or sporting goods store in your area may have some RIO's as well. There are a lot of RIO shells that will cycle in the Super Sport just fine ( 3 Dram ) just means you need to look for a box that says 3 Dram or 1200 fps or faster .... Rio makes 1 oz, 1 1/16 oz , 1 1/8oz shells ( which means the volume of shot in the shell is higher ) - but you need to look at velocity or the Dram equivalent to estimate the velocity. The qty of shot is different.

As long as the box says 3 Dram equivalent or 1200 fps you are fine. Then look at the quantity of shot for 1 oz / if you can't find 1 oz then look for 1 1/16 oz - if you can't find 1 1/16 oz then look for 1 1/8oz . Then look at the size of the shot 9's - if you can't find 9's look for 8's - if you can't find 8's then look for 7 1/2's.

As the Dram equivalent goes over 3 Dram - it means the velocity is increasing - so there will be more recoil. Anything over 3 Dram is overkill. In general - you want to stay with 9's or 8's in terms of shot size. 8's are the best overall shell for sporting clays ( and good for Skeet and Trap ). 9's are a little small for Trap ( but ok, out at 16 yard line ).

As the pellet size gets bigger - it retains more energy - so it will break targets further out. The bigger the pellet - the less of them it will take to break a clay target. At 25 yards it will take 3 -4 9's to break a target, 2-3 8's, 1 - 2 7 1/2's but as you go beyond 30 yards 9's lose their effectiveness / 31 - 40 yards 8's are better / beyond 40 yards use 7 1/2's.

I reload - so I can shoot whatever I want. I choose to minimize recoil ( a little ) but I like a little faster shell - so my primary load is 1 oz of 8's at around 1225 fps ( or a little over 3 Dram ). Its not a load you will find commercially easily. If I buy throw away shells - I usally buy the Rio in whatever I can find with 8's ( as long as they are at least 1200 fps, I don't worry about it ).

On a sporting clays course ( 100 targets ) - I will carry

5 boxes of 1 oz 8's ( for most presentations )
1 box of 1 oz 9's ( if I have a close target )
1 box of 1 1/8 oz 7 1/2's ( for those long crossers )


Not to get into your head too much / but it makes a difference if you can see the belly of a target ( its easier to break ) - than if it stay under heavy power and on edge the whole time you can see it. Rabbit targets are a little harder - so I will usually put in 7 1/2's on rabbits ....

I shoot 9's or 8's for Skeet all the time in a 12ga or a 20ga. I shoot 9's in a 28ga or .410 ( because as you go down in gague, you have less pellets in the shell ( a standard 20ga has 7/8 oz , a 28ga 3/4 oz, a .410 1/2 oz .....). Beyond that - its all pesonal preference.
 
Great info... I really appreciate all this stuff. It has greatly eased my mind.

(1) On another topic, specific to the SuperSport since BigJimP has one, what CHOKE (of the ones that come with it; the lettering scheme means nothing to me (yet)) would you recommend for an INDOOR range, shooting paper at 25 yards max? I assume I don't want a wide spread that may hit the target holder (metal clips on a wire near the ceiling) which could cause a nasty ricochet. I know not to try to go for head shots on human shaped targets, but what else should I know?

(2) At the range (indoor or otherwise), is it inconsiderate not to use a shell catcher? At the indoor range, there are lane dividers, so I imagine I may just have to be most worried about the shell hitting ME (after hitting the divider). Thoughts? [No one cares about semi-auto pistol casings flying around, but I'm given to understand that shot shells are another matter.]
 
SuperSport comes with 5 chokes - Cyclinder, Improved Cyclinder, Modified, Improved Modified, Full.

I would think a Cyclinder choke is plenty for anything under 25 yards / that's the choke I shoot at Skeet with the Super Sport.

A shell catcher is an issue when you shoot Trap because there will be shooters standing about 8 feet to the right of you - and you don't want your hulls bouncing off of them or their guns .... It is not a factor on Skeet or Sporting Clays ( but its polite to police up your hulls after the round / or at the end of the day ).

Whether you need it at an indoor range or not - is up to your range management. In general, I take a dim view of anyone shooting a shotgun at an indoor pistol range - the muzzle blast is pretty tough on anyone around you trying to shoot. I would suggest you move away from everyone if you can.

The Super Sport is a sporting, clay target gun primarily .... and you should take it to a pattern board with Target loads ( like 1 oz of 9's ) ..... I don't see any reason to be shooting it indoors / but that is up to you.
 
oneounceload said:
jg001 said:
Zippy... is there REALLY much difference between 3 and 3 1/4 drams?
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Short answer - yes.

You should go to a local store and buy a box of 2-3/4, 3, and 3-1/4 dram shells and try them out. You'll notice more recoil from the faster shells, more "thump" to your shoulder, but they won't break the targets any better.....in fact, if you're shooting a lot, by the end, you may actually start to miss more targets due to fatigue
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oneounceload beat me to the post, and I concur 100%.

Yikes, I'm just now recovering from sticker shock after a visit to Winchester's official site. I couldn't believe their MSRPs on shot shells. Luckily, they are heavily discounted.

Here are some 2 3/4" 12-ga target shell links:
Winchester AA 3 dram Trap or* Skeet WAAM12
Winchester AA 2 3/4 dram Trap or* Skeet WAA12
Remington STS 3 dram Trap RSTS12LH
Remington STS 3 dram Skeet RSTS12H
Remington STS 2 3/4 dram Trap or* Skeet RSTS12L
*Specify #7 1/2 shot for Trap or #9 for Skeet
 
Thanks for the compliment Zippy

It just drives me nuts to see folks who are new go for that "bigger, faster, badder is better" attitude without realizing the unnecessary punishment to their shoulder, (which they WILL notice when they're older), nor realizing that like good BBQ, low and slow is the way to go......

OP- it takes approx 3 pellets to break a bird; the difference in lead at 45 yards between 1150, 1200, 1250, and 1300fps is negligible....think of it this way - would you rather be boxing with a 5 year old hitting you 100 times, or (insert your favorite heavyweight champion) doing the same, if the end result for your end is the same?

With today's shells, and reloading equipment, you can shoot 12 gauge loads that are like a 28 gauge, in a heavy gun that will reduce both felt AND actual recoil.........Getting the snot beat out of you by that is not macho or cool.

Of course, if the gun doesn't fit, it won't matter that much.....

Good luck in your quest
 
In general, I take a dim view of anyone shooting a shotgun at an indoor pistol range - the muzzle blast is pretty tough on anyone around you trying to shoot.
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Much like my S&W500, I expect to shoot a little bit here and there (indoors), but not enough to bludgeon those around me with the noise for very long. This is consistent with others that shoot similar weapons -- i.e. they probably get off 10-15 shots then switch back to pistols. There are some visits (like this past weekend) when the range is virtually empty, which would be more ideal for a higher shell count.

I'm trying to find an outdoor range and will probably get more into that once I pick up a rifle & scope combo (that's my next project; well after this one).
 
oneounceload

You're welcome -- GMTA!:)
I'm no fan of recoil. As a 4-gun skeet shooter, the majority of my practice is with the .410. Most competitors will agree, skeet tournaments are won and lost with the little gun. More than once I've started a tournament with a 100-straight in the morning's 12 or 20-ga event only to have the wheels come off in the afternoon's .410 event (and, I'm far from alone in this).
It takes continual practice to maintain the finesse required to work the .410, and switching back to 12-ga can be a rude awakening. I load the 12-ga at 1150 fps, and in Doubles I'll usually drop to 1 or 7/8-oz for the first shot.
To mitigate recoil and try to make the different gauges seem as close as possible, I shot a large frame O/U with ported barrels, a Joe Shiozaki air cushion stock, Kick-eez pad and a Kolar barrel weight (when the tubes are out). Also, my 12-ga reload recipes are strongly influenced by pressure data. I'm a big fan of Green Dot in Federal paper hulls.
 
:)

I just placed an order for the Benelli SuperSport, item #10635 (30" barrel, Carbon Fiber Finish). Price was $1799 (brand new). Probably take a week or so for it to come in.

Now... what ELSE should I pick up as a new shotgun shooter (other than shells)? Do I need a shoulder pad for this thing? Assume I'd be shooting light loads (as directed, above) and remember that this particular Benelli has their ComforTech thing going on.

BigJimP -- is it worthwhile to order up the extra combs and/or recoil pads (the ones specific to Benelli offered as accessories)? [Actually, it would appear that the gun comes standard with the THICKEST recoil pad, so I'll leave that as is... perhaps I'll just order up the other two combs for the hell of it.]
 
While ya'll are talkin' about guns valued way above my entire arsenal including ammo and most of my electronics combined... Things I try to share with new shooters is not brand or gun specific. First is shoot a ton of light loads to learn to point. Also include alot of clays of course. A cheap thrower and a few cases of birds shot over an open field amongst buddies is far cheaper than the gun club... I liken it to good ol' boys street racin' before movin' to the track.
to beat the inherent flinch factor you may find a shoulder pad very helpful even if the gun a soft shooter. Shooting hot loads like buckshot mixed with the light loads can point out the flinch but don't let it make it worse.
For folks just getting into hunting or HD pump guns I always suggest shooting with a buddy and take turns loading each others mag full so you never know if it is a hot load or light load next. To really see where you stand also have the buddy load varying amounts of shots... Nuttin' points out flinch like dropping the hammer on an empty chamber:o:D
But for the shooting sports I am far from a source of advise:rolleyes:
Brent
 
Now... what ELSE should I pick up as a new shotgun shooter (other than shells)?
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Let's see, I'm probably forgetting some stuff, but you can start with:
  • Shooting glasses
  • Ear protection
  • Vest (additional recoil pad) or belt shell pouch
  • Cleaning gear
  • Shell catcher
  • Assembly lube and wipe-down cloth to be kept in the case.
  • Choke tube holder (if not provided w/ gun)
  • Small kit (to fit in case) for any adjustment and take-down tools specific to the gun not provided.
  • Range bag for shells, hulls and accouterments.
  • A class in basic shot-gunning will help any newbie avoid many of the common mistakes.
  • Basic instruction class/pamphlets/videos for the various sports you're going to give a try.
  • Name tags for the case and gun.
  • A small diary / log book. Do yourself a favor and record anything pertinent you learn as you get into shot gunning and this gun. It'll help you avoid repeating mistakes in the future.
 
That's a good price - congratulations.

Zippy covered a list well ...

I find the higher comb pad fits most people better than the stock one / but there is only one optional comb pad I believe. Nothing wrong with waiting / Mann and sons in midwest has them in stock usually - takes only 4 or 5 days to get them. Most dealers don't stock them.

I would not order the other butt pads - especially if you don't know what your length of pull is at this point.
 
There is a lot of biased and downright distorted and untrue info in this thread about gas operated shotguns.

Comments that they don't cycle as fast as Benelli shotguns, and that shooters have to actually wait for follow up shots are utter and complete hogwash. And yes, while they do require more cleaning maintenance, to claim that they have to be cleaned after only 100 to 150 shots is equally ludicrous and outlandish.

Gas operated shotguns clearly have the edge in better absorbing recoil. And if one looks at the top target shooters in the nation that are shooting semiautos, you see a lot more Berettas than you do Benellis. People would not be using Berettas and Browning Gold shotguns in competition so much if they were not utterly reliable guns.

And the impression left here about the street price of Berettas is also very flawed. To say that one has to spend $1,400 to get a Beretta is not at all true either.

I really shop around whenever I buy something, and I've been able to find great deals on all of my Beretta semiautos with a little effort. Looking at the original post in this thread and the specs that were requested, the standard blued Beretta 391 Urika II with a plain black synthetic stock would do all that was requested very very, nicely, and at a small fraction of the price of the Benelli SuperSport. In fact, to be more specific, it can actually be obtained for $1,100 less.

I've bought some of my new Berettas from Tanner's Sport Center. I've yet to find any dealer with better prices on new Berettas than some of the special sale deals that he manages to get from the factory.

Here is a photo of Ray Tanner at his store:

DSC_0201.jpg


And here is a link to his website:

http://www.tannerssportcenter.com/


He also puts a lot of his special sales up for auction on gunbroker.com Here are some examples:

He has the latest second generation Beretta 391 Urika II with a plain black synthetic stock that I mentioned earlier on sale for only $699:

http://gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=128567810

He has the very TOP, TOP of the line Beretta 391 competition shotgun, the Teknys Gold, for only $1,349:

http://gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=128506290

Want to get a fantastic hunting shotgun that can also shoot 3.5 inch magnum shells, well, he has the newest Beretta 391 Extrema 2 in plain black synthetic stock for only $899:

http://gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=128518223


These guns are all far better values than a Benelli SuperSport at $1,800, in my opinion.

Beretta autoloaders are fabulous guns, and they are all that I now shoot myself, and I could easily buy any shotgun that I could want.

Here are my two 391's that I mainly now shoot now for all of my hunting and target shooting needs. The top gun is a 391 Extrema 2, and the lower gun is a 391 Gold Edition Sporting Clays model:

two.jpg


And here are a couple of older Beretta Deluxe edition 390 shotguns that I added to my collection as collectibles. I've only shot the lower one, but it shoots just as great as my newer 391's

beretta_390s_email1.jpg


Both guns are so beautiful, though, that I really cannot justify using them at all.

.
 
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We obviously disagree Lance - and while you're entitled to your opinion on the gas guns .... let's be honest here - there are very few competitive shooters, let alone national caliber shooters, shooting semi-autos in Skeet, Trap or Sporting Clays.

O/U's clearly dominate Skeet, Trap and Sporting Clays both locally, regionally and nationally for a lot of reasons.
 
Actually Big Jim - the current national sporting clays champ, Anthony Matarese Jr., shoots a Beretta gas gun

I have shot many of both over the years, and could never tell any difference on quick follow-up shots. I know the lighter Benelli kicked more with the same load......Lighter guns will kick more, plain and simple fact of physics.....while certain actions may reduce FELT recoil, actual recoil will still what it is.....using a heavier gun with light loads reduces recoil, but using light loads gives SOME semis snits of fit in the operating arena.
 
I forgot about A. Matarese Jr .... you're right OneOunce and he is certainly a talented shooter - but I don't recall any of the other pros shooting them .... although one of the better shooters in my area was using a Beretta gas gun a few years ago - he has switched to a Krieghoff O/U. So I'll still stand by my statement of "only a few".

I understand the issue on lighter guns - you're right about the physics - but what we're taking about is Felt Recoil - since its the only one that really matters. I still maintain the Benelli Super Sport, with the Comfort Tech which is the only way it comes, shoots as soft as any of the gas guns ( although I don't have a way to measure it ). The Benelli's with wood stocks - that cannot have the comfort tech system in them - will definitely give you more recoil than the gas guns, in my view.

I've shot many of the gas guns too - and I still say there is a hesitation on most gas guns firing the 2nd shell with light or heavy loads. However, I think the gas guns are getting better - as they continue to refine them vs the older 1100's, the older Beretta 390's, etc. - and I see the ads where Winchester and others claim they now have the fastest cycling gun ...

I agree, the cycling issue on semi-autos with light loads is a concern - my Super Sport will not cycle any load under 1200 fps - but it has no problem cycling 7/8 oz loads at 1200 fps regardless of what the Benelli manual says. I don't know how light a load the Beretta gas guns will cycle reliably - but I see guys having issues with light loads on Beretta 390's, 391's, Browning gold's etc. - but it may be because they aren't keeping them clean and well lubed. I keep my Benelli a little on the wet side / and I think it makes a difference in reliability - but it makes no sense to me to shoot a dirty gun - gas or inertia. If I am shooting a semi-auto in competition - and there is a flight in the morning and another in the afternoon - I will clean that gun, between flights ( especially if its a gas gun ). But I do the same thing with my semi-auto handguns too - like 1911's.

There are strong opinions on all sides of this issue on inertia vs gas guns - but I have never said the Beretta's or any other gas-operated were bad guns / but they are not, in my opinion, the best choice in the market today - despite the premium price for a Benelli.

While a semi-auto in not my primary gun in any gague - I've been lucky, and this point in my life, I can afford to buy and shoot any gun I want - if, in my opinion, there was a better semi-auto shotgun than the Super Sport I would say so and I would buy it and be shooting it. And I will tell you this, I will continue to keep an open mind on the gas guns - things do change.
 
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