New Skeet gun
- Thread starter sweetshot
- Start date
P.S. Can you guys give me some advice on manufacturers and pricing? I've been perusing the internet and found a bunch of options. Funny, when I first heard you guys talking about sub gauges, my impression was a full length tube with a choke for the smaller tube. Is that available? I'm totally in the dark, but it seems like a good option for my 12ga Citori. I know I'm jumping ahead a little, but I just love the experimentation!
Full length tubes need to be fit ...by a competent shop ...like Briley in Texas ( for Briley tubes ).
Often - when you tube a gun like a 12ga ...you'll need to change the Inertia triggers (typical in Browning O/U's ) to mechanical triggers for sub gagues like the 28ga and .410.
The ideal set-up is to go with a carrier barrel ( that carry's the tubes / it cannot be shot on its own - it can only be shot with the tubes installed). But the idea is then you have a 12ga barrel - and the carrier barrel with a set of tubes in it, is the same weight as the 12ga barrel ....making shooting all 4 gagues identical.
If you don't go with a carrier barrel - then you have an issue / when you tube a 12ga barrel - the tube sets for 20ga say ...add about 10 oz to the weight of the gun / and it changes the feel and swing characteristics a lot.
That is partly why some guys have a 12ga tubed....and then they shoot the 20ga tube set in all 20ga and 12 ga events --- because transitioning back and forth to the 12ga stand alone vs 12ga with the 20ga tubes in it is difficult in competition.
In my stand alone guns ....12ga weighs about 8 1/2 lbs ....20, 28 and .410 weigh about 7 1/2 lbs ....so I add 8oz under forend and 8oz inside stock ...to get the 3 light guns up to the same spec as the 12ga. Keep balance point the same ...keep the feel the same. But I still have 4 gun cases to load --to go to a tournament...and 4 receivers and 4 slightly different triggers ( they are all about the same...breaking right around 4.25 lbs ...but not quite as good as a stand alone carrier barrel and tube sets.
If you had a pair of Browning Citori XS Skeet guns ( 2 guns will cost you about $6,000 ) ....you could send both guns to Briley ...they would bore out one barrel and turn it into a carrier barrel ....and then fit both barrels to one receiver. Make the trigger adjustments to both receivers ...and fit the tubes ...and buy the chokes, etc ...and a case to lug it all around in....( for about $ 5,000 I think ) - if you provide the guns and both barrels - and you're into it for about $ 11,000.
From gun mfg's like Kolar and Krieghoff ...and proabably Perazzi and Blaser -- you can buy guns with carrier barrels and 12ga barrels - and have either Kolar or Briley tube sets fit for the guns...( prices for these guns with all of that included - are $ 15,000 - $ 18,000 probably ) if you stick with fairly standard configurations - if you go to upgraded wood, engraving, etc you can easily get up to $ 25 K.
If you just want to send a 12ga to Briley - and have them do the trigger, make and fit the tubes, some chokes to fit sub-gagues ..a case for tubes,etc ... its $ 3,000 - $ 5,000 probably..../but you have the weight issue I discussed above.
The 4 stand alone Citori XS Skeet models, I have ...retail new today for around $ 12,000 ... add another $ 500 per gun for choke tube sets ( so $2K more ) ....and a good hard case for each ...$500 ....you're at about $ 15K.
Often - when you tube a gun like a 12ga ...you'll need to change the Inertia triggers (typical in Browning O/U's ) to mechanical triggers for sub gagues like the 28ga and .410.
The ideal set-up is to go with a carrier barrel ( that carry's the tubes / it cannot be shot on its own - it can only be shot with the tubes installed). But the idea is then you have a 12ga barrel - and the carrier barrel with a set of tubes in it, is the same weight as the 12ga barrel ....making shooting all 4 gagues identical.
If you don't go with a carrier barrel - then you have an issue / when you tube a 12ga barrel - the tube sets for 20ga say ...add about 10 oz to the weight of the gun / and it changes the feel and swing characteristics a lot.
That is partly why some guys have a 12ga tubed....and then they shoot the 20ga tube set in all 20ga and 12 ga events --- because transitioning back and forth to the 12ga stand alone vs 12ga with the 20ga tubes in it is difficult in competition.
In my stand alone guns ....12ga weighs about 8 1/2 lbs ....20, 28 and .410 weigh about 7 1/2 lbs ....so I add 8oz under forend and 8oz inside stock ...to get the 3 light guns up to the same spec as the 12ga. Keep balance point the same ...keep the feel the same. But I still have 4 gun cases to load --to go to a tournament...and 4 receivers and 4 slightly different triggers ( they are all about the same...breaking right around 4.25 lbs ...but not quite as good as a stand alone carrier barrel and tube sets.
If you had a pair of Browning Citori XS Skeet guns ( 2 guns will cost you about $6,000 ) ....you could send both guns to Briley ...they would bore out one barrel and turn it into a carrier barrel ....and then fit both barrels to one receiver. Make the trigger adjustments to both receivers ...and fit the tubes ...and buy the chokes, etc ...and a case to lug it all around in....( for about $ 5,000 I think ) - if you provide the guns and both barrels - and you're into it for about $ 11,000.
From gun mfg's like Kolar and Krieghoff ...and proabably Perazzi and Blaser -- you can buy guns with carrier barrels and 12ga barrels - and have either Kolar or Briley tube sets fit for the guns...( prices for these guns with all of that included - are $ 15,000 - $ 18,000 probably ) if you stick with fairly standard configurations - if you go to upgraded wood, engraving, etc you can easily get up to $ 25 K.
If you just want to send a 12ga to Briley - and have them do the trigger, make and fit the tubes, some chokes to fit sub-gagues ..a case for tubes,etc ... its $ 3,000 - $ 5,000 probably..../but you have the weight issue I discussed above.
The 4 stand alone Citori XS Skeet models, I have ...retail new today for around $ 12,000 ... add another $ 500 per gun for choke tube sets ( so $2K more ) ....and a good hard case for each ...$500 ....you're at about $ 15K.
Thanks again. I'm formulating a plan here! I'll let you guys know what happens. First things first, my first skeet shoot with my Citori will happen next week, weather dependent. I KNOW I'm gonna love it. Merry Christmas to you all and thanks for bearing with me on some of these questions. I'll take your advice over the marketing claims of the manufacturers every time!
Full length tubes need to be fit ...by a competent shop ...like Briley in Texas ( for Briley tubes ).
Jim, Briley has a line of tubes (Companions) that don't require fitting. If you don't go with a pair in .410, then you won't need to have most triggers converted.Sweetshot, get some Skeet trigger time before you start to think about tubes. I know you and BigJim love your Brownings, but most skeeters don't consider them as comp grade guns. I've known a lot of folks who started out with Citoris, but they eventually upgraded when the felt their Browing was limiting their progress. One of these days Jim's gonna get his tubed K-gun and then he'll stop complaining about his .410 scores.
Zippy's right ....the Citori line of guns / XS Skeet included - is a solid gun - and its a 250,000 maybe a 500,000 shell gun....but there are better guns out there for serious competitors ( that want to compete at a National level ) like he and some of my buddies did over the years.
At the same time ...for many of us / the Citori line of guns - like the XS skeet or maybe the XT trap are all the gun we'll ever need.
If I could go back in time - when I was 30 yrs old ...and I was looking to really compete at a big time level ...Perazzi, Blaser, Krieghoff and Kolar would be on my list of long term investments.
I've heard some issues on the companion tubes ...I think they use a set of 0-rings to "adjust the fit" ...and Zippy's right / they're an option ....but I still think if you're really serious ( and can spend the money to really practice / and really compete / maybe attract sponsors ) - you'll want a carrier barrel and I think a fitted set of tubes....especially for Skeet ...and even for Sporting Clays - because in the bigger tournaments they have events for the 20ga, 28ga and .410 ...which was part of the reason I wanted a set of gun, in 28ga and .410 -- that would at least let me compete on a regional level ...not a national level...but those guns were not the reason I placed 2nd more than once in my class events ...they were plenty of gun for what I was trying to do.
But just on budgets - there is a big difference between casual club shooting ...and the big time tournaments...where all the big dogs come out to play. The big tournaments are expensive ....and the cost of the gun ( even at $25K is one of the lowest expenses you'll have ) ....
I know you're having fun ...just getting into this stuff ...and just learning ...don't overlook that there will be a number of good used guns, with tubes, on the market as well...
For now ...just have fun / learn about this stuff...but mostly have Fun !!! When you've accomplished your 3rd 100 straight in skeet in one gague ....its time to look at some of these guns to get you to the next level ! and I hope you get there....
At 61 - my competition days are over ....zippy's just jabbing me about a K gun and my .410 scores.../ those days are gone for me.../ but hopefully not for you !
At the same time ...for many of us / the Citori line of guns - like the XS skeet or maybe the XT trap are all the gun we'll ever need.
If I could go back in time - when I was 30 yrs old ...and I was looking to really compete at a big time level ...Perazzi, Blaser, Krieghoff and Kolar would be on my list of long term investments.
I've heard some issues on the companion tubes ...I think they use a set of 0-rings to "adjust the fit" ...and Zippy's right / they're an option ....but I still think if you're really serious ( and can spend the money to really practice / and really compete / maybe attract sponsors ) - you'll want a carrier barrel and I think a fitted set of tubes....especially for Skeet ...and even for Sporting Clays - because in the bigger tournaments they have events for the 20ga, 28ga and .410 ...which was part of the reason I wanted a set of gun, in 28ga and .410 -- that would at least let me compete on a regional level ...not a national level...but those guns were not the reason I placed 2nd more than once in my class events ...they were plenty of gun for what I was trying to do.
But just on budgets - there is a big difference between casual club shooting ...and the big time tournaments...where all the big dogs come out to play. The big tournaments are expensive ....and the cost of the gun ( even at $25K is one of the lowest expenses you'll have ) ....
I know you're having fun ...just getting into this stuff ...and just learning ...don't overlook that there will be a number of good used guns, with tubes, on the market as well...
For now ...just have fun / learn about this stuff...but mostly have Fun !!! When you've accomplished your 3rd 100 straight in skeet in one gague ....its time to look at some of these guns to get you to the next level ! and I hope you get there....
At 61 - my competition days are over ....zippy's just jabbing me about a K gun and my .410 scores.../ those days are gone for me.../ but hopefully not for you !
I've heard some issues on the companion tubes ...I think they use a set of 0-rings to "adjust the fit" ...and Zippy's right / they're an option
They're an option, but I'm with you... if I'm going to spend that kind of money, I want custom fit tubes. I suspect Briley came out with the Campanions for guys who don't want to ship their guns in, or want to use them in more than one gun.I shoot a variety of guns from a K80 to a Sile o/u 410. The best gun is the one you hit with and since you have a Lightining already go get some skt chokes and have at it. Extended expensive choke are not necessary right now as you will change many times over . I wont even attempt to tell you my loads because I am sure I will be crusified. Good luck and keep your head on the stock.
PS: Nothing wrong with Brileys, I have them for my K80.
PS: Nothing wrong with Brileys, I have them for my K80.
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Thanks Guys. Bought the pair of Carlson extended skt chokes for about 60 bucks total. I've been using their IM and full for my doubles league trap shooting, and they perform and pattern very well. Loaded up some 7/8 8's with 16.5 gr of red dot, but didn't get the chance to burn the skeet range yet. Maybe this weekend. I did put a 5/8" spacer on the butt pad and it comes up almost perfectly level now, and is the exact same LOP as my BT99. I AM having fun just messin' with everything! I'm guessing it's just gonna get better! Oh, and Big Jim, I'm only 56 so I've got many years to grow into a true competition shooter! 
56 is young ....as long as your eyes hold out ...and your body holds up...
I don't mind getting older ...but the blurry vision in my dominant eye that showed up at about 58 yrs old...that the fancy doctors can't seem to fix ...has sure taken its toll on my scores ....and the achilles issues ...and the complete shoulder rebuild on my shooting shoulder ....that wears me down a little.
Go for it while you can my man ......don't look back with any regrets because you didn't give it a try ......but no matter what / make sure you have fun with the process.
I don't mind getting older ...but the blurry vision in my dominant eye that showed up at about 58 yrs old...that the fancy doctors can't seem to fix ...has sure taken its toll on my scores ....and the achilles issues ...and the complete shoulder rebuild on my shooting shoulder ....that wears me down a little.
Go for it while you can my man ......don't look back with any regrets because you didn't give it a try ......but no matter what / make sure you have fun with the process.