New to rifles

S

Simon Yu

Inactive
Well seeing as how the Peoples' Democratic Republic of Maryland restricts handgun sales to 21 and older but I still want to be able to plink targets and defend myself with a firearm, it looks like I'm going to be looking into rifles sooner than I expected.

Of course, the only real knowledge about different rifles I have comes from games like Rainbow Six and Jagged Alliance 2 and fansites devoted to the equipment portrayed in them, which doesn't really apply to civilian legal rifles.

I've read recommendations for .22 calibers as a starting gun. I'm wondering if this is the same as .223 or if there's a difference beyond the 3rd significant figure.

In any case, I'd like to get some recommendations for manufacturers and models to ask a nearby gun shop about just so I don't go in there totally clueless. Any help is appreciated.

------------------
"I look at it this way . . . If it gets any worse I'll be too dead to care."

Simon Yu
 
There is a significant difference between .22LR and .223! The former is a low powered rimfire round, the latter is a much more powerful centerfire round. The .223 signifies the bullet diameter, that is similar to the .22LR rimfire. IMO, it's an excellent idea to start with a .22LR for a first gun. It's easy and cheap to shoot, and you can learn 90% of what you will by shooting centerfire calibers. If you shop around, you can pick up a nice .22LR rifle in the $50-60 range used, and they practically give .22LR ammo away. :)
 
If you play rainbow six, you know you must immediately go get an H&K MP-5, preferably in the 10mm version with an optional supressor and of course with navy trigger group. There should be no other choices.

Other than that, you could go with an SKS, a .22 semi-auto, or just about any other gun. You need to help us out and be more specific. How much do you want to spend on ammo? What are you planning on using the rifle for? Plinking, hunting, competition shooting?

Whatever you do, make sure you learn how to use the rifle competently and remember, once you buy that rifle, you no represent all of the gun owners in America. Don't act irresponsibly. The only reason I mention this is you state R6 is your only experience, therefore I figure you might not have been around guns much. Please don't be the, "Guns are cool so I gotta have one" kick and then go off and shoot yourself or someone else. Remember, you have to be responsible with them.

Once you get all that figured out, welcome aboard! Shooting is lots of fun and if you have a real appreciation for it, you will soon discover there are a whole lot of guns out there and never enough money! Good luck.
 
Take Johnwill's advice and get the 22 Long Rifle and put thousands of rounds though it. Its the rifle that really teaches. Just ask the dealer's at the big shops in you area what they have used in this catagory and what would be good. All that you learn will be applicable to any other rifle you ever decide to get.
Take any instructed classes that you can get into, but if you cannot, read the good books on shooting (Jeff Cooper: "The Art of the Rifle", and anything by Jack O'Connner or Elmer Keith).
If at all possible, start shooting at an officered range: they will make sure you follow the rules of safety and these will become ingrained in you after a few visits. This is very important. You want to learn a valuable skill and have safe fun doing it.
Good luck and welcome to the club!
 
If you are good with your hands, and have good manual dexterity--you find it enjoyable to take stuff apart, and you can put it back together--then a semi-automatic (that means self-loading) rifle is fine. Doesn't matter, much, whether the cartridges are held in a magazine which inserts from in front of the trigger guard, or is a tube-like dealie under the barrel.

If you aren't sure of your dexterity, I recommend a bolt-action type, with the magazine inserted from in front of the trigger. Inherently, it's safer for a learner. These are generally more reliable, also, if you buy a used rifle. And less expensive.

A drawback of a semi-auto for a beginner is that you can fall into the bad habit of "spraying and praying", rather than focussing on proper aim and proper control of the trigger as you shoot. They use up ammo faster and thus cost more...

But have fun, as well as being safe!

Best regards, Art
 
Simon - In addition to the good advice you already received, I agree that a .22LR will be an excellent first rifle for you.

Ammo is cheap cheap cheap, thus keeping frequent practice out of the serious wallet denting mode.

One additional suggestion - buy a rifle with iron sights and learn with them first. Learning proper sight picture and focus are important marksmanship skills.

Have fun and shoot safe.

Cliff
 
Well, first off -- welcome to rifles!! I am in the same boat as you. I have to wait a few years to be able to buy a handgun. So in the meantime I buy rifles. I recommend a Marlin bolt-action .22 LR. They are:

1)Accurate -- this makes shooting more fun, a better learning tool, and much more encouraging.

2) Reliable -- this allows you to focus on shooting fundamentals and not whether the next roudn will feed or not.

3) Durable -- you can't destroy a Marlin! This will add to the fun level and certainly keep you more interested. Of course, regular cleaning is required as with any firearm. But you won't have to worry about fouling after so-and-so many rounds and having to worry too much about upkeep. Just clean, oil, and shoot! :)

4) Inexpensive -- they are not that much money. And since they are so reliable and durable, used rifles are usually a great deal.

Go to the gun shop, and mount a bunch of the different models that they have. Pick the one that feels the best and has the sights mounted that you feel most comfortable with. Stay with open sights for a while, then mount a scope later. After you buy it, you'll find out that your new gun is picky about food. Buy as many different brands and types of 22 LR ammo you can find, then shoot three 5-shot groups at 25 to 50 yards in order to find the one that your gun likes the best. Be patient, it's worth it. One thing about why bolt-action over auto. Autos are picky about ammo not only in the accuracy dept., but also in the feeding-reliablility dept. You are much more restricted in ammo use in an auto. With a bolt action, you can find the ammo that gives the best accuracy, but then when you just want to play, you can still use the el-cheap-o stuff without any other problems besides accuracy loss. Get a bolt-action. Enjoy...*do* safety, don't just *think* it!


Hueco
 
In CA here I was prohibited from buying handguns. However, my dad wasn't. I had three handguns before I turned 21. I just had my dad buy two of them and the other I got from my grandpa. If your father or mother love you enough and as long as your People's Republik does not prohibit your possession of a handgun, go for it. Then when I was 22 I got my CCW. Just take the advice of going to a range where a competant range master can give you good instruction on the proper safety precautions. Shooting yourself or someone else at a young age is only going to A) stop your right to bear arms due to you death, B) severely limit your right to bear arms cause you are maimed, C) fortify anti-gun elements arguement that you are not old enough to handle a gun. Get that training and then have a blast. If you have anymore questions, this is the place to ask.
 
Simon,

I read all the advice you got on the other thread. Some of it will get repeated here. We are very glad to welcome you into the world of safe, responsible shooting. The enjoyment in store for you is difficult to describe.

One thing that may not have been said is that the money you spend on your first .22 rifle won't be wasted. Those of us that kept our first .22 rifle think of it as a personal keepsake and revere it. It marks your progress into the world of shooting and you will always look on it with affection. It doesn't have to be a high dollar piece of hardware.

The Ruger 10-22 is by all accounts a great rifle. My personal opinion is that a new shooter should not start with a semi-auto. I saw a .22 lever action in the Wal-Mart display case here in my home town the other day that was a Henry brand. 'Don't know about the quality. It was about $185. Henry is an old respected name in the history of US guns.

I have a hankering for the Stevens-Savage Favorite that has been reintroduced recently. $187 MSRP. Single shot, lever action, tipping block (I think) replica of a classic. Go to the Savage Arms Home Page and check it out. It's the Model 30G.

Good luck.

BTW, the only thing common between the .22 LR and the .223 is the bullet diameter. The ONLY thing. Every other dimension is different. A whole different cartridge.

While I am on the subject. Why don't you buy a reloading manual? Not to start reloading, but to learn about the different cartridges and the firing cycle. It's fascinating reading. I guarantee you will enjoy it. Hornady, Speer or Lyman are very good books with which to begin. I still have mine and refer to them often. They will never go out of use. The only thing you won't find in them is the .22 LR! It's not reloadable.

[This message has been edited by sensop (edited May 10, 2000).]
 
sensop,
The newer Henry's are not quite up to the name(to be kind). Better to spend twice as much for a Winchester 9422 and be happy instead of frustrated. I agree, all things being equal, a semi auto would not be my first choice. However, it seems that the only reliable and inexpensive offerings these days are semi auto's. A 10/22 or even a Marlin Model 60 is worlds better than the mentioned Henry, for less money. IMHO, a properly functioning semi auto is far safer than an unreliable anything else. Just cause it holds more than 1 round, doesn't mean you have to load more than one round ;). You can turn a 10/22 into a single shot, and still have years to grow. My vote, (like it means anything ;) ) goes to the Ruger 10/22, load the magazine with single rounds for the first few hundred shots, and then after getting used to it, load it up and have a plink. Avoid the mass retailers and spend the extra 20 to 30 dollars at a gun store. The advice you can get is worth 10 times that amount. I bought my first .22 (Marlin 60)at K-mart. I figure at $59.00, I overpaid for it.
"Cash or charge"
"Um, any idea where I can shoot this now that I bought it?"
"Cash or charge sir?"
"What ammunition should I try"
"Sir, is that cash or charge?"
"Umm, cash."
Then it sat for a few years until I found a place to shoot.
 
I tend to agree that the Ruger 10/22 is a good starter, if you want to improve it there are miriad(sp) ways: Stocks,Scopes,Heavy Barrels,Hi-Cap Mags,sights etc etc...

The only think I would recommend that you buy with it is several magazines the PC 10rnds are cheap. Also get a varity of 22LR ammo and find out which one operates the rifle the best.

As a general item I recommend either a solid Brass or Aluminium rod or a pull through cleaning unit.

And most importantly HAVE FUN!
 
El Rojo: First off, ROFL! Don't worry, collecting knives has helped to ingrain a sense of safety into me. If anything, I'm more of a "Guns are interesting, must start a collection" person. Most of the power trip feelings that can come with a new and potentially dangerous thing to enjoy have been taken away by computers and knives (Don't think a computer is dangerous? Just watch what a few good games do to your social life :D) though a *drool* factor is always there. Also, my stepfather is the only over 21 person I live with and he has a fear of anything he perceives to be a weapon. He'd probably have a heart attack if he knew how many knives I own but they all look the same to him . . .

Now to everyone: Thanks for the advice. Also, anyone have a link to a page with a glossary of firearm terminology? I understand a pretty good deal of the terms regarding guns but my knowledge of ammo is much more sparse.

------------------
"If you're ever surrounded by a bear, a lion, and a lawyer with only two rounds, shoot the lawyer. Twice."
Simon Yu
 
Simon,
I was conned into buying my first gun. It was entrapment. My co workers asked me real nice if I wanted to go to the gun store with them and then all 3 of the guys put deposits down for AR-15's and told me that the sale price was good, and they could be banned in a year. That was Friday night. Monday after work, we went again, and I put my deposit down for an AR.

I taught myself to shoot halfway decently with the AR (although its hard not to shoot halfway decent with an AR) and then I taught myself how to shoot a hanfgun with a cheap 1911. What I'm saying is get what you want and then take it to the range and shoot it. Accept the input of other shooters and read what people have to say on this board and post your questions no matter how trivial you think it is. The people here are kind and don't my answering newbie questions.

And then return the favor by teaching other people the joys of guns when you feel you are ready to show people the ropes.


------------------
It ain't mah fault. did I do dat?
http://yellowman.virtualave.net/
 
The absolute BEST source for ammunition information are the reloading manuals. Pick one up and browse, you'll learn a lot just from a single manual.

Now really guys, I have to protest the recommendations for an auto to start with. The bolt action is better for learning. It's more reliable because it can use ALL types of ammo. The only bad things that can happen to a bolt-action with unmatched ammunition are dirtyness and accuracy problems. With an auto, poor ammo can cause those PLUS feeding problems. A new shooter wants to do just that: shoot...not dislodge jammed rounds. Sure, they'll (auots) feed 100% reliably with the proper ammo, but what if that "proper" ammo gives 10" groups? What is the rifle good for then? Certainly not going to be fun enough to keep interest. Now, that's an exageration...but the principle is the same. Autos can be just as accurate and reliable as bolts, but it is more of an ordeal (read -- money!) to find the proper ammo. Then what if the good ammo is exotic? It's hard to find and expensive. A bolt action can take everything. I say get a bolt action. Besides, a bolt action can be learned to have the bolt worked very fast with enough practice.


Hueco
 
Rae,

Okay on the Henry lever action. I haven't got back to handle or inspect it. I think we may have to agree to disagree on an a self-loader for a first rifle, but that does depend greatly on the individual and the training he/she gets.

Hueco: <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>The absolute BEST source for ammunition information are the reloading manuals. Pick one up and browse, you'll learn a lot just from a single manual.[/quote]AMEN! And AMEN again. Simon strikes me as a level-headed type and I think he'll do well, especially if he gets kicked off with the Stringer on a range session. I'd take as much advantage of that as I could if I were you Simon.
 
Well, an auto for a first is not really a bad thing, it's just not the best thing IMO. Either way, if he gets a .22 he'll be better setup to start than a lot of beginners.


Hueco
 
all I'm saying is why spend the money twice? I effcectively taught myself to shoot with an AR-15. and have shown about 5 or 6 people the joys of shooting with my ARs. Just get what you want, and you can learn to shoot it well.
There are always multiple ways to do thing, the correct way and a the ways that work.
I'm not saying that starting with a .22 is a bad idea, but it increases the costs by that much.

------------------
It ain't mah fault. did I do dat?
http://yellowman.virtualave.net/
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top