New Orleans police state tactics: NEVER AGAIN!!!

Crimes after Katrina may have been overblown
Many of the tales of civil unrest at evacuation sites appear to be rumors

NEW ORLEANS - On Sept. 1, with desperate Hurricane Katrina evacuees crammed into the convention center, Police Chief Eddie Compass reported: “We have individuals who are getting raped; we have individuals who are getting beaten.”

Five days later, he told Oprah Winfrey that babies were being raped. On the same show, Mayor Ray Nagin warned: “They have people standing out there, have been in that frickin’ Superdome for five days watching dead bodies, watching hooligans killing people, raping people.”

The ugliest reports — children with slit throats, women dragged off and raped, corpses piling up in the basement — soon became a searing image of post-Katrina New Orleans.

The stories were told by residents trapped inside the Superdome and convention center and were repeated by public officials. Many news organizations, including The Associated Press, carried the witness accounts and official pronouncements, and in some cases later repeated the claims as fact, without attribution.

But now, a month after the chaos subsided, police are re-examining the reports and finding that many of them have little or no basis in fact.

No official reports of rape
They have no official reports of rape and no witnesses to sexual assault. The state Department of Health and Hospitals counted 10 dead at the Superdome and four at the convention center. Only two of those are believed to have been murdered.

One of those victims — found at the Superdome — appears to have been killed elsewhere before being brought to the stadium, said Bob Johannessen, the agency spokesman.

“It was a chaotic time for the city. Now that we’ve had a chance to reflect back on that situation, we’re able to say right now that things were not the way they appeared,” said police Capt. Marlon Defillo.

Sally Forman, a spokeswoman for Nagin, said the mayor was relying on others for his information about conditions at the evacuation sites. “He was listening to officials, trusting that information they were providing was accurate,” she said.

To be sure, conditions at both sites were chaotic. Water was rising around the Superdome, home to 20,000 evacuees. Toilets were backing up, garbage was rotting, fights were breaking out. Food was in short supply at the convention center, where about 19,000 people took shelter from the rising waters. The temperature was climbing. The elderly and very young were desperate for food, water and medicine.

Police said they saw muzzle flashes at the convention center, and a National Guard member was shot in the leg when an evacuee tried to take his gun.

Rumors that were unfounded
A week after the floodwaters poured into the city, an Arkansas National Guardsman told The Times-Picayune of New Orleans that soldiers had discovered 30 to 40 bodies inside a freezer in the convention center’s food area. Guardsman Mikel Brooks told the newspaper that some of the dead appeared to have met violent ends, including “a 7-year-old with her throat cut.”

When the convention center was swept, however, no such pile of bodies was found.

Lt. Col. Jacques Thibodeaux of the Louisiana National Guard said reports of violence at the Superdome and the convention center were overblown. He was head of security at the Superdome and led the 1,000 military police and infantrymen who went in to secure the center on Sept. 2.

“The incidents were highly exaggerated” — the result of fear and hopelessness, he said. “For the amount of the people in the situation, it was a very stable environment.”

Thibodeaux said his guard unit received no reports of rape.

Bill Waldron, a homicide detective from Florida in New Orleans for a murder trial, was stuck in the convention center until Sept. 1. He said he saw a couple of fights between young men, but “no murders, no rapes.” He said that he did see people dying, but that those deaths were most likely a result of the heat and lack of water.

“People were wanting just some type of authority to come in and say, ‘Hey, this is what’s going to happen,”’ Waldron said. “People were scared.”

Four homicide victims identified
New Orleans District Attorney Eddie Jordan said officials at the morgue in St. Gabriel have identified four apparent homicide victims from the city. All were shot and all were adults. Police arrested one person on suspicion of attempted sexual assault but received no official reports of rape.

Judy Benitez, executive director of the Louisiana Foundation Against Sexual Assault, cautioned that it might be too soon to say whether there really were rapes at the evacuation sites. Because the evacuees and any perpetrators have been scattered across the country by Katrina, and now Hurricane Rita, victims may come forward later, she said.

“It is extremely difficult to get good statistics about rape under normal circumstances, and these are certainly not normal circumstances,” she said.

Bill Ellis, a folklorist at Pennsylvania State University, said rumors in an environment like that at the evacuation centers are to be expected, given the frightening circumstances and paucity of authoritative information.

“Rumors become improvised news. You become your own anchorman,” he said.

The chaos also seemed to affect some reporters and editors, said Kelly McBride, who teaches ethics to journalists at the Poynter Institute, a journalism research and education center in St. Petersburg, Fla.

“You get so hung up as a reporter on what the big picture is that you use generalizations that become untrue,” McBride said.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/9503449/page/2/
 
One inch group

I have got to agree with you on this one. Where is your amigo "Lead Council'
is he a NRA member also? If you think this is really an issue to be throwing barbs at each other over think again.

This State of Lousiana is interesting. I can't believe it is really in the United States, talk about no rights for women and others. It is so backward I can't believe it, their laws go back to Napoleanic not ours (english) Common and the Magna Charta.

Harley
 
New Orleans Police State Tactics

Hi Harley,

Lead Counsel is just another of my pals, like you, met on some other threads 'round here.

No barbs being tossed around by me, just trying to make the point that no misconduct by legal authorities can ever be minimized or swept under the rug.

I see tonight the NOPD chief has resigned one day after NRA and SAF slammed him and the Mayor over their abuse of power.

Now we need to get the Deputy Chief who announced " No one in NO is going to have guns. We are going to take them all" (Paraphrased)

Don't know if Lead Counsel is in NRA or not. I'm a Lifer there, so I tend to rely on them for fact checks, etc. Washington Post around here has not proven too dependable, if you know what I mean.

So, as to the tinpot dictators running around NO, whether its bird, buck, or just enforcing the law against them that's the agenda here.

We should never let them get away with one of those, "well, nobody REALLY got hurt." kind of weaselouts that seem to be the standard.

You and I may not agree on matters of weapons and tactics, or even what courteous discourse is all about, but I hope we can be united in the belief that no stupid police chief, deputy, or mayor can be allowed to slide when our 2nd amendment rights are on the line.

Final Comment:

nra_web_recruiting_link.jpg

JOIN THE NRA TODAY!!
 
TheeBadOne-
You are killin' me here.
You post an article about how minimal the crimes were in New Orleans....in context of a thread where citizens are being disarmed in their own homes....at gunpoint?

I can only assume you mean to state that the Police actions were also over-reported.

I have a couple of problems with this:
The First is that a Judge has issued a restraining order against the Government to cease and desist that which it pledged to do.

The Second is the posts that you made when this catastrophe was occurring about the deep sacrifices of Our Badged Brothers during this horrific time. (Shall I post them?)

It seems to me that you can't have it both ways here. If Our-Brothers-O-Badge had it so difficult, we can expect that it was even tougher on Our-Brothers-O-Non-Badge.

Which begs the question, why was the latter group discriminated against? You do not get to have this cake and eat it.....not even with the most Pro-LEO amongst us. Cut your losses and let it go now; to do less diminishes you.
Rich
 
Why does the pro-gun right hang so much importance on isolated incidents?
These were high-profile incidences which screamed, nay, taunted us for a response.

Had we not, it would only have shown the gun-grabbers that we are asleep or merely fatigued.

Our actions both large and small were commendable in this regard.

Rick
 
"Why does the pro-gun right hang so much importance on isolated incidents? Not since Galveston was wiped from the planet has a storm done damage of this magnitude. And this is not the first time a politician has overstepped their bounds. Never again? What possible scenario can be forseen where this is likely to happen again? Humongous solar flares? It wont happen because the system worked. A TRO brought this nitwit to heel and redress will accrue."

sendec,

There is no such thing as an isolated incident. They are called 'precedents' and serve as foundations for continuation and expansion of the same behavior. If they are tolerated, that is. There are any number of political hacks out there in any number of jurisdictions who would be very happy to 'overstep their bounds' to impose gun contol by fiat which they have not been able to accomplish (so far) by legislative means.

Note that the 't' in TRO stands for TEMPORARY. We have a ways to go yet before this thing is settled permanently. Note the following:

http://www.nolo.com/definition.cfm/Term/A2B7ABF5-4DEC-4193-8E8D7D4358BD66D3/alpha/T

temporary restraining order (TRO)
An order that tells one person to stop harassing or harming another, issued after the aggrieved party appears before a judge. Once the TRO is issued, the court holds a second hearing where the other side can tell his story and the court can decide whether to make the TRO permanent by issuing an injunction. ...

These incidents of firearms confiscation in New Orleans and vicinity- however many of them there actually were- are the literal legal tripwire everyone who has been watching the issue of gun control has worried about for a long time. This was the line in the sand that so many people assured us repeatedly would never be crossed, oh no, 'they' wouldn't do that, no way no how not gonna happen. No self respecting law enforcement officer and no one in a military uniform would ever do such a thing in the United States. Never gonna happen.

Well, it DID happen.

And now it has to be fixed. It has to be straightened out so thoroughly that no public official will ever again mistakenly assume that they have the power to abrogate the Constitution by fiat. It has to be fixed in such detail that no LEO and no service member will ever again mistakenly follow such an order. There must be prompt and memorable legal consequences for everyone who had any part in bringing about this fiasco.

Because if there are not prompt and memorable consequences for everyone who screwed up this time around, IT WILL HAPPEN AGAIN.

If it happens again, the legal options will have failed. Because if there are not sufficient negative consequences for all concerned who had a part in this first "isolated incident," there is no reason for it not to happen again.

If it happens again there will only be one option left...

lpl/nc
 
Lee, Id write more but you said it better then I,

Yep I agree. Oneinchgroup I agree. Heck I agreed on some of the stuff you said on another but no one was reading it. LOL

I just have a couple of points I need to say in the weehours on the West Coast.

This is a critical time in our country. We are at war in foreign countries and on the home front. Really... It has happened before and it will happen again.

A Nation divided is a terrible thing. This NO caper is something that starts the rift that undoes solid footing. We need to make a stand, it is here that it is
needed.

I believe Houston and Galveston missed the bullet. I don't think anyone would have been willing to give up their 'old betsy' Not in Texas. They clearly screwed up in NO and it proves just what the left wing is really after.

To further make the ones displaced and hurt by "an act of God" :eek: is really more then they should have to put up with.

Thanks to the NRA for their speedy relief at a time, when time was of the essence is really what it's all about.

Harley
 
I hope we can be united in the belief that no stupid police chief, deputy, or mayor can be allowed to slide when our 2nd amendment rights are on the line.
+1

In regards to TBOs article, I think the truth is somewhere between the extremes. There is a concerted atmosphere of media damage control in Louisiana at the moment. There are people lost who will never be found, and whose end will never be known. Because an act goes unknown does not make it any less real.

In my area, last week the Sheriff gave the Red Cross 24 hours to release names and SSNs of evacuees in two shelters. The reason was the need to know whether registered sex offenders were among them. The Red Cross refused. It's all about damage control, maintaining an image for tourism, money, and very little about law, order, or reality.
The sheriff says two people whose ID's were checked outside the Monroe shelter had extensive criminal backgrounds. Fewell estimates about 45-hundred sex offenders from six south Louisiana parishes are unaccounted for and thousands more with other criminal records.

edited to add an update: The Sheriff recieved his list. He is reporting that over 30% of the people who passed through the local shelter had outstanding warrants ranging from DWI to 1st degree murder. :eek:
The bad thing is the Red Cross has no friggin' idea where these people went, when they left or even if they are still there!
 
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45 hundred from six parish's

Holy Smoke's :eek:

Now that is a number to be chilled by. If the people do not do something after this fiasco we are screwed... Police are your first line of defense as a general rule, I believe that to be true.

The media is a horrible problem and it alway's has been. But we still need it to keep other things that are out of control form getting to far right or left.

Harley
 
Never again?

Whenever I see the above phrase, usually after some sort of disaster, civil rights issue, act of war, etc., I cringe. "Never again!" usually means that the person is upset by the event and placates him/herself and others so that they will feel better knowing that such horrors will not happen. Once placated, everyong forgets until it happens again. And then a voice cries out, "Never Again!"

The phrase crops up after many types of natural disasters, but human ones as well. The cry was heard spoken by the President after Pearl Harbor. We will never allow a sneak attack again! It was heard after the first WTC bombing. Even after those two events, the 9/11 bombings occurred and shockingly, we were surprised by another sneak attack of the type that twice we had cried "Never Again!"

There are good intentions, but the rights violations in NOLA will be overshadowed by everything else going on. Those most affected by arms confiscations will commit their lives to more directly important issues, but building new lives, many will be very far from NOLA when they do.

Of course, there will be those morons who cried never again about the flood in NOLA, and like ants of a mound just scattered by a child's kickng, they will rebuild in place and a cousin of Katrina or Rita will come and destroy their homes again, killing their loved ones, crying never again as the waters rise above their heads.
 
Well one has already resigned over the SS tactics used by the police in NO. Now, for the rest of them. EVERYONE INVOLVED with these clearly illegal gun grabs must no longer be allowed to serve in ANY official capacity, other than possibly be assigned to the newly created 'Sanitation & Janitorial Commitee of NO' to start cleaning up the big mess they made.


Now the media and everyone else involved in this entire giant screwup is in full backpedal, trying to save face. Its not going to work. WE SEE YOU. We won't forget what you did. You won't either.....
 
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