New to shotguns - looking for semi-auto - advice on used sought
- Thread starter rhinonewshooter
- Start date
Last time I took their advise went broke... Spent my last $2.00 on a shot size bottle of booze and told the wife I drank my paycheck so she wouldn't ban me from TFL... Now I am a non-drinker...
lol... Not really but it is true for many.... Klawman is their latest victim!
Brent
lol... Not really but it is true for many.... Klawman is their latest victim!
Brent
pabuckslayer08
New member
Well for that budget I would rule out the Remintons now, I have a 1100 and 11-87 and wouldnt buy them over again. I would look for a used Beretta 391 or Benelli M2 or SBE2 but they may cost a little more. But if new is your style CZ is tuff to beat these days man. Very nice looking at a good cost and they shoot very well for the price.
http://www.cz-usa.com/products/view/cz912/
http://www.cz-usa.com/products/view/cz912/
Drummer101
New member
I have a beretta 3901 and it is not the limiting factor when I go shooting.
Got it for $575
Newer than the 390 but does not have the hard cleaning like the 391
Got it for $575
Newer than the 390 but does not have the hard cleaning like the 391
TheKlawMan
Moderator
Now, now, hogdogs. It's hard to be made an unwilling victim and I did my own thing and got a used stand alone reloader. (True, I had to spend $7 on new parts to get it up to snuff.)
Stick with a used semi, rhino, and probably get a 12 gauge. But before buying, take your son out and rent a semi 12 to see if he can handle the recoil, of which much is absorbed by the gas system.
Ask these guys what they think of using some kind of an auxiliary but pad so that your son can shoot a shorter stock, but you can shoot it with a slip on pad to lengthen the stock.
Stick with a used semi, rhino, and probably get a 12 gauge. But before buying, take your son out and rent a semi 12 to see if he can handle the recoil, of which much is absorbed by the gas system.
Ask these guys what they think of using some kind of an auxiliary but pad so that your son can shoot a shorter stock, but you can shoot it with a slip on pad to lengthen the stock.
If I were buying used I look at an Beretta 390's and Remington 1100/11-87's. You can pick up a "Premier" for about $400-500, that will have better blueing and wood than the current 11-87's. A used Beretta with walnut stocks will run about the same. These are great guns that with minimal mtc will give a lifetime of service.
New, I would look look at Beretta AL390/3901. It will outlast and out perform anything at its price point. You get adjustable stocks and Mobile chokes for 550-650. Many folks consider the Beretta 390 the finest gas operated autoloader ever built.
New, I would look look at Beretta AL390/3901. It will outlast and out perform anything at its price point. You get adjustable stocks and Mobile chokes for 550-650. Many folks consider the Beretta 390 the finest gas operated autoloader ever built.
rhinonewshooter
New member
The upselling continues - looks like I'm searching for a Baretta or a Benelli now instead of the 1100. It makes sense, new technologies etc. I also really want a shotgun with a decent walnut stock.
There is a show in Dayton next weekend that I may try to get to. I'm in Cincinnati and would prefer to drive less than an hour to get to a show. Other than spending my money, I'm not in a huge hurry. There is a store in Lebanon, called the Country Attic I think, that is supposed to have a good collection of new and some used shotguns. If I can get away from the house for an hour or two, I may make a run up there soon as well.
Lots to look at and understand.
There is a show in Dayton next weekend that I may try to get to. I'm in Cincinnati and would prefer to drive less than an hour to get to a show. Other than spending my money, I'm not in a huge hurry. There is a store in Lebanon, called the Country Attic I think, that is supposed to have a good collection of new and some used shotguns. If I can get away from the house for an hour or two, I may make a run up there soon as well.
Lots to look at and understand.
Come on now HogDog ...you're not "victims" ....but sharks have to eat too...
" like a hooker at a liquor convention" ...now my feelings are hurt .../but at least now I know there are liquor conventions ....
Wait a minute ....how about looking at all the money us old guys are saving you ....by imparting our words of wisdom ... / you might have to wade thru a little bs too ...but still
" like a hooker at a liquor convention" ...now my feelings are hurt .../but at least now I know there are liquor conventions ....
Wait a minute ....how about looking at all the money us old guys are saving you ....by imparting our words of wisdom ... / you might have to wade thru a little bs too ...but still
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rhinonewshooter
New member
"Wait a minute ....how about looking at all the money us old guys are saving you ....by imparting our words of wisdom ... / you might have to wade thru a little bs too ...but still"
I've been to that Rodeo a few times over at the Woodworking forums. Trust me, you'll save money buying good used tools. True, I just could afford to get more of 'em. Anybody want to trade some old handplanes for one fo these shotguns that have been recommended
I've been to that Rodeo a few times over at the Woodworking forums. Trust me, you'll save money buying good used tools. True, I just could afford to get more of 'em. Anybody want to trade some old handplanes for one fo these shotguns that have been recommended
You're right rhino....
I buy a lot of used guns ...especially older S&W revolvers ...and a few shotguns as well.../ and once you really know what you want - and how to check a used gun - to see if its a good deal or a piece of junk / you can save a lot of money !
But like in anything ...there is a sucker born every minute / and I see a lot of used up junk for sale - in terms of shotguns at my local club for sale every week....and a few good ones ...but you have to know what you're looking at. I don't claim to be an expert in anything ....but I do know Browning shotguns / and just in the Citori lineup alone there are 27 different models, the Cynergy O/U series has another 17 ...and the BT-99 has 8 more ....then there is the BPS series - the A-Bolt - and the Maxus, Gold and Silver series in their semi-autos ...( and that is just current production models in their catalog ) ...not the special order items that some dealers have as well !! And its not just fancy wood or finish that separates the models ...many have very different amounts of drop at the comb and the heel ...and its really confusing to a new shooter ( and thats just one mfg !).
So you're doing the right thing by looking at a lot of guns / talking to a lot of shooters before you make your choice.
I buy a lot of used guns ...especially older S&W revolvers ...and a few shotguns as well.../ and once you really know what you want - and how to check a used gun - to see if its a good deal or a piece of junk / you can save a lot of money !
But like in anything ...there is a sucker born every minute / and I see a lot of used up junk for sale - in terms of shotguns at my local club for sale every week....and a few good ones ...but you have to know what you're looking at. I don't claim to be an expert in anything ....but I do know Browning shotguns / and just in the Citori lineup alone there are 27 different models, the Cynergy O/U series has another 17 ...and the BT-99 has 8 more ....then there is the BPS series - the A-Bolt - and the Maxus, Gold and Silver series in their semi-autos ...( and that is just current production models in their catalog ) ...not the special order items that some dealers have as well !! And its not just fancy wood or finish that separates the models ...many have very different amounts of drop at the comb and the heel ...and its really confusing to a new shooter ( and thats just one mfg !).
So you're doing the right thing by looking at a lot of guns / talking to a lot of shooters before you make your choice.
Trap & Skeet uses two different POA/POI for shooting,
trap normally has the POA to be under the bird/clay, so that the POI is 2/3 higher and centered over the bird/clay, for the bird is rising away from you.
whereas Skeet has the POA/POI almost centered together, as you put the front bead in front of the bird/clay and lead/pull through it, and the pattern is equally around it.
You will drive yourself crazy trying to adjust to two different styles of shooting
and head/neck position.
For trap the longest barrel helps with accuracy and uses a choke normally od MOD but varies accoeding to pattern density, but Skeet normally a shorter barrel is needed for: 1] swinging onto and past the bird/clay and 2] Skeet is normally shoot with the No choke, SK1 or SK 2 .
With the current use of choke tube you and spend $$$ and figure out how to get tubes to meet this dual variant.
It not a simple as it sou nd but it doable.
Are you trying to practice for both upland and pheasants???
I would then recommend to concntrate on Skeet, as it was developed for
simulate hunting as original rules requires the butt be below the belt and up to a three-second delay between the "Pull" and release from the house.
As to what to use, for a semi I have observes that there are more of the new
Bennelli/ Berreta, etc in teh used rack @ Cabela's than the classics, e.g.: A-5, early 1100, maybe you should ask questions are the club as to better longevity and anay local gunsmith as to what they see?
Hope this helps.
trap normally has the POA to be under the bird/clay, so that the POI is 2/3 higher and centered over the bird/clay, for the bird is rising away from you.
whereas Skeet has the POA/POI almost centered together, as you put the front bead in front of the bird/clay and lead/pull through it, and the pattern is equally around it.
You will drive yourself crazy trying to adjust to two different styles of shooting
and head/neck position.
For trap the longest barrel helps with accuracy and uses a choke normally od MOD but varies accoeding to pattern density, but Skeet normally a shorter barrel is needed for: 1] swinging onto and past the bird/clay and 2] Skeet is normally shoot with the No choke, SK1 or SK 2 .
With the current use of choke tube you and spend $$$ and figure out how to get tubes to meet this dual variant.
It not a simple as it sou nd but it doable.
Are you trying to practice for both upland and pheasants???
I would then recommend to concntrate on Skeet, as it was developed for
simulate hunting as original rules requires the butt be below the belt and up to a three-second delay between the "Pull" and release from the house.
As to what to use, for a semi I have observes that there are more of the new
Bennelli/ Berreta, etc in teh used rack @ Cabela's than the classics, e.g.: A-5, early 1100, maybe you should ask questions are the club as to better longevity and anay local gunsmith as to what they see?
Hope this helps.
since you asked about semi auto's my vote is for a browning sweet sixteen. Few years back I got in bad financial trouble and had to sell everything, this shotgun included. I loved this gun, for an auto it hot alot better then I do. it made me look good. the 16ga you can shoot all day without the shoulder painof a 12ga.
I'm looking for another one right now but their owner all like them more then I do apparently
I'm looking for another one right now but their owner all like them more then I do apparently
If you love a 16ga --- that's fine ...but let's be serious here...
A standard 16ga load is 1oz of shot ...and that's a common load in 12ga guns these days ...and if the 12ga is a heavier gun / the 12ga shooting a 1oz load will give less recoil than a 16ga.
16ga shells are more expensive than 12ga or 20ga ...both of which are relatively inexpensive and available anywhere ...where 16ga is 50% to 100% more per box...and around here its closer to 100%.
7/8oz of shot is a standard 20ga load ...and a lot of shooters these days are opting to shoot 7/8 oz loads in a 12ga ( and it might result in less recoil than if you shot the same load in a 20ga gun ---not the same shell, the same load in a 12ga vs a 20ga shell).
Another common misconception - is that a 12ga hits targets harder than a 16ga or a 20ga ...and its not true either. A # 8 pellet coming out of a 12ga - or 16, 20 or even a 28ga ....at 1200 fps ---hits with exactly the same amount of energy regardless of what gague its fired from.
A standard 16ga load is 1oz of shot ...and that's a common load in 12ga guns these days ...and if the 12ga is a heavier gun / the 12ga shooting a 1oz load will give less recoil than a 16ga.
16ga shells are more expensive than 12ga or 20ga ...both of which are relatively inexpensive and available anywhere ...where 16ga is 50% to 100% more per box...and around here its closer to 100%.
7/8oz of shot is a standard 20ga load ...and a lot of shooters these days are opting to shoot 7/8 oz loads in a 12ga ( and it might result in less recoil than if you shot the same load in a 20ga gun ---not the same shell, the same load in a 12ga vs a 20ga shell).
Another common misconception - is that a 12ga hits targets harder than a 16ga or a 20ga ...and its not true either. A # 8 pellet coming out of a 12ga - or 16, 20 or even a 28ga ....at 1200 fps ---hits with exactly the same amount of energy regardless of what gague its fired from.
rhinonewshooter
New member
given that the load differences can be covered, what's the advantage to going with a ga?
the rifleer
New member
He means a single pellet at 1200 fps hits with the same energy regardless of what weapon it is fired from. The advantage to a smaller gauge is it shoots more shot. 1 1/8 oz. shot gives you a higher probability of hitting your target than 3/4 oz. of shot from a 28 gauge.
The pellets themselves carry the same energy regardless, but a 12 gauge has more of them compared to a 20 gauge or 28 gauge.
If you miss with a 20 or 16 gauge, you would have missed with a 12 gauge too. You would have a little more pellets and a slightly higher probability of getting a hit, but not by much. a miss is a miss, so like i said, if you missed with a 20, you would have missed with a 12 too.
The pellets themselves carry the same energy regardless, but a 12 gauge has more of them compared to a 20 gauge or 28 gauge.
If you miss with a 20 or 16 gauge, you would have missed with a 12 gauge too. You would have a little more pellets and a slightly higher probability of getting a hit, but not by much. a miss is a miss, so like i said, if you missed with a 20, you would have missed with a 12 too.
oneounceload
Moderator
Depends - I can load 3/4oz 12 gauge loads that do just fine as well
A 12ga is the most versatile gague ...and you'll have a larger variety of shells to purchase ...from 1 1/8 oz down to 7/8oz of shot in shells.
When screw in chokes came about in the 1980's or so - it changed a lot of this stuff. Prior to that - we had guns for specific birds / with fixed chokes. 40 yrs ago there was not the variety of shells, to buy, that we have today.
So with screw in chokes ...one gun can be used for hunting quail, pheasant, waterfowl ...and Trap and skeet and sporting clays ...by screwing in different chokes and using different shells with a wider variety of shot charges.
My point about the 16ga / was to say the assertion that a 16ga recoils less - is not necessarily correct. The 16ga has been left out / because we have a variety of 1 oz shells you can buy today in a 12ga or in a 20ga ...leaving the gague in the middle of the 12ga and 20ga (the 16ga ) out in the cold. We also don't shoot any "registered shoots" in skeet, sporting clays,etc in a 16ga / where we do shoot 12ga, 20ga, 28ga and .410 events. You can shoot a 16ga in a 12ga event ..if you want / but no reason to these days.
Buy a 12ga or a 20ga and you'll have a very versatile gun / that you can do many things with ....especially if it has screw in changeable chokes and either a 28" or 30" barrel / save the 16ga, 28ga and .410's for consideration as your 4th or 5th gun ...probably.
I still have a 16ga bolt action gun ...I've had for 50 yrs ...not looking to get rid of it ...but I wouldn't buy a 16ga O/U either ....where I do have Browning O/U's with 30" barrels in 12ga, 20ga, 28ga and .410 ...and I shoot them a lot.
When screw in chokes came about in the 1980's or so - it changed a lot of this stuff. Prior to that - we had guns for specific birds / with fixed chokes. 40 yrs ago there was not the variety of shells, to buy, that we have today.
So with screw in chokes ...one gun can be used for hunting quail, pheasant, waterfowl ...and Trap and skeet and sporting clays ...by screwing in different chokes and using different shells with a wider variety of shot charges.
My point about the 16ga / was to say the assertion that a 16ga recoils less - is not necessarily correct. The 16ga has been left out / because we have a variety of 1 oz shells you can buy today in a 12ga or in a 20ga ...leaving the gague in the middle of the 12ga and 20ga (the 16ga ) out in the cold. We also don't shoot any "registered shoots" in skeet, sporting clays,etc in a 16ga / where we do shoot 12ga, 20ga, 28ga and .410 events. You can shoot a 16ga in a 12ga event ..if you want / but no reason to these days.
Buy a 12ga or a 20ga and you'll have a very versatile gun / that you can do many things with ....especially if it has screw in changeable chokes and either a 28" or 30" barrel / save the 16ga, 28ga and .410's for consideration as your 4th or 5th gun ...probably.
I still have a 16ga bolt action gun ...I've had for 50 yrs ...not looking to get rid of it ...but I wouldn't buy a 16ga O/U either ....where I do have Browning O/U's with 30" barrels in 12ga, 20ga, 28ga and .410 ...and I shoot them a lot.