I think the courts ought to do something which would cause a horrendous flinch in anyone who was instructed to confiscate firearms. NO is a great place to start. Find out who actually did the confiscation and proceed to cause a flinch in some manner. Hopefully the next time due consideration and debate will occur in the ranks of the guys doin' the deed.
New Orleans Admits To Saf Attorneys They Have Seized Guns.
- Thread starter azfreedom
- Start date
steelheart
Moderator
Scumbag gun confiscating mayor of N.O. will return seized guns to owners
NRA has negotiated an agreement with New Orleans regarding the firearms seized from lawful owners during and after Hurricane Katrina. The issue is pending before the federal court in the case NRA v. Mayor Ray Nagin.
On March 15, 2006, lawyers for both sides informed the court that positive settlement negotiations were occurring. After months of stonewalling, the city of New Orleans has now admitted that it holds a number of firearms, and that owners of firearms which may have been confiscated may contact the Property and Evidence Division of the New Orleans Police Department in any of the following ways: by telephone, at (504) 658-5503; by mail, sent to: New Orleans Police Department, Property and Evidence, 400 North Jefferson Davis Parkway, New Orleans, LA 70119; or in person at the same address.
Please be patient as records are incomplete, and the police are currently understaffed. Records are most accessible if you can supply your gun's serial number. Claims can be made based on proof of ownership, or, lacking such documents, an affidavit that the item belongs to you. For those who go through the above process, whether successfully or unsuccessfully, NRA would be interested in hearing your comments on what occurred. Please contact NRA Grassroots at 800-392-8683 or by email at https://secure.nraila.org/Contact.aspx.
NRA has negotiated an agreement with New Orleans regarding the firearms seized from lawful owners during and after Hurricane Katrina. The issue is pending before the federal court in the case NRA v. Mayor Ray Nagin.
On March 15, 2006, lawyers for both sides informed the court that positive settlement negotiations were occurring. After months of stonewalling, the city of New Orleans has now admitted that it holds a number of firearms, and that owners of firearms which may have been confiscated may contact the Property and Evidence Division of the New Orleans Police Department in any of the following ways: by telephone, at (504) 658-5503; by mail, sent to: New Orleans Police Department, Property and Evidence, 400 North Jefferson Davis Parkway, New Orleans, LA 70119; or in person at the same address.
Please be patient as records are incomplete, and the police are currently understaffed. Records are most accessible if you can supply your gun's serial number. Claims can be made based on proof of ownership, or, lacking such documents, an affidavit that the item belongs to you. For those who go through the above process, whether successfully or unsuccessfully, NRA would be interested in hearing your comments on what occurred. Please contact NRA Grassroots at 800-392-8683 or by email at https://secure.nraila.org/Contact.aspx.
This thread has been here for a number of days, moderators have checked in, but none have bothered to comment on their previous statements and reactive locking of previous Katrina gun confiscation topics.
This one... http://www.thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=181012&page=4&highlight=Katrina
It looks as though several threads were closed due to the bias of the moderator and most of them were closed just before the moderator issued an attack against one or more posters.
Is there no Come to Jesus moment where the video, the lawsuit, the injunction, and the rest that give the thread-closing moderators a chance to say, yep, I was wrong.
The Firing Line is a tense place -- note the "Clownie" award thread started by Rich Lucibella. It's a little over the top. I think this forum will suffer for it.
Argie
Rich Lucibella
Staff
Welcome Argie.
I guess I AM that Moderator.
The earlier thread was closed because it was posted at a time when no facts were available; only rumor....along with the child rapes and beheadings in the Super Dome...remember those? Remember the cannibalism reports?
Anyone who is familiar with my post history knows that I am hardly the blind devotee of LEO's "right or wrong".
If I insulted your sensibilities by closing that thread and offering a Part Deux based on "current and credible" reports, I apologize. If I've further confused you by NOT closing later threads, when we had verifiable reports to talk about, I apologize even further.
That was your point, correct? That I closed one, asking for current and credible reports. That such reports were provided and I, therefore, left follow-up threads open? Oh, now I'm confused! Come to think of it, exactly what IS your point?
Rich
I guess I AM that Moderator.
The earlier thread was closed because it was posted at a time when no facts were available; only rumor....along with the child rapes and beheadings in the Super Dome...remember those? Remember the cannibalism reports?
Anyone who is familiar with my post history knows that I am hardly the blind devotee of LEO's "right or wrong".If I insulted your sensibilities by closing that thread and offering a Part Deux based on "current and credible" reports, I apologize. If I've further confused you by NOT closing later threads, when we had verifiable reports to talk about, I apologize even further.
That was your point, correct? That I closed one, asking for current and credible reports. That such reports were provided and I, therefore, left follow-up threads open? Oh, now I'm confused! Come to think of it, exactly what IS your point?
Rich
I'd have to go through all of the many posts, so I can't say whether that evidence was presented, but reading the posts available on Search, I'm unclear what kind of "proof" the moderators would have wanted. Someone wanted "proof that the confiscations were wide spread." That's moving the goal posts. Certainly it is not a goal line that triggered their alarm. As one poster said back then, "One gun is too many." As would be five, or twenty, or 100. One died in the Boston Massacre of 1770. Was that overblown as well?
Back in the early days of Katrina there were videos trickling out, first-person testimony, NRA and GOA state,emts, lawsuits, court rulings. None of that brought out any mea culpas from those who locked the threads, and continued to lock threads.
The person who started the thread asked, "I wonder what those people are saying now." To that I would add, do you think guns were being illegally confiscated and was it something that the firearms community should have been vocally alarmed about? I believe so.
Rich said "That was your point, correct? That I closed one, asking for current and credible reports."
No, that was not my point, and I don't think it was the other person's point. What was peculiar was your retrenchment. First you say there was no gun confisation, then when presented with evidence you changed to "there was no wide spread confiscation." With no tip of the hat to the evidence. Just multiple thread closings (and unkind remarks by moderators to the posters just before the thread was closed).
ArgieFal
Back in the early days of Katrina there were videos trickling out, first-person testimony, NRA and GOA state,emts, lawsuits, court rulings. None of that brought out any mea culpas from those who locked the threads, and continued to lock threads.
The person who started the thread asked, "I wonder what those people are saying now." To that I would add, do you think guns were being illegally confiscated and was it something that the firearms community should have been vocally alarmed about? I believe so.
Rich said "That was your point, correct? That I closed one, asking for current and credible reports."
No, that was not my point, and I don't think it was the other person's point. What was peculiar was your retrenchment. First you say there was no gun confisation, then when presented with evidence you changed to "there was no wide spread confiscation." With no tip of the hat to the evidence. Just multiple thread closings (and unkind remarks by moderators to the posters just before the thread was closed).
ArgieFal
Rich Lucibella
Staff
Argie-
No Staff Member claimed it wasn't happening, so none need explain "what we're saying now". We asked only for credible evidence before allowing a potentially divisive topic to continue during a time of National Crisis.
But, tit-for-tat you haven't answered MY questions. What'd you think about the rampant child rapes and beheadings at the Super Dome (which turned out to be completely bogus). Shouldn't we have taken those "early reports" as fact also? What about the cannibalism? Tell us about the cannibalism.
Are you arguing that TFL Staff should be prescient? That any rumor should be fodder for our collective comment regardless of substantiation? Again, what on earth is your point other than to derail the thread?
If you have a cogent point, other than Monday Morning Quarterbacking, make it, pulease. If you have an issue with Staff, take it up with Staff. Sounds pretty simple to me.
Rich
No Staff Member claimed it wasn't happening, so none need explain "what we're saying now". We asked only for credible evidence before allowing a potentially divisive topic to continue during a time of National Crisis.
But, tit-for-tat you haven't answered MY questions. What'd you think about the rampant child rapes and beheadings at the Super Dome (which turned out to be completely bogus). Shouldn't we have taken those "early reports" as fact also? What about the cannibalism? Tell us about the cannibalism.
Are you arguing that TFL Staff should be prescient? That any rumor should be fodder for our collective comment regardless of substantiation? Again, what on earth is your point other than to derail the thread?
If you have a cogent point, other than Monday Morning Quarterbacking, make it, pulease. If you have an issue with Staff, take it up with Staff. Sounds pretty simple to me.
Rich
XavierBreath
New member
Argie,
I do not think the confiscations in NOLA angered many people more than me. I believed the reports from the beginning, eventhough I did not see a hint of it while I was there. When threads discussing the issue were closed on this forum, I was again angered. I wanted to scream to the high heavens about these acts that were not just constitutional violations, but the removal of people's very means of self defense when they needed it most. These confiscations transcended simple gun grabbing. They were potential death warrants to innocent families.
I held my peace, however, because I felt certain that the reports were true and widespread. I also KNOW what side of the second ammendment Rich Lucibella stands on. I knew that when verification of widespread confiscations came to light, that there would be open discussion on this forum. I truly believe that Rich was trying to keep the impotent chest beating to a minimum, and not trying to protect anyone confiscating weapons. As I said, I know where Rich stands.
When rights are being violated one does not need a mob mentality. One needs facts and a methodical and effective approach to the matter to insure it NEVER happens again. We need to consider where we go from here. Support your gun rights organization of choice. Write your lawmakers. Realize this can happen where you live. Make certain it will never happen again. That is what we must do, rather than fighting among ourselves.
I do not think the confiscations in NOLA angered many people more than me. I believed the reports from the beginning, eventhough I did not see a hint of it while I was there. When threads discussing the issue were closed on this forum, I was again angered. I wanted to scream to the high heavens about these acts that were not just constitutional violations, but the removal of people's very means of self defense when they needed it most. These confiscations transcended simple gun grabbing. They were potential death warrants to innocent families.
I held my peace, however, because I felt certain that the reports were true and widespread. I also KNOW what side of the second ammendment Rich Lucibella stands on. I knew that when verification of widespread confiscations came to light, that there would be open discussion on this forum. I truly believe that Rich was trying to keep the impotent chest beating to a minimum, and not trying to protect anyone confiscating weapons. As I said, I know where Rich stands.
When rights are being violated one does not need a mob mentality. One needs facts and a methodical and effective approach to the matter to insure it NEVER happens again. We need to consider where we go from here. Support your gun rights organization of choice. Write your lawmakers. Realize this can happen where you live. Make certain it will never happen again. That is what we must do, rather than fighting among ourselves.
"No Staff Member claimed it wasn't happening,"
I beg to differ. See below.
Rich, many threads were locked, not just the one you mentioned.
Here is a search result
http://www.thefiringline.com/forums/search.php?searchid=957936
Here is the most aggressive post by you
Some of the stories might have been false. Locking down threads based on that is a different matter. Even more, the gun confiscation claims turned out to be demonstrably true, and early. And yet, the threads were closed. But you didn't do it as a mere editorial decision, you were downright mean about it, as the threads linked above will show.
As far as drifting the thread, I think the thread is right on course. We can have the posters chime in to verify, if you'd like.
In the meantime, I'd offer up that you unlock those closed threads and put stickies on them. It would show good faith on your part.
Argie
I beg to differ. See below.
Rich, many threads were locked, not just the one you mentioned.
Here is a search result
http://www.thefiringline.com/forums/search.php?searchid=957936
Here is the most aggressive post by you
I didn't hear about "rampant" child rapes, but I did hear about child rapes. I didn't hear about "beheadings" but I did hear about assaults, theft, and looting. As a person who understands the right to keep and bear arms, my thoughts were, "Good place not to be, and if there, a good place to be armed and have friends." That the stories proved false is an issue of the media (which generally bent over backwards to avoid the gun confiscation issue).
Some of the stories might have been false. Locking down threads based on that is a different matter. Even more, the gun confiscation claims turned out to be demonstrably true, and early. And yet, the threads were closed. But you didn't do it as a mere editorial decision, you were downright mean about it, as the threads linked above will show.
As far as drifting the thread, I think the thread is right on course. We can have the posters chime in to verify, if you'd like.
In the meantime, I'd offer up that you unlock those closed threads and put stickies on them. It would show good faith on your part.
Argie
One needs both.
When the ones bearing facts and methodology are in the room with the frightened public servants, just pointing out the window at the mob gives the "reasonable" ones more leverage. "You can dismiss what we here at the NRA are saying, but if you do, you run the risk of the GOA mob throwing political bricks through your windows."
You dismiss them by adopting his language. They were right. The evidence was clear. What Rich wanted them to do was to prove the existance of a massive gun confiscation conspiracy which struck many as odd given a video grandmother slammed into her wall by a cop and orders from the Court to stop the gun confiscations. The notion of scope (massiveness) isn't really an issue to someone who cares about rights. When someone gets arrested in Ohio for open carrying, I don't care if its widespread or not. Better to pay his lawyer so he can put up a fight. I don't waste time waiting for fence-sitters to come help, I get the people who are ready to go to work. Fence-sitters rarely get off the fence. Closed threads don't help the effort. Rich hasn't come to grips with the New Orleans gun confisctations.
All is right with the world.
Argie
Rich Lucibella
Staff
OK, Argie. You made your point. I agree...all but you were "denying" there were any gun confiscations. Of course you were ignorant of the other charges of murder and mayhem there; but you were right on the money with 5 months of hindsight on the "rampant gun confiscations". Well done, son.
Thanks for the clarification. But then, we've been, ummm, "retrospectively corrected" by you in past lives, n'est ce pas?
Rich
Thanks for the clarification. But then, we've been, ummm, "retrospectively corrected" by you in past lives, n'est ce pas?
Rich
Rich Lucibella
Staff
k-dawg-
Thanks for getting us back on track. IMHO, it absolutely is perjury when you represent a falsehood, under oath, to a Court. In this case, it would also appear to be a violation of Federal Civil Rights.
Rich
Thanks for getting us back on track. IMHO, it absolutely is perjury when you represent a falsehood, under oath, to a Court. In this case, it would also appear to be a violation of Federal Civil Rights.
Rich
XavierBreath
New member
I'm no lawyer, but to qualify for perjury, wouldn't it have to be proven that Nagin, Compass and Strain knew the confiscations had indeed taken place and guns were in storage? Proving somebody knew something is tricky business
Could they not just say "Oops, Darn, we found these just now.'" This is New Orleans after all..........
Rich Lucibella
Staff
XB-
They could, but.....
If an aggressive prosecutor got on it and the rats knew the cat was out of the bag, it'd be a pretty straightforward issue to follow the chain of custody/reporting from bottom to top, I think.....including, at some point, Compass who can't be too all-fired happy about his forced exile.
The key is simple: an Aggressive Prosecutor. But, as you say, this IS NOLA.
Rich
They could, but.....
If an aggressive prosecutor got on it and the rats knew the cat was out of the bag, it'd be a pretty straightforward issue to follow the chain of custody/reporting from bottom to top, I think.....including, at some point, Compass who can't be too all-fired happy about his forced exile.
The key is simple: an Aggressive Prosecutor. But, as you say, this IS NOLA.
Rich
Well, it has been 11 months. Does anyone know how many firearms have been returned, and how many remain in warehouses? I saw the thread posted 2/14/07 on the contempt citation. The politicians are still lying to the court.
http://www.thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=238118
http://www.thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=238118