I carry a KP95DC and it works for me(I'm on my 3rd 3year permit). My state is an either/or open/concealed so I really don't worry about how well it's concealed. If I really want to be concealed, I carry a Ruger SP101 38 in a good fitting shoulder holster. You would be surprised how little attention most people pay to whether your carry gun peaks. Unless it's a really big deal with the law should your piece show, it's not something to get crazy about. Occasionally, I've forgotten to put my cover on and walked in to a store with the "big" Ruger totally in the open on my belt and not a single person noticed( or just didn't care). I tend to pay attention to others who might be packing and have not 100% identified or actually seen a concealed weapon although I have pegged several cops/security people wandering the aisles.
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new to concealed carry, thoughts and ramblings
- Thread starter Coyote WT
- Start date
I am a retired federal law enforcement agent with 38 years experience. I carried daily, at first in uniform and later plain clothes. Fortunately, I really never had anything really bad happen to me. For that I'm thankful. I had some colleagues that said they would never carry a weapon again after retirement, as they were tire of lugging the pistol (Glock 19s) around.
After retirement, DHS let us keep our ID's so we could continue to carry, partly because of all of the people we arrested in our careers. I have always been a "gun person" and chose to continue to carry, which at the time was an HK P2000SK. I never went into any so called bad parts of town and was always cognizant of those around me. But, I still carried every day. Sometimes it would be tempting to leave the pistol at home, especially when the temps were high. However, I still carried it.
I had taken my 94 year old grandmother shopping for groceries one day in her neighborhood. It was in a "good" part of town. During shopping, though, I noticed 2 young males very interested in us. My grandmother had to hold on to the basket to shop, so I helped her with getting her groceries into the basket. When we would get near the front of the store, the 2 males would wander off and "look" at magazines. When we would get to the back of the store, they would be standing at the front of the store looking down our aisle. Finally, they began running at us as fast as they could. No one else was on the aisle but us. I got by HK out and began drawing down on them. When they saw the weapon, they immediately turned around and ran out of the store. I then reholstered my pistol. No one, including my grandmother, had even seen me do this.
I spoke with the manager of the store before leaving to let him know what had happened. He said that 2 weeks before our incident that 2 males had knocked down an elderly woman and took her purse. She suffered 2 broken hips in the assault.
That incident encouraged me to continue to carry my weapon. There is a very good chance that assault could have either very seriously injured my grandmother or killed her, being 94 years old. I'm not a small person, but I knew I could not have effectively stopped the 2 young men before they hit my grandmother. That incident also caused me to continue to carry large caliber pistols. My current carry pistol is the HK45CT. I do not believe if I would have had a .380 that day that I could have stopped the two men. Hitting someone in the head while they're running at you is nearly impossible.
Since then, it has been about 10 years now, and I have not needed my weapon. However, I still carry it daily no matter where I go or what I'm doing. As Clint Smith at Thunder Ranch says, "Carrying a weapon is not supposed to be comfortable, just comforting".
Good luck with your decision. I personally believe you'll find a new level of confidence in yourself if you go through with the CC process.
After retirement, DHS let us keep our ID's so we could continue to carry, partly because of all of the people we arrested in our careers. I have always been a "gun person" and chose to continue to carry, which at the time was an HK P2000SK. I never went into any so called bad parts of town and was always cognizant of those around me. But, I still carried every day. Sometimes it would be tempting to leave the pistol at home, especially when the temps were high. However, I still carried it.
I had taken my 94 year old grandmother shopping for groceries one day in her neighborhood. It was in a "good" part of town. During shopping, though, I noticed 2 young males very interested in us. My grandmother had to hold on to the basket to shop, so I helped her with getting her groceries into the basket. When we would get near the front of the store, the 2 males would wander off and "look" at magazines. When we would get to the back of the store, they would be standing at the front of the store looking down our aisle. Finally, they began running at us as fast as they could. No one else was on the aisle but us. I got by HK out and began drawing down on them. When they saw the weapon, they immediately turned around and ran out of the store. I then reholstered my pistol. No one, including my grandmother, had even seen me do this.
I spoke with the manager of the store before leaving to let him know what had happened. He said that 2 weeks before our incident that 2 males had knocked down an elderly woman and took her purse. She suffered 2 broken hips in the assault.
That incident encouraged me to continue to carry my weapon. There is a very good chance that assault could have either very seriously injured my grandmother or killed her, being 94 years old. I'm not a small person, but I knew I could not have effectively stopped the 2 young men before they hit my grandmother. That incident also caused me to continue to carry large caliber pistols. My current carry pistol is the HK45CT. I do not believe if I would have had a .380 that day that I could have stopped the two men. Hitting someone in the head while they're running at you is nearly impossible.
Since then, it has been about 10 years now, and I have not needed my weapon. However, I still carry it daily no matter where I go or what I'm doing. As Clint Smith at Thunder Ranch says, "Carrying a weapon is not supposed to be comfortable, just comforting".
Good luck with your decision. I personally believe you'll find a new level of confidence in yourself if you go through with the CC process.
orionengnr
New member
You have received some excellent advice so far. I especially subscribe to this line of thinking.
As far as this goes:
I grew up in a small town and we never locked the doors at night. That was a while ago. The world where I grew up no longer exists. Bad things happen in "nice" neighborhoods, because people who live in "nice" neighborhoods have nice stuff... and BGs know that. (I could also go off on a tangent about how our Judicial system does very little to remove the BGs from the general population or the gene pool...but I will refrain.)
That small town I grew up in made national headlines a couple years back when a Really Bad Thing happened there. No place is immune, and there but for the grace of God go each of us.
But if I only carried on days when I expected trouble, then I'd never carry. If I expected trouble when I left home in the morning, I'd stay home.
I don't carry because I expect trouble; I carry because I know that bad things can happen to folks who don't expect it. Think about it. Did any particular murder victim expect to be killed that day when they woke up that morning? Probably not.
As far as this goes:
I hate to be the one to break the news, but that is wishful thinking.If one does not have a job, life style or location that puts their life in jeopardy
I grew up in a small town and we never locked the doors at night. That was a while ago. The world where I grew up no longer exists. Bad things happen in "nice" neighborhoods, because people who live in "nice" neighborhoods have nice stuff... and BGs know that. (I could also go off on a tangent about how our Judicial system does very little to remove the BGs from the general population or the gene pool...but I will refrain.)
That small town I grew up in made national headlines a couple years back when a Really Bad Thing happened there. No place is immune, and there but for the grace of God go each of us.
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Lex Luthier
Inactive
Howdy.
I have been carrying for about a week. I started with a Ruger LC9, and switched to a Ruger 709 because it feels thinner. Either of them ride nice under a suit coat OWB @ about five o'clock.
Then I found a Smith and Wesson .40 cal Tactical on a private sale and decided to carry it for all my errands on the way home. I found that it fits almost perfectly in the small of the back with virtually no shifting. I tried it with an IWB holster today, and it shifted like crazy, and almost fell out at the coffee shop.
Of course, either of them travel well in my shoulder rig, but I am looking for a nicer leather shoulder rig. It takes some getting used to. I would prefer to carry my Kimber 1911, and I think carrying bigger is like swinging two bats, and makes carrying smaller easier.
I have been carrying for about a week. I started with a Ruger LC9, and switched to a Ruger 709 because it feels thinner. Either of them ride nice under a suit coat OWB @ about five o'clock.
Then I found a Smith and Wesson .40 cal Tactical on a private sale and decided to carry it for all my errands on the way home. I found that it fits almost perfectly in the small of the back with virtually no shifting. I tried it with an IWB holster today, and it shifted like crazy, and almost fell out at the coffee shop.
Of course, either of them travel well in my shoulder rig, but I am looking for a nicer leather shoulder rig. It takes some getting used to. I would prefer to carry my Kimber 1911, and I think carrying bigger is like swinging two bats, and makes carrying smaller easier.
Andy Taylor
New member
I carry whenever I legally can. Thankfully that is now most of the time.
Someone once said "Carry every day, or guess right."
Someone once said "Carry every day, or guess right."
the next step
I got up this morning and put on my gun. I still need training to be more confident in the practical application but I know I can hit close enough to where I aim to feel I can get the job done even if it lacks grace (no extra points for style right?).
I got to work this morning and put the gun in my console. I work in a secure building so I won't carry. When I got to my desk I pulled up the company rules and found that my company states you can't even have a gun in your personal vehicle on company property. It did say that there are very specific exceptions and that requires talking to my manager.
I love my management team. They have been very supportive of every one of my team mates. When one considers the vast different between me and them (they republican, me democrate, they Christian, me pagan, them...well there's a lot of differences) their acceptance and understanding of my choices up to this decision made me feel very comfortable in talking to my supervisor.
I explained that it was my intent to carry for personal reasons and pointed out the rule. I assured her that I was legal to carry and that I would leave the weapon in the car but the rule restricting me from having a gun in MY car was contrary to my intent. I pointed out that the right to carry was pretty much worthless if there was nine miles between me and my pistol.
She agreed and is in full support of my rights. We are a major corportation and she needs to check to see what processes need to happen to avoid trouble for anyone involved but I feel good about both my decision to carry and my decision to live within the bounds of my work place to make it as non contentious as possible.
Thanks to each of you for your support and input.
Coyote.
I got up this morning and put on my gun. I still need training to be more confident in the practical application but I know I can hit close enough to where I aim to feel I can get the job done even if it lacks grace (no extra points for style right?).
I got to work this morning and put the gun in my console. I work in a secure building so I won't carry. When I got to my desk I pulled up the company rules and found that my company states you can't even have a gun in your personal vehicle on company property. It did say that there are very specific exceptions and that requires talking to my manager.
I love my management team. They have been very supportive of every one of my team mates. When one considers the vast different between me and them (they republican, me democrate, they Christian, me pagan, them...well there's a lot of differences) their acceptance and understanding of my choices up to this decision made me feel very comfortable in talking to my supervisor.
I explained that it was my intent to carry for personal reasons and pointed out the rule. I assured her that I was legal to carry and that I would leave the weapon in the car but the rule restricting me from having a gun in MY car was contrary to my intent. I pointed out that the right to carry was pretty much worthless if there was nine miles between me and my pistol.
She agreed and is in full support of my rights. We are a major corportation and she needs to check to see what processes need to happen to avoid trouble for anyone involved but I feel good about both my decision to carry and my decision to live within the bounds of my work place to make it as non contentious as possible.
Thanks to each of you for your support and input.
Coyote.
There are other threads on this subject... The crux is mostly about insurance company rules, not supervisors' trust or goodwill... Biggest issue, from what I understand, is that the insurance companies don't want anything to do with huge wrongful death or wrongful injury lawsuits that often result from ANY shootings, whether they might seem justified or not. It's a legal thicket.
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Spats McGee
Administrator
Wow! As soon as I realized that you had discussed it with your supervisor, I expected to read the usual, "she-told-me-it-was-company-policy-and-written-in-granite." I hope that it works out.
For what it's worth, one word in a company policy can make worlds of difference. Consider these two policies:
1) No firearms shall be allowed on company property.
2) No illegal firearms shall be allowed on company property.
For what it's worth, one word in a company policy can make worlds of difference. Consider these two policies:
1) No firearms shall be allowed on company property.
2) No illegal firearms shall be allowed on company property.
I wish you the best of luck in getting your employer to sign off on keeping the gun in the car at the office. I have the same issue. I work for a large corporation with worldwide presence. They have expressly prohibited carrying of weapons of any kind while on company time (they do this because a great deal of our work takes place on customer sites). They prohibit possessing of weapons on company property, including parking lots or garages at all times on the clock or off. The weapons list is long and includes knives above a certain length and certain types of boxcutters. Firearms are of course included.
I addressed this once with HR. I was told that while they cannot prosecute an employee for possessing legal weapons on company property they will terminate any employee who does so immediately as this policy is part of the employment agreement. I ran it by my family lawyer (who admittedly is not an expert in the subject; he's mostly a real estate and business guy, but he is a lawyer) and his opinion was that they were perfectly within their rights and I had better comply or find other employment.
Again, Good Luck!!
I addressed this once with HR. I was told that while they cannot prosecute an employee for possessing legal weapons on company property they will terminate any employee who does so immediately as this policy is part of the employment agreement. I ran it by my family lawyer (who admittedly is not an expert in the subject; he's mostly a real estate and business guy, but he is a lawyer) and his opinion was that they were perfectly within their rights and I had better comply or find other employment.
Again, Good Luck!!
Biggest issue, from what I understand, is that the insurance companies . . .
That is often said, but I am not at all sure it is true. I own my own (very small) business and it has never come up in my insurance policies. (Due to hurricane damages I have had a total of three different insurance companies, two of which you would readily recognize.) I have never heard or read anyone cite the language of an insurance policy that contained such a restriction. Maybe they are out there, but I haven't seen them.
The Immortal
New member
Glad you recognize your need for increased training. Likely it would benefit most people.
I carry for my personal safety. I carry for the safety of my wife. I carry for the safety of my daughter. I carry for the safety of society.
Fate rarely calls upon us at a moment of our choosing.
Stay safe.
I carry for my personal safety. I carry for the safety of my wife. I carry for the safety of my daughter. I carry for the safety of society.
Fate rarely calls upon us at a moment of our choosing.
Stay safe.
Well, here's just one little article that speaks somewhat to the employer/employee/gun liability issue that will be heating up more, it seems... Click to view:
http://www.socialvibes.net/BRINGYOURGUNTOWORK.html
As an example, this excerpt from the above article is relevant to the subject. I'm not taking any stance here... just linking data:
"Workplaces that allowed guns were about five times more likely to experience a homicide as those where all weapons were banned, concludes a May 2005 report in the American Journal of Public Health that analyzed North Carolina employers. The Bureau of Labor Statistics says workplace shootings caused 420 deaths in 2009 and 421 in 2008."
http://www.socialvibes.net/BRINGYOURGUNTOWORK.html
As an example, this excerpt from the above article is relevant to the subject. I'm not taking any stance here... just linking data:
"Workplaces that allowed guns were about five times more likely to experience a homicide as those where all weapons were banned, concludes a May 2005 report in the American Journal of Public Health that analyzed North Carolina employers. The Bureau of Labor Statistics says workplace shootings caused 420 deaths in 2009 and 421 in 2008."
CWKahrFan
Interesting article. Thanks for the input and the link. I love the imagery of gun fights in the parking lots and the assumption that this is all stemming from the horror in Tucson but that's the author's right I guess.
I think the best solution I've seen through this thread is simply don't park on company property if they won't make an exception. The building next to ours is vacant. If need be I'll find out if it's considered company property.
Wouldn't it be great if the bulk of the law abiding responsible gun owners were not punished for the action of those who do bad or just plain dumb things?
Interesting article. Thanks for the input and the link. I love the imagery of gun fights in the parking lots and the assumption that this is all stemming from the horror in Tucson but that's the author's right I guess.
I think the best solution I've seen through this thread is simply don't park on company property if they won't make an exception. The building next to ours is vacant. If need be I'll find out if it's considered company property.
Wouldn't it be great if the bulk of the law abiding responsible gun owners were not punished for the action of those who do bad or just plain dumb things?
Secure it in a lockable non visible location (glove box?) and keep it to yourself. If for some disatrous reason you actually needed it and made other company personnel aware of its existence on company property, then the defense value of it being available outweighs the legal ramifications IMO. Sure getting fired would suck, but getting mugged and killed gassing up on your way to/from work would suck alot more. YMMV
I often work by myself for extended periods of time in a rural area. There is a massive availability of anhydrous ammonia here (ingredient for meth production) and it's not uncommon to see sketchy people out cruising roads they have no business cruising. I have grown quite fond of carrying my G36 owb in a fobus at about 4:30. I am legal for CCW & open carry is legal too so no worries there. Odds are the only rabid vermin I'll ever draw on will be of the four legged variety. But then I never did like gambling much. Carrying a firearm makes me feel comfortable so I carry. Very few people know I ccw and that's fine by me.
There is a massive availability of anhydrous ammonia
We use locks in Iowa, but these folks are found everywhere. Is why we carry a 22 rifle in the tractor, truck, combine......
Had a couple guys get a lock off of one tank, both were burned bu the ammonia badly. That stuff will kill a person.
BigJimP, I feel the exact same way only I don't have a few million in assests but I have about 1.2million in assests and I sure as hell don't want to risk that, I joined the Armed Citizens' Legal Defense Network(ACLDN) just this past week. They will help defend you with monetary and legal help in the unfortunate case you are involved in a self defense shooting.