New Orleans Disaster - Unique?

I didn't know that President Bush has been President for the last 60 years :confused:

You see, LA and NO has been under democratic rule for the last 60 years. In all those years they did nothing to reinforce the levees. All the money went to other things, like the building of that super dome.

For the last 30 years, the dems have known about what could happen with the levees, over the past 30 years the feds have dumped money into the levee system, for the past 30 years, nothing that needed to be done, was done.

Then you have the warnings. The busses that are now useless, the amtrax train that offered help before it left and nagin turning it down and they left, empty.

Then you have the "well the federal government wasn't fast enough". Well hell, doesn't leadership and the care for the people start from the bottom up, not the top down? That's why they (the governor/mayor) are there, to take care of the people since they are right there! The governor didn't ask for fed help until after it was too late, and it says right on the FEMA page that they will take 48 to 72 hours to respond.

And the people, why didn't they have a plan? Because many of them expected the government to be there to protect them and they didn't know what to do without government assistance? When they had the last election, the DNC was able to bus about 14,000 to the polls, in less than a day. Why wasn't the same effort made in the days before the storm? Was it because it wasn't that important to them then, that those people only mattered when it came to getting to the polls but not when their lives were in danger?

You know, it's so easy to blame others for things that go wrong. I could blame my Parents for me not being rich. I could complain that my teachers didn't get me into college. I could blame the booze factories for my drinking. I could blame the cigg companies for my smoking. And if the SHTF, I guess I could blame the President also because I didn't have a plan.

But you know where all the blame lies... with me. I am the first line of defense and offense for myself. If my plan is to get to the mayor's "supposed" evac area, and the evac doesn't happen, then I can blame the mayor, but in reality, the blame is still mine for not having a plan B.

And you know why I don't have all the stuff above (except the plan), it's because I'm lazy, I am "riding" on life just getting by. I am to blame for not trying to climb further up the ladder. I am to blame for being right in the middle between taking government handouts and living off that (and demanding more) but I don't because I loath the thought of living on the People's dole, and I'm to blame for not getting off my butt and going back to college, quit drinking, and starting the climb once again.

Sure, the entire thing was messed up to begain with, but the blame starts from the bottom up, not the top down.

Wayne

sorry for the rant.
 
USP45usp:

100% correct.

I would add:
You see, LA and NO has been under democratic rule for the last 60 years. In all those years they did nothing to reinforce the levees.
Click to expand...
I thought the democrats were all about helping the poor? After 60 years, how is it that there was such a major pocket of poor folks? That rhetoric seems pretty empty now.

Not only did they take the money allocated for the levees and squander it, but they utterly failed, over 6 decades, to help the poor out of poverty, which is the supposed core of democratic values. No one is talking about this, but they should be.
 
With about 40% of their country below sea level, certainly the Dutch know a thing or two about securing low lying land.

However, the reason that they are losing land (2 acres per hour) due to erosion and subsidence in the Mississippi Delta is due to poorly conceived civil engineering projects that eliminate the depostion of sediments there.

It would seem to me that rather than trying to build ever-taller and ever-stronger levees and dykes to try to oppose the influx of ever deepening water... they should just attack the source of the problem and restore the deposition of sediment by the Mississippi. I think that would be a cheaper, more effective, and more permanent solution.

See Civil Engineering Magazine:
http://www.pubs.asce.org/ceonline/ceonline04/0704feat.html
 
CC,

Knowing alittle bit of the history of the MS delta, it was a hurricane that turned it to what it is today.

Funny how we expect to rule the earth, and the earth does as it wants.

Biloxi didn't really have a "beach" that people flocked to because of the turn of events, it wasn't widely used or visited except by the druggies. It's because the tide had turned and the water was bad.

Seems as if "Mother Nature" has her own plans for us mere humans.

Wayne
 
it was a hurricane that turned it to what it is today.
Click to expand...
There may have been a hurricane, but that's not what the engineers or hydrologists have been pointing to for at least a decade. Are you saying that the history and assessment in the article that I linked is wrong? :confused:

There is also an assessment in last year's National Geographic that is the same, and even paints the scenario for a hurricane-precipitated flood like Katrina, with all the evacuation problems - it was published last fall:
http://www3.nationalgeographic.com/ngm/0410/feature5/
 
*Edited: Posted with emotion, not thought. For this, I apologize. I'm just getting tired of the same old finger pointing and not the fact that our governments aren't getting together to help solve the problem instead of using peoples lives as an excuse to gain power.

Again, I apologize for my actions.

Wayne
 
Last edited:
Then why didn't the democrats in charge do something about it?
Click to expand...
I am not even sure what you are talking about, but I wasn't trying to blame Republicans, if that's what you're trying to say. Neither the Civil Engineering Magazine, nor National Geographical, say anything about either Republicans or Democrats, nor did I say anything like that. As to the rest of your post, I really don't want to even comment on it.
 
What I am basically saying, the levees have needed to be reinforced for some time.

During that time known, the democrats have been in charge.

CC, you've been known to bash all things republican for as long as I can remember, that is why I chose the wording that I have. To show, once and for all, it's not one parties fault, but it's more of another party that while in power, decided not to do anything.

And Fisherman, yeah maybe, I'm getting tired of the "tolerance crowd" around here.

Wayne

/Wayne, just sick and tired of all the BS and now speaking out on it. Geez people, make a "pop" sound so we know that your heads aren't up your......
 
CC, you've been known to bash all things republican for as long as I can remember, that is why I chose the wording that I have.
Click to expand...
I sure don't rant and rave like you just did, and claim everything is the fault of Republicans. For what it's worth, I have no party loyalty - that is wrong, in my opinion, to have it. The country should come first, not your party.
 
CC,

You're right on that aspect but you have chosen to bash the party in charge for quite awhile now while giving a pass to the other.

I don't have any party either. My party of choice is who I believe, so far I've been very disappointed in the characters that they've decided to present.

Yet my biggist beef is the, "blame the feds", for everything. Why the heck do governors and mayors get elected? To gain the paycheck and then just disappear or blame when something happens?

Damn, I need that job, I could do nothing, blame everyone, and retire rich within a 4 year period.

I'm just sick and tired of the finger pointing, the blaming of everyone and everything, and the basically non-action of us and then the bitching, whining afterward or the sorrow and dispair that is on the boards and the "what can we do" remarks.

It's all the same. The same advice is given, the same "sorrow" and the same "we should have's" as well as the same "well, I was busy". It's all going to be the same.

And then when something is done about it, it's the same old deal, "They are gun nuts", "they shouldn't have done that", "now isn't the time", "They are not us".

So what does one think? One one hand, nothing is done, on the other, something is done, and we are all over it to condemn the action of, and to talk bad about.

It's a lose, lose, situation.

Wayne
 
You're right on that aspect but you have chosen to bash the party in charge for quite awhile now while giving a pass to the other.
Click to expand...
As far as the Republicans or Democrats, in general, I don't have any big beef with either of them. Our President, and a number of his inner circle, I do dislike, and strongly disagree with much of what they have done - if a Democratic Pres and his top officials were up to the same things right now, I'd be saying the same things.

There is nothing wrong with criticizing, as long as you do your homework, and are fair. In fact, criticizing wrong behaviors is the only possible way to get them corrected.

It's the same thing I have done in jobs that I have been in, and I can tell you, while I have been written up as "...a model for respectfully challenging" by secure managers who appreciated what I was doing, I have also been called a "troublemaker" by weak managers who were insecure. That actually reflects their problems, not mine though. You correct wrong behaviors by pointing them out and telling why they're wrong, and what can be done better - that is actually a constructive behavior that strengthens the organization. "Yes men" are worthless in terms of input.

Unfair, excessively ugly, or politically motivated criticism are wrong. Thoughtful and accurate criticism, done not for it's own sake, but to correct ills, whether by changing policies or practices, stategies, or yes, firing the grossly incompetent or corrupt, is correct.

Like what was written in those two articles I linked - that is pointing out correctly mistaken practices in the past, and what can be done in the future. That nothing was done about these warnings, which yes, were there, all over - I saw them, *is* a failure by all up the line from New Orleans government up to the Federal Government, who just ignored the experts because they didn't have the will to address the problem.

The same thing has been going on with Global Warming. This is a phenomenon that has been well documented and is without any significant controversy in the scientific community as to whether it's going on, and what is causing it, or what the results will be, for years now. What's being done about it? Big fat zero. That is also a failing of government in progress, and mark my words, in the coming decades, this will bring very serious and very expensive problems, and people will be saying - who knew??? And when it's too late, politicians in charge will point fingers at those who preceded them, and those will just be covering their butts. It's like watching a train wreck in slow motion.

It's not the job of the ordinary people to know these things, and it's not even the job of the politicians to know these things. It is, however the job of politicians to listen to those whose job it is to know, and to take appropriate actions based on that input.
 
CC,

I've edited my post. As I said, I was posting with emotion, not thought.

I apologize to you for doing so. I had no right to put my frustrations upon you.

Wayne
 
So: Any constructive suggestions on how to improve future performance before, during and after a major disaster?

Such as, have a real plan to evacuate all hospitals in the predicted impact area of a hurricane?

Any solid suggestions?
 
"In fact, criticizing wrong behaviors is the only possible way to get them corrected."

A very successful approach to redirecting behavior is to suggest positive actions, attitude changes and new ways of looking at situations.

(You see, I've put an idea in your head without bluntly telling you that you're wrong about criticizing being the only possible way. It's usually the WORST possible way. Too much negative stuff flying about, opposed to suggesting what needs to happen and encouraging change.)

John
 
LOL johnbt. :)

To your question butch50:
So: Any constructive suggestions on how to improve future performance before, during and after a major disaster?

Such as, have a real plan to evacuate all hospitals in the predicted impact area of a hurricane?

Any solid suggestions?
Click to expand...

These will not be “strategic” answers… I’m not necessarily qualified for something like that. But my opinions on a more broadened scale:

Before:
Obviously one thing to learn is how the poor had a hard time getting out of harms way. A plan needs to develop that specifically addresses this issue. *Economic status shouldn’t determine survivability. Also there was a problem with people believing that this was really going to be a "disaster"... some citizens just didn't think it would be that bad. I think this experience has educated the public all across the nation. Hopefully when the authorities yell, “evacuate”, people will listen.

*Economic status does not equate to race - lets keep out of that arena. There's been enough race-card playing as of late.

Also, I'm not sure if it's true or not (not skeptical, just...don't know), but I keep hearing the comments regarding federal monies provided for levee, but used on other things. IF this is true: One preventative measure is to hold our local politicians accountable for the distribution of monies intended for things such levee repair, or evacuation planning. That is, we need to ensure that monies designated for such things are actually spent for their intended purpose. When the money is not spent for it's intended purpose, and we complain when the proverbial levee breaks... point the finger at the people who spend the cash.

Regarding evacuation - they need to put forth a plan that prioritizes, rather than the cluster-nonsense of decision making that usually follows a disaster. You can't prepare for everything... but you can get closer than in N.O.

During:
During a crisis, if the local authorities are not performing... at what point can/should the federal government step in? I realize this is a fine line that we do not necessarily want breached... but wow I really hope this makes people look at their local authorities with a little more scrutiny. "Does your mayor or governor have what it takes to take care of you before, during, and after a crisis?" People need to think about that.

After:
A comprehensive study should take place to learn from the success and failure of each "Before" plan and each "During" plan. After is a time for reflection, learning, and action in the form of policy-making, from the people we hire to protect us.
 
A plan needs to develop that specifically addresses this issue.
Click to expand...
One was in place. It required the Mayor and Governor to act as first responders and evacuate using existing buses and trains; they used neither. It required the Red Cross and FEMA to step in after the storm and see to the needs of the evacuees; both were refused access by the Governor.

A comprehensive study should take place to learn from the success and failure of each "Before" plan and each "During" plan.
Click to expand...
Agreed. And if the citizens of Louisiana and New Orleans don't demand such study; if their legislators don't fund such study....shame on them all.

I see no reason why citizens of Mississippi or Alabama should fund Louisiana's after action report. They've got their own problems.
Rich
 
Rich Lucibella said:
One was in place. It required the Mayor and Governor to act as first responders and evacuate using existing buses and trains; they used neither.
Click to expand...
Yep. Maybe the Mayor and Governor fell into this group?:
Trip20 said:
Also there was a problem with people believing that this was really going to be a "disaster"... some citizens just didn't think it would be that bad.
Click to expand...
Shame on them (Mayor/Governor) for not being, what they may have considered at the time, overly precautious, and taking advantage of the existing buses and trains. Better safe than sorry should rule the mindset and decision making of our elected officials in a time of potential disaster.

And if the citizens of Louisiana and New Orleans don't demand such study; if their legislators don't fund such study....shame on them all.
Click to expand...
+infinity
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top