Please excuse my lack of knowledge. I am interested in reloading .308, .243 and .30-30. My uncle gave me press with the reloading dies, powder measure, scale and case trimmer and other odds and ends. He also gave me a box of 30 cal. bullets. They are 165 grain Nosler ballistic tips Boat tails. A box of 6mm 100 grain Spitzer bullets and 30-30 lead bullets. Would anyone have loading information on these bullets? I have the new Lymans 50th edition manual and looked at the Nosler website, but I can not find those bullets listed. Is it capable to use the same powder to eliminate the possibility of mixing? Thank you for your time. I certainly appreciate any information.
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New to reloading
- Thread starter Benny8
- Start date
Sure Shot Mc Gee
New member
All three calibers can be charged with the same powder. But doing so may produce poor efficiency marginal performance and disappointing accuracy in one or all.
Every cartridge and bullet weight has a preference powder. In time when home reloading >discovery is assured.
Every cartridge and bullet weight has a preference powder. In time when home reloading >discovery is assured.
I believe what you will find is there really is no one powder fits all and delivers perfect accuracy. The .243 Winchester being a spawn of the .308 Winchester both fare well with a powder like IMR 4064 and a few others. The .30-.30 Winchester also fares well with IMR 4064. Another good candidate as to powder is IMR 4895 for all three cartridges.
As to good load data? I suggest working from your Lyman 50th Edition manual. You will find that while bullet makers suggest slightly different load data you can do fine just using bullet design and weight and working up. Always start low and work up your loads.
Ron
As to good load data? I suggest working from your Lyman 50th Edition manual. You will find that while bullet makers suggest slightly different load data you can do fine just using bullet design and weight and working up. Always start low and work up your loads.
Ron
Stats Shooter
New member
Welcome to the best hobby on the planet!!!
First, I would suggest doing a lot of research. If no one is there to teach you, you can get some DVD's on the reloading basics from Amazon. They will, at the very least, keep you from doing something dangerous. I was lucky enough that my dad gave me the basics.
Anyway, as far as powder goes, there are some powders that work well in many different cartridges. Often, however, you have to buy specific bullets for specific cartridges to get a powder to perform well across cartridges. .223 and .308 both do well with the same powder under similar circumstances.
I have never accidentally mixed powders, and neither have most folks on this forum....its a non-issue, just don't dump them into the same hopper or container and they will never mix. The labels on powder are pretty clear on whats inside.
The powder companies often have load information online you can get for free. Look up Hodgdon, Alliant, or Western Powders, for instance and you will see they all have information on specific bullets.
Anyway, there isn't enough time and space on an internet thread to help give you the A's, B's, and C's of reloading.....Which is why I would get one of those DVD's or books on reloading 101.
Safety is paramount. Reloading is very safe, but not adhering to the safety rules of reloading is very unsafe.
First, I would suggest doing a lot of research. If no one is there to teach you, you can get some DVD's on the reloading basics from Amazon. They will, at the very least, keep you from doing something dangerous. I was lucky enough that my dad gave me the basics.
Anyway, as far as powder goes, there are some powders that work well in many different cartridges. Often, however, you have to buy specific bullets for specific cartridges to get a powder to perform well across cartridges. .223 and .308 both do well with the same powder under similar circumstances.
I have never accidentally mixed powders, and neither have most folks on this forum....its a non-issue, just don't dump them into the same hopper or container and they will never mix. The labels on powder are pretty clear on whats inside.
The powder companies often have load information online you can get for free. Look up Hodgdon, Alliant, or Western Powders, for instance and you will see they all have information on specific bullets.
Anyway, there isn't enough time and space on an internet thread to help give you the A's, B's, and C's of reloading.....Which is why I would get one of those DVD's or books on reloading 101.
Safety is paramount. Reloading is very safe, but not adhering to the safety rules of reloading is very unsafe.
Wlecome to the group.
I would get another reloading manual. Lyman's is ok, but Hornady and Sierra have a very wide variety of bullet types and powders to go with them.
They also have great info on how to re-load.
Hornady is good one (co favorite with Sierra) even number 9 edition if you can find it is a great one and costs less (10 is current but 9 is a fine start).
Nossler bullets may be old enough to be discontinued . What the ID number on it?
Not a big deal. You just find a similar weight and type e bullet in the book, start at the low end of the powder charges and work up in 5/10 increments.
I don't know Hornady has 165 gr but they do have 168 boat tail and that (assuming the Nossler is) will be close enough.
I don't have my books with me, I doubt there is a good common powder for those 3.
I would guess you will want two.
Powder mix-up is avoided by simply never ever having more than one container of any type on your loading bench .
I get my powder out, get the setup for it and then it stays on top of the bench until I remove the powder from the charger and all the powder is back in it. Then it goes in the powder drawer.
I would get another reloading manual. Lyman's is ok, but Hornady and Sierra have a very wide variety of bullet types and powders to go with them.
They also have great info on how to re-load.
Hornady is good one (co favorite with Sierra) even number 9 edition if you can find it is a great one and costs less (10 is current but 9 is a fine start).
Nossler bullets may be old enough to be discontinued . What the ID number on it?
Not a big deal. You just find a similar weight and type e bullet in the book, start at the low end of the powder charges and work up in 5/10 increments.
I don't know Hornady has 165 gr but they do have 168 boat tail and that (assuming the Nossler is) will be close enough.
I don't have my books with me, I doubt there is a good common powder for those 3.
I would guess you will want two.
Powder mix-up is avoided by simply never ever having more than one container of any type on your loading bench .
I get my powder out, get the setup for it and then it stays on top of the bench until I remove the powder from the charger and all the powder is back in it. Then it goes in the powder drawer.
Welcome to the best hobby on the planet!!!
Hmm, I thought that was stamp collecting?
I would call it the most annoying, frustrating and rewarding at times though!
Benny: That is in jest but while the basics are simple, once you get going its more complicated if you shoot a lot.
Its not impossible or anything, but there are a lot of hidden issues most books don't talk about.
Many you don't need to start with, many are for larger production batches if you bench rest shoot like some of us and shoot a lot. In my case, its often 200 rounds a session. So I have to process a lot of brass.
condor bravo
New member
Use your Lyman 50th as a starting place for your particular bullet weights, you won't necessarily find the exact bullets that you have so go by similar bullet weights. If you want jacketed bullets for the .30-30, 150 and 170 grains are the most popular. You could then use the same powder for the .308 and .30-30, such as 4895 or 4064, but the 100 gr .243/6mm bullets would do better with slower burning powders like 4350. There is probably not a single powder ideal for all three calibers.
Jacketed bullets for the .30-30 should be round nose or flat nose rather than the .308 spire point bullet.
Jacketed bullets for the .30-30 should be round nose or flat nose rather than the .308 spire point bullet.
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Hi. You do not need bullet specific data. You load according to the bullet weight, not who made 'em or their construction(except for solid copper bullets. Don't worry about them right now.).
All Nosler BT's(Ballistic Tip. And they did not invent 'em. CIL did, here in Canada, in the mid to late 1960's. Not called ballistic tips then though.) have a boat tail, but it doesn't matter anyway. BT's are just a type of jacketed hunting bullet.
So after you read your manual's how-to chapter, you can load those 165's(one of the best weights for hunting with a .308. They'll kill any game you care to hunt.) with a sizeable range of powders.
There's really no best anything, but for powders use the one given for the accuracy load in your manual. IMR4064 is your friend for .308.
Only load 90 and 105 grain bullets(100's are close enough) in .243 myself. My rifle(every one is different and will prefer different powders and loads.) likes IMR4350.
Don't load .30-30 myself. However, cast bullets mean you cannot drive 'em as fast as a jacketed bullet without causing leading in your barrel. That does not mean they're no good. A cast bullet will kill a deer just as fast as a jacketed one.
"...eliminate the possibility of mixing?..." As mentioned that's done by not having 2 powder cans on the bench at the same time. Oh, and your bench needs to be solid, but doesn't have to be expensive to build or buy.
"...Hornady and Sierra have..." Data for their bullets only. The Lyman book is far more versatile than any bullet or powder maker's book. More loads using more powders and bullet weights than any bullet or powder maker's book. And their Reference chapters are a really good read.
And don't be afraid to ask any questions you may have here. The only stupid question is the one not asked.
All Nosler BT's(Ballistic Tip. And they did not invent 'em. CIL did, here in Canada, in the mid to late 1960's. Not called ballistic tips then though.) have a boat tail, but it doesn't matter anyway. BT's are just a type of jacketed hunting bullet.
So after you read your manual's how-to chapter, you can load those 165's(one of the best weights for hunting with a .308. They'll kill any game you care to hunt.) with a sizeable range of powders.
There's really no best anything, but for powders use the one given for the accuracy load in your manual. IMR4064 is your friend for .308.
Only load 90 and 105 grain bullets(100's are close enough) in .243 myself. My rifle(every one is different and will prefer different powders and loads.) likes IMR4350.
Don't load .30-30 myself. However, cast bullets mean you cannot drive 'em as fast as a jacketed bullet without causing leading in your barrel. That does not mean they're no good. A cast bullet will kill a deer just as fast as a jacketed one.
"...eliminate the possibility of mixing?..." As mentioned that's done by not having 2 powder cans on the bench at the same time. Oh, and your bench needs to be solid, but doesn't have to be expensive to build or buy.
"...Hornady and Sierra have..." Data for their bullets only. The Lyman book is far more versatile than any bullet or powder maker's book. More loads using more powders and bullet weights than any bullet or powder maker's book. And their Reference chapters are a really good read.
And don't be afraid to ask any questions you may have here. The only stupid question is the one not asked.
I want to correct the above.
While Hornady and Sierra list their bullets, in any given popular weight and even some odd ones (like 125 gr 30 caliber) they can have as many as 8 types.
Those types are all listed with A LOT of different powders.
In that they are no different than Lyman's though they tend to have more bullet types and powders listed.
Lymans is specific to their lead bullets, they don't make a copper jacket bullet of any type so that data is Generic.
While I have nothing against Lyman, Hornady and Sierra are better in that all loads will shoot with no issues in all their bullet types. Their add on sections are no longer what they were.
Hornady and Sierra is very safe data.
My go to is Hornady 10 as its current, Hornady 9 and Sierra is number 2 (I also like the book layout) and Lyman's is a distant 3 (I don't shoot lead though)
Benny8: As you can see there is some disagreement, don't let that discourage you.
Take what you feel are the best practices from all answers.
While Hornady and Sierra list their bullets, in any given popular weight and even some odd ones (like 125 gr 30 caliber) they can have as many as 8 types.
Those types are all listed with A LOT of different powders.
In that they are no different than Lyman's though they tend to have more bullet types and powders listed.
Lymans is specific to their lead bullets, they don't make a copper jacket bullet of any type so that data is Generic.
While I have nothing against Lyman, Hornady and Sierra are better in that all loads will shoot with no issues in all their bullet types. Their add on sections are no longer what they were.
Hornady and Sierra is very safe data.
My go to is Hornady 10 as its current, Hornady 9 and Sierra is number 2 (I also like the book layout) and Lyman's is a distant 3 (I don't shoot lead though)
Benny8: As you can see there is some disagreement, don't let that discourage you.
Take what you feel are the best practices from all answers.
Nosler still makes the 165gr Ballistic tip. The Ballistic Tips got a reputation for being too soft and over expanding in larger game such as elk etc. About 10-12 years ago Nosler addressed the problem by making the copper jacket a little thicker. If your bullets are older than about 10 years they may not be a good option for game larger than deer. The product number may have changed with the tougher jacket, but load data is the same. If the box says simply "Ballistic Tip" they are the older design. If it says "Ballistic Tip Hunting" it is the newer, tougher bullet.
https://www.nosler.com/ballistic-tip-bullet/
They have load data here
https://load-data.nosler.com/
Other good load data here
http://www.hodgdonreloading.com/
All of the powder manufacturers and most bullet makers list data online, just google it.
It would help knowing which powders you have access to. I load for 308 and could offer advice as would most everyone here. It is possible to use the same powder, but you will get poor performance from at least 1 or 2 of the 3. It is best to use powder optimal for each. The good news is that 308 is the easiest round I've ever loaded for. I've used 6-8 different powders and never found a bad load. No bad advice so far on powder choice, but there are others that work well too. It depends on which is available
When looking at load data you may find data for Hornady bullets when you have Nosler, Sierria,Berger, or some other brand of bullets. Most of the time the load data will be pretty close to the same as long as bullet weight is the same. At least as long as you are shooting lower or mid level loads. Once you start approaching max loads you may find one brand of bullet is overloaded while another is still safe to use.
The biggest exception is with any of the solid copper bullets. Load data, even with the same bullet weight is far different.
The bigger problem is brass. Pay attention to the brand of brass recommended in the load data. In my experience Hornady, Winchester, Remington and Nosler brass are close enough to not matter. But Federal brass and military surplus will give you more speed with the same amount of powder. Which means that loads in that brass may well be over pressure before you reach the max weight of the powder charge. And be perfectly safe in other brands of brass.
Primers can matter, but to a much smaller extent. If the load data specifies CCI primers and you have another brand it is safe to substitute. But you'll sometimes get a little slower or faster bullet speed with another brand.
https://www.nosler.com/ballistic-tip-bullet/
They have load data here
https://load-data.nosler.com/
Other good load data here
http://www.hodgdonreloading.com/
All of the powder manufacturers and most bullet makers list data online, just google it.
It would help knowing which powders you have access to. I load for 308 and could offer advice as would most everyone here. It is possible to use the same powder, but you will get poor performance from at least 1 or 2 of the 3. It is best to use powder optimal for each. The good news is that 308 is the easiest round I've ever loaded for. I've used 6-8 different powders and never found a bad load. No bad advice so far on powder choice, but there are others that work well too. It depends on which is available
When looking at load data you may find data for Hornady bullets when you have Nosler, Sierria,Berger, or some other brand of bullets. Most of the time the load data will be pretty close to the same as long as bullet weight is the same. At least as long as you are shooting lower or mid level loads. Once you start approaching max loads you may find one brand of bullet is overloaded while another is still safe to use.
The biggest exception is with any of the solid copper bullets. Load data, even with the same bullet weight is far different.
The bigger problem is brass. Pay attention to the brand of brass recommended in the load data. In my experience Hornady, Winchester, Remington and Nosler brass are close enough to not matter. But Federal brass and military surplus will give you more speed with the same amount of powder. Which means that loads in that brass may well be over pressure before you reach the max weight of the powder charge. And be perfectly safe in other brands of brass.
Primers can matter, but to a much smaller extent. If the load data specifies CCI primers and you have another brand it is safe to substitute. But you'll sometimes get a little slower or faster bullet speed with another brand.
condor bravo
New member
RC20
You seem to be saying that all rifle bullet data by Lyman is generic by weight only rather than by any specific bullet types. Yes that would appear to be the case if you are looking only at the loading data bullet as listed by weight. However, each bullet as specified by weight does refer to a specific bullet type. Take the .308 Win for example which identifies 12 specific bullets that correspond to the bullet as shown with the loading data. All 12 specific bullets can be matched up to the 12 jacketed bullet as designated by weight. For example, the "150 gr jacketed SP" is specifically the Hornady SP 3031; the "175 gr jacketed HPBT" is specifically the 175 Sierra HPBT #2275; and et al throughout the 12 bullet weights that data has been furnished for.
Refer to the Test Components section preceding the loading data.
Lymans is specific to their lead bullets, they don't make a copper jacket bullet of any type so that data is Generic.
You seem to be saying that all rifle bullet data by Lyman is generic by weight only rather than by any specific bullet types. Yes that would appear to be the case if you are looking only at the loading data bullet as listed by weight. However, each bullet as specified by weight does refer to a specific bullet type. Take the .308 Win for example which identifies 12 specific bullets that correspond to the bullet as shown with the loading data. All 12 specific bullets can be matched up to the 12 jacketed bullet as designated by weight. For example, the "150 gr jacketed SP" is specifically the Hornady SP 3031; the "175 gr jacketed HPBT" is specifically the 175 Sierra HPBT #2275; and et al throughout the 12 bullet weights that data has been furnished for.
Refer to the Test Components section preceding the loading data.
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I have the new Lymans 50th edition manual
READ it; lots of good info in it.
Sure Shot Mc Gee
New member
Looking thru different Rifle powders seen in the introduction of my Speer #13 hand loaders book. There are a few specific powders I would consider more universal in their use than some others. IMR 3031 _IMR 4350_are two of those powders that are so handy to have on anyone's reloading bench.
Thank you for all your information. It is greatly appreciated. I purchased some IMR 4350 last night at the local Runnings. I was surprised at the amount of different powders they had on hand. This should get me started. I am mostly reloading for hunting. By reloading, I will be able to shoot more than I do now. What are the steps to finding my most accurate load? Start at the lowest grain and load 1 or 2 shells, then add a little more to the next couple, and so on?
Sure Shot Mc Gee
New member
Some would say start at the low end of a powder recipe build a couple cartridges fire em to see how close their grouping is at a distance of not more than 50-60 ft. Not accurate enough. Add a 1/2 grain of additional powder to the previous powder charge and follow the same shooting procedure. Repeating over & over. Bullseye accuracy at that short distance is assured. But how tight the grouping is? That is what's most concentrated on. As those charges build to a point where they produce the tightest grouping and your adding of additional powder has a tendency to open the group a bit wider. That prior measure of powder was the most accurate. Sometimes called the "sweet spot of powder measures" Keep in mind there are more than one sweet spot in a powders measure recipe. Usually there's a Low measure'd sweet spot a Mid range sweet spot and a near Max sweet spot. Once that sweet spot has been discovered at 50 ft. Its time to sight in your rifle at the distance you intend it to shoot. And again you follow the same discovery procedures of addition of powder or maybe reduction in a powders charge. "many times it takes just a tweaking up 2/10th of a grain or down 2/10th of a grain of the current charge to find its new sweet spot at that longer distance."
Welcome to the wonderful, oft confusing and frustrating world of reloading. A very good place to start is The ABCs of Reloading. This text explains the how why and components. The Lyman is a good manual and load data for exact bullets isn't really necessary as you can use similar profile and weight bullet data with starting loads.
K.I.S.S.! I would suggest you concentrate on one caliber first (I'd start with 308, brass, bullets, suitable powders easily found). The Nosler 165s are commonly used in the 308 with a medium burning rifle powder, I use IMR 4064 and IMR 4895 with 150 to 165 gr jacketed bullets. Find a load in your manual before you buy components (if you use Nosler bullets a Nosler manual will give specific data, powder and OAL, for a specific bullet).
Go slow, double check everything, and most important, have fun...
FWIW; I tell new reloaders to pay very little attention to load data from any forum expert, range rat, pet loads website, gun counter clerk or gun shop guru. Published reloading manuals are perfect for data especially for new reloaders. Yes data is available on powder manufacturer's websites, but for now stick with your manuals...
K.I.S.S.! I would suggest you concentrate on one caliber first (I'd start with 308, brass, bullets, suitable powders easily found). The Nosler 165s are commonly used in the 308 with a medium burning rifle powder, I use IMR 4064 and IMR 4895 with 150 to 165 gr jacketed bullets. Find a load in your manual before you buy components (if you use Nosler bullets a Nosler manual will give specific data, powder and OAL, for a specific bullet).
Go slow, double check everything, and most important, have fun...
FWIW; I tell new reloaders to pay very little attention to load data from any forum expert, range rat, pet loads website, gun counter clerk or gun shop guru. Published reloading manuals are perfect for data especially for new reloaders. Yes data is available on powder manufacturer's websites, but for now stick with your manuals...
Benny: Almost any load will be good enough for 50 yards!
I do strongly disagree with 50 feet as a trail distance (pistol yes)
Rifle 50 yards and even that can mask some less than good groups.
100 is far enough out for a good test, you can see the spread much better and assess good groups from less than good ones.
If you are hunting, 1.5 inches if good enough out to 300 yards, and certainly 50 (ergo, 30 - 30 lever action tend to be not very accurate but good enough for that locos in hunting.
As for loads you research what are the good powders for a given cartridge.
308: 4895/Varget/4064 are good ones. 4350 may be as well, just have not used it there.
Also bullet weight is a factor, some powders better with lighter, some heavier.
Pick your power, start at the low end, load up 10 or 15 of each, then add 1/2 grain and repeat.
I like to do 15 and that gives me 3 rounds of 5 (hunting tends more to 3 shots, so 10 would do it)
You should find one load that shoots tighter than another.
Then you refine that to 3/10 on either side of that one that shot well.
After than you can seat the bullet a bit further rout (ad long as not in the lands, i.e. close bolt and open and if its sticking you have gone too far, don't shoot those and test all of the ones out further that do that, pressure issue come into play )
You can seat deeper (.010 steps) You may find it like that in a given depth.
Running from low to high there is usually two nodes, one below mid load and one above mid load. Sometimes there are several. Pick whichever one you like best. at 50 yards its not a big deal.
Thin hunting barrel rifle don't like getting hot, they start to throw erratic shots.
As hunting is usually one shot, that is the one you want to focus on.
3 gives you a decent group. If its only patterns two good ones that should be good as well.
Two quick shots and then a cool down of the barrel if needed. Not more than 3 fast shots with a thin hunting barrel.
Again, 1.5 inches at 100 is good for a long way. That's 3/4 inch at 50.
I do strongly disagree with 50 feet as a trail distance (pistol yes)
Rifle 50 yards and even that can mask some less than good groups.
100 is far enough out for a good test, you can see the spread much better and assess good groups from less than good ones.
If you are hunting, 1.5 inches if good enough out to 300 yards, and certainly 50 (ergo, 30 - 30 lever action tend to be not very accurate but good enough for that locos in hunting.
As for loads you research what are the good powders for a given cartridge.
308: 4895/Varget/4064 are good ones. 4350 may be as well, just have not used it there.
Also bullet weight is a factor, some powders better with lighter, some heavier.
Pick your power, start at the low end, load up 10 or 15 of each, then add 1/2 grain and repeat.
I like to do 15 and that gives me 3 rounds of 5 (hunting tends more to 3 shots, so 10 would do it)
You should find one load that shoots tighter than another.
Then you refine that to 3/10 on either side of that one that shot well.
After than you can seat the bullet a bit further rout (ad long as not in the lands, i.e. close bolt and open and if its sticking you have gone too far, don't shoot those and test all of the ones out further that do that, pressure issue come into play )
You can seat deeper (.010 steps) You may find it like that in a given depth.
Running from low to high there is usually two nodes, one below mid load and one above mid load. Sometimes there are several. Pick whichever one you like best. at 50 yards its not a big deal.
Thin hunting barrel rifle don't like getting hot, they start to throw erratic shots.
As hunting is usually one shot, that is the one you want to focus on.
3 gives you a decent group. If its only patterns two good ones that should be good as well.
Two quick shots and then a cool down of the barrel if needed. Not more than 3 fast shots with a thin hunting barrel.
Again, 1.5 inches at 100 is good for a long way. That's 3/4 inch at 50.
The .243 Winchester being a spawn of the .308 Winchester both fare well with a powder like IMR 4064 and a few others. The .30-.30 Winchester also fares well with IMR 4064
I don't load the .308WIN, but the 7-08 is close .... I have burned quite a lot of IMR 4064 in that, and the .30/30, as well .... I think I've used that powder in nearly every rifle I own, at one time or another, from 7.62x54r on down...... very versatile.