New revolver guy -- and new to .38 special

SATRP said:
Good Morning Ohio Guy,

My advice is to rethink a J-Frame for self-defense.

A J-Frame is easy to carry and conceal. But so in a small 9MM.

I used to carry the FBI load in my J-Frame.
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Your advice is certainly well-taken, and I got this to replace my last two failed attempts at having a super small .380 for deep concealment. There was nothing wrong with those guns, except that I can't shoot them well no matter how much I practice, and they're so small that I can't get a decent grip to save my life. And my hands aren't even very large!

I got the revolver because the curved hook shape of the grip allows me to ride it lower, to where it's invisible under tucked-in clothes, but is still easy to grab. On semi-autos, I have to let it ride higher where it prints more.

My main EDC is a PPS M2, carried AIWB with the 8+1 configuration and a spare mag. When I can wear a looser shirt, it's often a 15 round CZ P-07. 95% of the time, I can dress around the Walther at least, meaning an untucked shirt. Belly bands don't work for me, tuckable clip holsters have obvious clips and make weird buldges, and "smart carry" style holsters ride too low for me to grip a semi-auto well on a draw.

Hence, for those rare situations, the J-frame in smart carry will fit the bill very nicely. Or as a pocket gun in winter when I can't get to something buried under layers of clothing.

I have snap caps and have spent the last week trying to reload quickly based on some Lucky Gunner videos. I suspect if I can get really good reloading the cylinder, at best I'll still be 3x slower than I can exchange magazines. So when I carry the J-frame, it'll be 5 shots and I'm done.

Also, I find the revolver substantially more comfortable to carry at a 4:00 position when appendix doesn't make sense. Even small semi-autos always feel uncomfortable to me anywhere besides appendix.

Plus the J-frame is a neat little beast to learn to shoot, and I strongly suspect I'll eventually blow money on a nice Colt or Kimber .357 3", because they're beautiful. I may not shoot them. Just look at them, like Gollum and his Precious.....
 
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There is no doubt that the Airweight or Airlight J frames, Ruger LCRs and similar revolvers are more difficult to shoot well than a quality striker fired semi auto but for me, it's much easier and comfortable to carry a S&W 342 or 642 in a way that lets me access it easily than it is to carry a G26 or Ruger LC9s while doing my job as a grease monkey.

It's more challenging to shoot the lightweight snubbies well but I think shooting them on a regular basis makes me a better shooter when I pick up the Glock. Yes, it takes work. This forum has great advice for improving shooting skills with light weight DAO snubbies and there is additional advice on the youtubes.
 
158 grains seems to be a good weight for .38 Special (or .357 magnum) rounds to me. I looked at a bunch of data and it ended up winning out.
I pack a Chiappa Rhino .357 magnum and it fires them very easily with no recoil problems. I upped from the 2" snub to a 4" barrel and can still carry it concealed fairly easily.
 
USSR said:
dahermit,

I cast mostly hollowpoints, with hollowpoints the alloy DOES matter.

Don
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Do wish to amend your statement to say that the only hollow point bullets you cast where the alloy matters are those you shoot at living flesh? And how many of the hundreds (I assume you shoot that many), that you cast do you actually shoot at living flesh?
 
Sorry dahermit, but I won't be baited by your comment. You stated since you mostly shoot very light target loads, the lead alloy doesn't matter to you. I simply stated that since I cast mostly hollowpoints, the alloy does matter to me. Casting a hollowpoint that won't do what it is designed to do (expand and stay together) just doesn't make much sense to me. BTW, my hollowpoints appear to do very well in deer flesh, and hopefully will never need to be used in a SD situation.

Don
 
USSR said:
Sorry dahermit, but I won't be baited by your comment. You stated since you mostly shoot very light target loads, the lead alloy doesn't matter to you. I simply stated that since I cast mostly hollowpoints, the alloy does matter to me. Casting a hollowpoint that won't do what it is designed to do (expand and stay together) just doesn't make much sense to me. BTW, my hollowpoints appear to do very well in deer flesh, and hopefully will never need to be used in a SD situation.

Don
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Sorry I could not bait you...tried my best. :) And if it makes you happy to cast all your bullets as hollow points despite the fact that only a handful will ever be used against flesh, more power to you and here is hoping, as the access to lead dries-up, you can still find alloys suitable for your wishes. If you enjoy "gilding the lily" by casting just hollow points that will never be shot at flesh, have fun...they are impressive after all.

As for me, the thousands I send downrange (16 yards, low velocity), do not have any critical need that is imparted by a specific alloy...I could go linotype (have not seen any in years), to pure lead (powder coated). I have only shot two deer in my entire life, both with .41 magnums and likely made of wheel weights...which was good enough to produce quick kills albeit not hollow pointed (Lyman 220 grain, gas checked). It is notable that I have only shoot two...whoops three (I remembered a whitetail I shot with a 255 grain .45 Colt in addition to the two deer with the .41's), three bullets in my years of casting, ever shot at flesh...out of the many thousands I have shot at targets, etc.

The first mould I ever had was a hollow-pointed Lyman 429421 for my original .44 Magnum Blackhawk (not Super Blackhawk). It occured to me in about a year, that the extra effort of using a hollow point mould was a waste of time for almost all of my shooting.

If I were to carry a my cast bullets for self defences in my model 36, I would opt for a Lee 158 grain round nose, flat point rather than an hollow point inasmuch I don't see (or not convinced) that a specific alloy for those would be critical for performance anyway.
 
USSR said:
A local scrap yard. All you have to do is basically know the alloy of the various sources of lead available, and cast them into separate ingots to allow you to make you own alloy depending upon the intended use of your bullets.

Don
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The problem with scrap yards is that they are not necessarily well-educated/informed about what lead alloys consist of relative to the source. For Instance I bought 200 lbs. of lead alloy recently from a salvage yard that advertised the the lead alloy was "soft" and was "pure lead" and they told me that it came mainly from sail boat keels. However, when I picked the lead up, it had a characteristic "silver" and (a "grainy" look which indicated the possible presence of Antimony and some Tin. In short, being that there is no standard alloy relative to sailboat keels, and the color and texture of their "sailboat" keel lead, it could very well have originally been wheel weighs to begin with. In any event, my cast bullets are not dependent upon specific alloys (however, in my "old days" of striving for accuracy in cast lead rifle bullets, I would have liked to have had access to linotype (or one of the other type metals), instead of having to heat treat my rifle bullets).

Also, as an example that scrap yards may not know much about lead alloys, I sold some salvaged electric motors to my local scrap yard and when I asked about any possibility of them receiving any lead alloys which they may sell to me, the guy did not know what I meant by "lead alloys"...I explained to him that the old lead-based wheel weights were an alloy of Lead, Tin, Anitimoney, and Arsenic, he seemed surprised...I suspect he had never heard of any alloys of lead let alone being able to know what they were.

One last example of junk yard attendants not knowing much about lead alloys...some years ago, I had a conversation with the owner of a salvage yard near my then home town relative to lead alloys he was buying. He stated that he would drop a sample of the alloy on the concrete and if "it had any ring to it", he would offer them less money than if it just went "thud", indicating pure lead. He also stated that he had a "degree" (the local community college), in "this stuff" (meaning metals). However, his logic was flawed in that ‎Antimony is worth about four times than is pure lead, so he should have been offering the seller more rather than less. But hey...he "had a degree in this stuff". :rolleyes:
 
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For the life of me, I don't understand why you are attacking me for casting and shooting hollowpoint bullets? Also, as I said previously, I buy only lead pieces in it's original condition such as lead pipe and sheathing, wheel weights and linotype of which the alloy is known, and don't rely on scrap yard workers. I also said "lead ballast can be anything", so you can fault only yourself for taking the word of a scrap yard worker as to what alloy that 200 pounds of sailboat keel lead was. One last thing, if you are upset because I cast and use hollowpoint bullets, you will probably be REALLY upset to know that I also cast and use hollowbase wadcutters.:) Great to live in U.S. and be able to do your own thing.

Don
 
USSR said:
For the life of me, I don't understand why you are attacking me for casting and shooting hollowpoint bullets? Also, as I said previously, I buy only lead pieces in it's original condition such as lead pipe and sheathing, wheel weights and linotype of which the alloy is known, and don't rely on scrap yard workers. I also said "lead ballast can be anything", so you can fault only yourself for taking the word of a scrap yard worker as to what alloy that 200 pounds of sailboat keel lead was. One last thing, if you are upset because I cast and use hollowpoint bullets, you will probably be REALLY upset to know that I also cast and use hollowbase wadcutters.:) Great to live in U.S. and be able to do your own thing.

Don
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Attacking you? I thought we were having a conversation.
 
"so he should have been offering the seller more rather than less".

Uh, no. Offering the seller less for the more valuable antimony increases his profit margin. Sounds like he knew what he was doing.
 
In my casting days, I bought wheelweights from the local junkie by the 1/2 ton.

Cleaned them and cast into 1 lb ingots. I used them straight for most casting. For some rifle bullets, I used linotype scrounged from a small newspaper.

The lino hasn't been available for many years, but the wheelweights were still in good supply 10 years ago when I stopped casting.
 
Actually, antimony is not "valuable", that's why the commercial casters use it. Now, tin, that is valuable and expensive. I pay $0.45 per pound for wheel weights that contain antimony, and $0.80 per pound for pure lead.

Don
 
I prefer 158 grain LSWHP. I reload these to max standard pressures. Not +p. I also load the Hornady 125 grain xtp. However, When fired at 3 yards in water jugs, the xtp bullets did not expand out of my, Smith 642 airweight. The lead bullets fired out of my Model 10 Smith will expand, but it has a 4" barrel. Never tried them out of my 642.
 
You threw the dogs a bone to chew, but I think you bought the right ammo. A lighter bullet allows more velocity for bullet performance while also reducing felt recoil in a lightweight platform. I picked the same ammo, and I think my 637-2 is probably lighter than yours (14 oz unloaded).
 
USSR said:
Actually, antimony is not "valuable", that's why the commercial casters use it. Now, tin, that is valuable and expensive. I pay $0.45 per pound for wheel weights that contain antimony, and $0.80 per pound for pure lead.

Don
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This is what I posted: "...Antimony is worth about four times than is pure lead..."
"more valuable" is not the equivalent of "valuable".

https://www.rotometals.com/antimony-ingot-5-pounds-99-6-minimum-pure/

You cannot use the price of wheel weights to determine the price of antimony inasmuch there are other factors involved, like some of the weight is a steel clip, etc.
 
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Nobody in their right mind adds pure antimony to lead to form an alloy. First, pure antimony melts at about 1200 degrees, which is well beyond normal casting temperatures. Second, the fumes produced by melting pure antimony are highly toxic. Once the antimony is added to lead at a foundry, it then forms a different compound and melting a lead/antimony compound is safe from toxic fumes and melts at normal lead compound temperatures. Everybody that I know buys lead alloys that already contain antimony, and they can be bought for less than pure lead as in the case of wheel weights. Linotype, with it's high amounts of antimony and tin can be bought for about $1.50 a pound, but that is more due to it's high tin content and relative rarity now days. Please do not mess with adding pure antimony. Buy an alloy that already contains it.

Don
 
USSR said:
Nobody in their right mind adds pure antimony to lead to form an alloy. First, pure antimony melts at about 1200 degrees, which is well beyond normal casting temperatures. Second, the fumes produced by melting pure antimony are highly toxic. Once the antimony is added to lead at a foundry, it then forms a different compound and melting a lead/antimony compound is safe from toxic fumes and melts at normal lead compound temperatures. Everybody that I know buys lead alloys that already contain antimony, and they can be bought for less than pure lead as in the case of wheel weights. Linotype, with it's high amounts of antimony and tin can be bought for about $1.50 a pound, but that is more due to it's high tin content and relative rarity now days. Please do not mess with adding pure antimony. Buy an alloy that already contains it.

Don
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Wow! I must have completely missed the post where anyone said that it is a good idea (safe and/or practical) to alloy elemental Antimony with Lead at home. Someone please direct me to that post.
 
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