New Policy: Act like a liberal

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Venison_Jerkey32

New member
I'm a college student and as many of yall know this week the big issue is concealed carry on campus.

I've decided my new position when dealing in anti-concealed carry debates is to act like a liberal would, get offended and play the victim.

So from now on anytime a liberal tells me concealed carry should be outlawed I will equate that as nothing other than him/her telling me my life is not valuable enough to protect.

I deserve the right to protect my life, fighting against CC is telling me that I don't.
 
Imagine what Dodge City would have been like had the good guys not had been carrying.

Interestingly, many cities in the "wild west" actually had open carry bans and the number of actual shootouts like in the westerns could probably be counted on two hands.
 
Way to go Venison.... I hope America can wake the heck up and not let us be victimized any more. Enough already.

The criminals being the only ones who carry? What possible reasoning makes that a good thing? Only your gunbanner knows for sure!:eek:
 
"but drunken fraternity brawls will turn into Dodge city!"
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Aren't fraternities usually not on campus property anyway?

That's the funny part, to me at least, with this argument. Everybody's like "well every fight between hot-blooded 20-year-old guys will wind up with somebody dead." Guess how many fights I've seen occur on school property at a university? It's a very round number, if you know what I mean. Every fight I've ever seen involving college students is usually at an off-campus party (either a fraternity or private house). Where carry isn't necessarily restricted by law.

It's not like people are duking it out every night in the dorms or anything, and certainly not in the halls after class. It's not high school.


The real question is what is so magical about a college campus that somebody the state has authorized to carry pretty much anywhere else is suddenly unsafe to carry there. What happens when I cross 19th avenue onto campus property that suddenly makes concealed carry by a licensed student more dangerous?

And it should never be argued in light of school shootings. Ever. They're irrelevant, and while I hate to break it to some of you they're probably the worst argument for concealed carry on campus...in such a situation, it's entirely possible that concealed carry by students would to more harm than good. I don't feel like rehashing the argument I've had plenty of times before here, so I'll get to the actual point...it should be argued in terms of routine self-defense. I don't know about business majors, but for engineering majors it's not uncommon to be leaving the labs late at night (or, on really crappy nights, more like early in the morning). And assaults, robberies, rapes, and even murders can happen on campus just like anywhere else. A licensed student should have the same right to defend themselves in such a situation as anybody else walking down the street at midnight should have.

Arguing for concealed carry rights on campus in the context of mass school shootings is like arguing about pedestrian safety in the context of falling pianos. It's simply not the issue.
 
School shootings are not an argument to further any agenda, especially pro gun or anti gun agendas. One, out of respect for the victims and two because it really isn't evidence for either side. (although each side claims it :barf: )

I believe I have the right to protect my life on campus and off campus.
 
School shootings are not an argument to further any agenda, especially pro gun or anti gun agendas. One, out of respect for the victims and two because it really isn't evidence for either side.
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I don't put much stock in the "respect for the victims" angle. Sure, you don't go trying to get legislation passed (on either side) before the bodies are cold. But at some point it's irresponsible not to look at the situation and decide if policy changes could have resulted in a more favorable outcome. That's not pushing an agenda, that's trying to learn from your mistakes.

But I agree that it's not a compelling argument for either side. It's just as easy to argue that that introduction of more guns to the situation could have lead to more deaths (yes, this really is possible) as it is to argue that it could have stopped the gunman and led to less. Or it could have made no difference at all. It's an argument best avoided because neither side is going to show definitively that they're right, and it's an astoundingly rare situation anyway.
 
members of the military should be allowed to carry on campus
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Why do they (or, since this would include me, I) have any more right to carry than any other licensed civilian? It's not like we're talking about carrying in the performance of their duties, or anything.

EDIT: The only reason I keep mentioning licensing is that in most states it's required for concealed carry...and while I'm generally a proponent of open carry I can see how it might not be entirely appropriate to the classroom environment. Not looking to get deeper into the argument than that, just saying that I can at least understand banning open carry on campus...but not concealed carry.
 
Agreed.
The way I see it, concealed carry on campus is pretty much a wash either way. With carry banned, only the shooters will have guns on campus and the tragedy will take place, but even if carry is allowed, the chances that an armed citizen out of thousands of unarmed college students would be at the right place at the right time to stop the threat are functionally zero.

when it isn't a wash is when I start to get involved personally. If it's a wash either way, then lets go with the side that lets me carry a gun and protect myself.
 
WHY?

"members of the military should be allowed to carry on campus"

.....Why? Because they are the only ones perfeshnul 'nuf? Or is it because they are SO well trained to carry a handgun? Or is it because they are only ones whose life is worth prtoecting? Defend your statement, Sir. Why should a soldier's life be worth more than mine?

I will agree with you, that members of the military, that have demonstrated knoledge of the applicable laws, and a modicum of proficiency with their weapon, and are legally able to carry a gun, SHOULD be allowed to Carry on Campus.... or anywhere else for that matter. THE SAME AS ANY OTHER CITIZEN.
 
i think evryone who has a ccw should, but military may be the first step. and to the one citizen not being able to stop a shooteer, with that logic you may say ccw on streets wont stop street crime
 
I personally don't believe CC has any affect on crime rates, so yes I would say ccw wont stop street crime.

Does that mean in isolated events an armed member of society wont be able to protect himself/herself or his/her family? Absolutley not! The reason I believe in CCW is because it empowers anyone (who so chooses) with the ability to protect themselves personally.

CC laws are not passed because they will benifit society as a whole, they are passed because they give Americans legal ways to exercise their unalienable right to defend their lives.
 
Interestingly, many cities in the "wild west" actually had open carry bans and the number of actual shootouts like in the westerns could probably be counted on two hands.
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It's fun to shake things up.

And it should never be argued in light of school shootings. Ever.
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AMEN.

"Why don't we just hire more security guards on campus?"

"The only purpose of guns is to kill. The solution is not to have more guns on campus. More guns = more killings!"

And my favorite,

"Yer all just a bunch of gun-totin' rednecks! Why don't you just go back to your compound in the mountains and build yourself another gun rack for all your phalluses!"
 
ccw will protect campuses, shooters dont care if cc is legal, theyre gonna commit murder and off themselves
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errrr, so campus shootings will happen anyways?

I assume you don't mean that CCW will protect campuses, but would help to limit the death total when shootings do occur.
 
Even Dodge City wasn't "Dodge City"

If you look at the actual history, and not what Hollywood has been teaching us for the last century or so.

In the wildest of the old wild west, the number of people killed was less (per capita) than in many modern urban areas (like Washington DC, for just one example).

Why is the shootout at the OK Corral ingrained in our nation memory (besides the movies and books)? Because it was a tremendously unusual event! 30 shots fired in about 30 seconds and 3 (three) men killed!

Why is the St. Valentine's Day Massacre remembered as a massacre? 7 (seven) people were gunned down that day. 7! What a huge number!, at least by the standards of the era. OK, they were all gangmembers, but still, 7 men killed.

It is not just the idea of CCW on campus that is important, but the idea of defending one's self in general that needs to take hold, before we have another mass murder rampage, but I seriously doubt that is going to happen. There are decent arguments against the idea of "locking down" a school campus when something like this happens. Some say it makes it easier for the responding police to tell what is going on, and to identify the danger. Others say it just traps victims in place, where they can be killed easier. I can't help but wonder what might happen to the body count if students defended themselves when and as they could, even without CCW. Unarmed students have stopped school shooters before, one brave lad even did it after he had been shot. Even sheep don't have to go peacefully to slaughter, if they choose otherwise. When it comes down to it, really, what is there to lose by fighting back? Particularly if you aren't stupid about it.
Too bad they don't teach that on campus these days.
 
You could always reply that you don't think college students should be allowed to carry concealed because as far as you're concerned the age of majority should be 21 not 18.

That'll change the dynamic of the conversation right quick...

:p
 
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