New Mexico Mountain Lion

12-34-
Good question...one that I asked myself often before I started hunting. Other than common garden variety deer, hogs, etc most of us simply do not have the knowledge to track a specific game animal over miles of varied terrain.

In fact, let's face it...any time we use a guide, we're really not the "hunter"....we're the shooter. I find nothing wrong with this, so long as I continue to learn a bit of field craft with each outing and so long as I keep it in perspective. I daresay that anyone who goes to Africa and uses a PH to track, spot and identify targets has a lot of gall claiming himself to be a great "hunter".

When it comes to predators, our practical options are limited to baiting and blinds, calling or dogs. (If you ever decide to hunt lion or leopard in Africa, I assure you you'll be baiting...hardly the same as stalking Buff, but that's the way it is.) In this case we used dogs and the skill in training them is every bit as impressive as tracking personally. Again, I didn't train the dogs, so I'm just the shooter. But it's no less impressive to watch them work. (Ever hunted quail with dogs? It's an absolute amazing thing to watch them work.)

As for personal effort, I'd invite you to spend a day with Richard Ley. Get up there at 8,000 plus feet and start chasing those dogs up sheer cliffs with full pack and weapon in 17 degree temps. Believe me, it's work.

Finally, we have the bigger picture. When we crossed and identified the fresh tracks (without dogs), we found we'd jumped the lion off a two day old deer kill. There was about 100 yards of blood leading up to the kill...the deer went down hard. Now that's no justification for shooting the cat, but it does remind us that the Circle is a pretty violent and natural one. To step into it for a few days causes me no conscience problems. The fact that the meat is not wasted makes it even more palatable. (pardon the pun)

I'm not particularly impressed with my shoot on this one, but I am impressed with that cat. The work involved was certainly greater than sitting in a deer blind.
Rich
 
Well said:p . Like it takes great skill to sit in a deer blind looking over a corn field waiting on Rudolph, put the cross on him while he is chewing his cud, and squeeze the trigger!!:rolleyes:
 
Take it easy...

Don't worry too much about the cats, there are plenty of them.
A pro is not gonna' hunt out his glory hole and put himself outta business. Rich is indeed, completing the circle and it's really not done often enough to hurt the environment. The thing here is that there are many folks that still live off the land and paying for the opportunity to hunt with these guys is great for the people that actually live in the mountains. Since 911, there has been a huge drop in the local economies up here and a hunter coming in to share the game is certainly welcome. We have a responsibility to the game as well...the deer population is running high. That's why these areas are sustaining the big cats. Plenty of food. If the hunters don't come in and take the game, the predators will eventually get plenty fat and numerous. While there's nothing wrong with that...at all, it can be a bit crowded at times. We certainly don't want anyone to come in and start "regulating" the game for its' own good. I'd much prefer to see hunters take some and leave the rest, to self-regulate themselves and the herds...

Congratulations on the hunt and finding a good hunter to guide you. It certainly is better for everyone that a pro is involved with this kind of game. It doesn't take many "incidents" with humans getting hurt, before someone steps in to take "care" of us...
 
The hunt.

Mr. Lucibella, thank you for taking the time to respond to my remarks about your hunting trip.

Excuse me if my remarks seemed disparaging, that was not my intent sir. After reading my post later i see that it could have been construed in that manner. Also, i've never hunted deer and have no desire to.

I don't think i could shoot such an animal, but to be in those mountains and see and feel nature at that level would be an awesome deal!!

Merry Christmas & a Happy New Year to you and your family, & thanks for having the greatest firearms site on the internet!

12-34hom.
 
12-34-
No harm; no foul. I didn't see your comments as disparaging at all. Fact is, as I said, yours is the same thought process I've had. We just came to different decisions. All that's required at that point is to respect each others' choice...which I think we do.

Merry Christmas-
Rich
 
The thing to always keep in mind is that we as mostly "sport" hunters can only hunt if there is a surplus of game animals. Here, I'm using the term "surplus" to mean that the total population is greater than needed for species survival. It can also be used with respect to the carrying capacity of the land.

An Audubon Society birder can get a huge thrill from just seeing one of a few remaining members of an endangered species. The hunter has a far more difficult responsibility, in that he must ensure species survival so that the surplus exists.

Without assigning any moral value, remember that the hunter and the gardener are do-it-yourselfers in acquiring food. Otherwise, we're just hiring others to do our scut work for us. Food is food is food: How it's acquired is an individual matter.

And a Ho, ho, ho! to all,

:), Art
 
"No Flame intended, but i've seen coyotes hunted with dogs, and considered those that do pretty lame. "

I think that it's neater than hell myself and consider opponents to it lame.
 
Rich,
We have had guys that've hunted sheep all over the world tell us that hunting bear or lion off of dogs was the most physically challeneging thing they've ever done. Many times we'll hunt all day and get so far from the trucks or the horses that we'll have to siwash out for the night with just what you've got with you. Dog hunting is not as it seems and I'd invite any disbelievers to try it before they cast judgement on this unique and difficult form of hunting.
I've heard many statements as to the negatives of dog hunting before a hunt. I've yet to have had anyone scoff at it after a few days in the field with a pack of hounds.
 
Reckon it depends on where you have your deer stand. I've often heard that deer don't look up...the deer look right at you in the stand where I hunt. I've watched deer move past my stand through a broomsage field 70 yards in front of me...see them fine through the binoculars. Take the binoculars away and...what deer?

There's a buck that walks by me every year several times...five minutes before legal time. Leaves his sheds in front of my stand in February. I personally don't find the scoped rifle to be that much of an advantage. Where I hunt it's more of an equalizer.
 
"The way I do it is the only way to do it!" is a common human trait. It holds in hunting as well as in music, politics or religion.

Art
 
We were about 40 miles outside of Santa Fe in Pecos. National Forest area.
Click to expand...
Ah Pecos! Absolutely my favorite backpacking location, bar none. Others come close, but I LOVE the Pecos Wilderness. I have been to both the Pecos Wilderness and Philmont Scout Ranch (same basic mountain range) and I had no idea you could hunt there. I always thought the National Forrest was a protected area. No? Done a little fly-fishing in some of the streams and that was nice, but to think they have hunting as well! Wow, another reason to go back. As soon as I can get an Appalachian Trail under my belt I will.
 
So the distinction is “Parks” vs. “Forrest”? I had no idea there was any difference between them. Been in both of them many times and never picked up on it; don’t I feel sheepish.
 
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