New pancake hot off the stove for my Colt SA

Very nice, High Valley...interesting design.

Just a cpl of thoughts on butt forward, cavalry style holsters....US Cavalry used them up to the Spanish American War period but went to the 'butt to the rear' carry with the advent of the .38 Colt and .45 Automatic.

US Cavalry was trained to fight off horseback, but seldom did during the Civil War and Indian Wars, with some notable exceptions, Bedford Forest of CSA fame used cavalry more as mounted infantry in fact...

The three cavalry arms: carbine, pistol, and saber were, for most of its existence, attached to trooper to enable him to fight mounted or on foot. Mounted, all positioning of his weapons was predicated on the left hand controlling his mount through the reins.

The carbine was slung from a cross shoulder strap and hung on the right side, the muzzle being slipped into a loop attached to the saddle's off side cinch strapping. When dismounting, the trooper had to remember to slip the muzzle free of the loop or faced an embarrassing hang up.

The revolver, all 7-1/2" of it was hung from the saber belt on the right side, butt forward. This position allowed him to draw with either hand, but more importantly, didn't interfere with his saber which hung from the near side (the left). Too, if you've ever ridden with a Colt holstered butt forward on the left side (the same side you hold the reins in), you'll remember your left elbow banging against the butt of that six gun in the trot and canter...big PITA believe me.

The saber was carried on the left side because it allowed it to be drawn by the right hand, across the body and perhaps of equal importance, it's nearly impossible to mount or dismount with that damned thing dangling around your right leg, where the carbine is...you'd have to fling the whole kit and kabootle over the freakin' cantle to get up into the saddle....not doable!

The cavalry...ours and other nations as well, had hundreds of years of experience to drawn on in designing the equipments, and only changed them reluctantly as arms and tactics evolved....of interest are the weights involved....

Cavalrymen, excepting officers who provided their own mounts, could not weigh more than 140 lbs during the indian war period because the equipment and tack that they carried was kept to 100 lbs....the total load being 240 lbs....and gov't horse suppliers and buyers bought and supplied re-mounts that were capable of carrying that weight for the specified tactical distances...yep....gov't mil spec even in 1860!

Tactically, they planned on 40 miles the first day of a campaign, 30 the 2nd, and 20 or less the third. Greater distances could be covered but at the imminent risk of horse breakdowns. Too, their baggage trains could not keep up beyond that.

For those with a desire to know more...Randy Steffen wrote and illustrated a series of US cavalry books covering the entire spectrum of usage from the Revolution to the bitter end in 1943...interesting reading and profusely illustrated in colored line drawings of horse equipment, weapons, and uniforms. Forty Miles a Day on Beans and Hay, by Rickey is also good on day to day life.

Again...Nice work, High Valley...Rodfac
 
Thanks for that interesting information, Rodfac!

It is to my understanding, and perhaps you can confirm or deny, that the reason the military taught one handed shooting as the predominant technique was due to the fact of the cavalry soldier having to hold his reins in one hand, dismounted while shooting? Look at the shooting manuals of the military all the way through the second world war, and they show the old school one handed bullseye technique.

And of course that was the reason that the old west used one handed shooting as well.

Two handed shooting did not become the predominant technique until man separated from having to use a horse.
 
HVR,

I agree that perhaps the Ruger Bearcat should be carried conventional butt rearward for the reason you mention. I'd be very interested to see the result you get if you do make one.

I believe that you may have pushed me forward into making a pancake style holster for my Father's Bearcat now. Only two issues remain for me. He has all the leathermaking tools and also the Bearcat. I may need to have my Mother pull a sneaky trick and get those items to me somehow (he lives 3-1/2 hours away).

Again, I love the style of this holster and would be somewhat surprised if nobody had ever thought of it before. Thanks.
 
Started on the Bearcat holsters today!

Lashlaroe,
I have seen a few pancakes for revolvers that I really like, but most of them are high rides, so I designed the gun to sit about cylinder even with the belt.
And most of the pancakes have the tradtinal pancake shape, not the thinner piece hanging down for the barrel like I designed.

I started on two holsters for the Bearcat I am borrowing. She was so nice to let me play with it for a few weeks, I want to surprise her with this new holster. I found a picture of a bearcat online and used that for the carving motif. Got two holsters carved out and both molded by tonight.
Here is pic of the carving! The funny thing is that I realized that my high school mascot was the Bearcat, and I've never know what the heck one was.

Bearcat Carving.jpg


Good luck on yours! Hey, where the heck did my bearcat and leather tools go?? Post some pics when you are working on it. Promise not to tell!

Making two. One for her is strong side cant forward with simple rawhide lacing around the edges and belt loops like the one above.

The second for me is to go with the one for the Colt New frontier. It will be cross draw, and canted, pancake like above, with the same color and "silver" studs and shape to match. That way I can have both .22's on one belt, one reverse draw and one cross draw.
 
Good luck on yours! Hey, where the heck did my bearcat and leather tools go?? Post some pics when you are working on it. Promise not to tell!
Click to expand...
LOL! Good one!

I like your bearcat depiction and look forward to seeing the finished products.
 
Great writeup, rodfac. I found it very educational.

Cavalrymen, excepting officers who provided their own mounts, could not weigh more than 140 lbs during the indian war period because the equipment and tack that they carried was kept to 100 lbs....the total load being 240 lbs
Click to expand...

Most today don't realize that people were typically smaller in stature than they are today. If one ever gets the chance to look in an original stagecoach, one soon has to wonder how more than two people could fit inside.
 
Model P,
the word BEARCAT was done while the leather is in the carving moisture content and was done with a ball point pen. I found that works great for the imbedding and the ink ends up being dark when the antiquing stain in put on.
 
High Valley...that's my take on it as well...one hand for the horse and one for the weapon...though I doubt they were shooting while dismounting. Watching a trooper (re-enactor) dismount is a lesson in "I've got too much c..p on for this".

Elmer Keith remarks in his "Sixguns" that cavalry in the Civil War, begged, borrowed or outright stole all the Colts they could lay their hands on and carried them in every available nook and crany...a good '51 or '60 Colt being far better in a moving fight than any saber.

While Southern cavalry fought mounted for the first part of the war (they were used as raiders, screens, and the eyes and ears of their armies), the North used cavalry in larger formations and as sort of mounted infantry...check out Buford's defense of the approaches to Gettysburg on the first day....had they not had Spencers and Sharps carbines, the battle would have gone in entirely different direction. Later in the war and through the Indian Wars, Northern horsemanship improved as did their equipments but tactics remained similar. Indian horsemen could and did out run US Cavalry throughout the plains wars due to their light weight....ie. they weren't carryingn 100 lbs. of gear...and for the most part were far better horsemen.

But here's a thought...why the Colt SAA instead of S&W Schofield? If you've ever tried to reload a Colt on horseback, let alone a running horse, you'll know where I'm coming from. The Schofield opens with one hand and easily presents six chambers ready to be charged...the Colt...well we know how easy that is. But the army had long experience with the Colt, throughout the Civil War...

Just some thoughts, High Valley...you've done a first rate job on your holster....many kudos....by the way, I love the eyes on the bearcat...slightly bewildered...first rate work, padnuh...

Rodfac
 
BUILD ALONG

though I would post progress working through the process for anyone else wanting to learn holster making.

Got the two carved pieces molded over the Bearcat last night.
I found that by only wetting the parts that had to be molded, and wetting mostly the backside, I could preserve the clean lines of the carving. Before, I was soaking the whole piece and lost detail in the carving, so this was a good find. I bend the leather over the gun, and then use plywood over the flats to hold it down while drying. Once it is almost dry, I take out the gun and take off it off the ply wood to air dry completely.

This morning I punched the stitch lines and the belt loops and rough cut to about 1/4 inch outside the final contour. I wait until after gluing and stitching both sides before the final cut. The cross draw one has the prepunched holes for the "silver" studs already to go.

Bearcat%20cutouts.jpg
 
you're way more artistic than I... ( those look awesome ) I spend more time on function... then usually slap a fancy piece of leather over the top... MRS MAGNUM used to tool leather alot when she was young, & has a pretty good selection of tools... I reciently bought the 4 piece barbed wire tool set( I hate fancy tooled holsters with plain straps that cross over the art work... thought I'd start by stamping several of the straps on my tooled holsters )... but so far... I've just been really "paranoid" ( dragging my feet ) about tracing out & cutting on something...
 
It's not as hard as one puts it to be.
Main points:
Use a spray bottle to wet the leather. You can cut while damp, but only tool when it is drying out. You will find the right balance. Tooling too early means mushy imprints. It's almost better to tool when dam near dry. The leather can be light and when you tool, it will turn dark, and that way you know you are in the right moisture content.

Stamping is the easiest, but carving and free hand is a little harder. But all carving using the same stamping techniques, just knowing your tools and how they end up affecting the leather.

The main tools I use are the edge beveler, the background, and the cutting knife. This is a special pivoting knife that does the right width cuts.
Those three tools will get you to over 50% of the work. Then its just the finishing tooling.

Be sure to use natural leather. Tanned leather or other finished leather will NOT TOOL PROPERLY. Only raw natural leather tools the best. I find that the 6 to 9 ounce leather holds tooling the best, although I have tooled 3 to 4 ounce as well.

Try it out on some scrap to wet your feet. I learned from the guy at Tandys and in ten minutes I was on my way.

GOOD LUCK!
 
MRS... has a couple swivel knifes, along with her tools... so far, I've only had the guts to play with a few tools...

I made a small "traditional" flap holster that fits my little Iver Johnson solid frame 22 or my Hopkins & Allen spur trigger solid frame in 30 rimfire ( that we made the rifled 22 caliber chamber inserts for ) alot of my old holsters have a bit of border tooling along the sewn side, & around the flap border... I used my stiching groover to make a double line border, & copied the star pattern in the corners, & used a checkering type of back ground stamp to fill between the lines... it actually looks pretty good... so, I'll try something more challenging in the future...
 
Be sure to use natural leather. Tanned leather or other finished leather will NOT TOOL PROPERLY. Only raw natural leather tools the best. I find that the 6 to 9 ounce leather holds tooling the best, although I have tooled 3 to 4 ounce as well.
Click to expand...

I think you meant to say use only vegetable tanned leather to carve on,,,
Chrome tanned garment or upholstery leathers will not tool at all.

What you said about tooling when it's almost dry is spot on correct,,,
You should keep the surface at least damp though,,,
Or the core of the leather dries out too fast.

That darkening you speak of is called the burnishing effect,,,
You are correct about the leather turning dark in the indentations only when the moisture content is "just right".

I carve and stamp heavier leathers but it does take a bit more preparation to get the moisture content correct,,,
The advantage of carving on heavier leathers is you can tool much more deeply,,,
You will be amazed at how much depth your florals will have with 8-9 or 9-10.

Nice job on those holsters my friend,,,
You got skills.

.
 
Nice looking holster. I bought a pancake holster in the late 70's for a S&W K frame from a guy named Roy Baker.He was known as the pancake maker.I still have it but ftom years of use it's getting rot.I should talk,you should see me now.lol
 
HVR,

So I resurrected this thread as I am going forward with a pancake like yours for my father's Bearcat. I won't get the tools or the revolver until Christmas time and I have to pick up a couple things yet too. I have a few questions for you.

1) Did you use a Thonging Chisel to make the stitching holes?

2) Did you use a 1/16" punch for the stud holes and the non-straight stitch holes".

3) I have never made a holster; how do you protect the gun while molding the leather shape?

That's all for now, lol. Thanks for your input.

Also, I would love to see the finished Bearcat holsters if you have a pic or two.
 
HVR,

So I resurrected this thread as I am going forward with a pancake like yours for my father's Bearcat. I won't get the tools or the revolver until Christmas time and I have to pick up a couple things yet too. I have a few questions for you.

1) Did you use a Thonging Chisel to make the stitching holes?

2) Did you use a 1/16" punch for the stud holes and the non-straight stitch holes".

3) I have never made a holster; how do you protect the gun while molding the leather shape?

That's all for now, lol. Thanks for your input.

Also, I would love to see the finished Bearcat holsters if you have a pic or two.
__________________
Mike
Click to expand...

Sorry Lashlaroe,
I lost track of the thread when they moved it over to the gear section.
I hate that because it limits the amount of general viewers and it's harder to keep track of your posts and replys on various forums.

Anyways, here are some of the answers.

I have a 4 prong flat chisel punch made for punching slotted holes that I use for the stitching line. Some people use the star roller which rolls along the line and marks the points in various increments, but I don't like that . The four prong slot cutter precuts the first layer and it makes it easier for the awl stitcher to puncher cleanly. The main thing in the stitching is to make sure the tension is even and the loop is hidden in the leather. Better to hove the loop show on the back side, but the front has to look even with the thread coming out of the holes cleanly. It will be apparent when you make some mistakes that it didn't come out even. Have to screw up to learn, so start making a bunch of small projects to learn.

I make the stitching line AFTER I wet mold the leather to fit the gun.
More on this later.
After you mark the stitching line, use the four prong punch ( I like the small one with tighter holes) and always insert one of the prongs into the last hole to keep aligned as I move down the line. I use regular sharp point punch for marking the really curvy holes. On the studs that are two prong, I drew a line parallel to the stitching line for the inside prongs. Then I measured 1 inch increments and marked the stud line with the punch lightly. Then I measured 1/4 inch (for the 1/4 studs) out at every increment for the outer prong. I then used the punch to MARK the holes and used an awl to actully pierce the leather. Once all the 2 prong holes for the studs were pierced, I poked the studs in, flipped over the leather and tapped the prongs together with a small hammer. Tandys has a stud installer, but FORGET USING IT. It is a POC and it is better to use the method I describe. Using their tool will result in disaster, because the stud can move around and will no puncher the thick leather on its own accord.

3. After I do the carving, I let the carving dry. Then I spray the sides that are not carved and the entire back to get the leather soft enough to mold. I use to dunk the whole carved piece, but lost too much detail in the carving, so now only wet the leather enough to mold. I place the gun on a flay piece of plywood and spray the leather with a windex bottle to get the leather just wet enough to mold. Then I put the carved leather piece over the gun and gently work the shape with my hands. I work on the sight side first as that is the straight edge. Bend the holster over the gun and work out the flat bend, the vertical side and then the softer top bend over the gun.
At this point I use another 1/4 inch piece of plywood to hold down the straight side. I screw it over the leather (remembering where to keep the leather pristine) to hold it down flat to the plywood forming board. Once the sight (straight) side is screwed down, then I can work the leather over the gun and start to form the trigger, ejector side. I work it so that the leather comes out flat on this trigger side, and cut a scrap of 14 plywood to hold that side down. finally, I use a piece across the bottom if I want an enclosed bottom holster. The bottom takes some work because the leather is scruntched on both sides and needs flattening down. Might need to spray wetter to do this. If the leather doesn't mold, it needs to be wetter, but it doesn't need to be sopping wet. The leather is very open to marks at this point, so watch that you don't make unnecessary marks with finger nails, tools or anything while molding.
Sometimes I protect the gun with saran wrap or even just a plastic bag. Other times I leave the gun unprotected, because the leather is not soping wet, so the gun gets wet, but can be easily wiped off. You can oil the gun as well to protect it. The moisture issue is not as bad as you think.

At some point when I have more time, I will do a whole tutorial that be stickied for people to learn the process. Photos would help the above descriptions and a carve along might be nice.

Here's one pic of the finished holsters:
Old Movie guns.jpg
 
HighValleyRanch,

Thank you, that was Excellent! Thanks a bunch for that detailed write-up. There is certainly no reason that I can't do this now. It's only a matter of practicing the carving a bit now, since it's been many years since I was a teen and last put a tool to leather.

Also, that picture in sepia looks fantastic! You should enter it in the December photo contest.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top