New ITAR "interpretation" ....and this Forum

If the rifle is covered by ITAR (and not every rifle is),

DDTC definition of the US Munitions List covered by ITAR seems pretty all-inclusive to me:

CATEGORY I—FIREARMS, CLOSE ASSAULT
WEAPONS AND COMBAT SHOTGUNS
*(a) Nonautomatic and semi-automatic
firearms to caliber .50 inclusive (12.7 mm).


What rifles would not fall under this classification?

I'm looking for legal advice...PM sent...
 
Think "incrementalism".

Remember these words (parphrasing): "We're not going to ban coal fired power plants. We're going to regulate them until they are too expensive to stay in operation".

You can be legal, and you can be right all you want, but when the federal government accuses you otherwise, few have the resources to fight it.
 
I am not well educated in international trade law, so I will not comment on that issue. In my opinion this thing boils down to this: Defense Distributed wanted to make technical data for 3-D printing firearms open for public access free of charge.
State Department says "wait a second, we need time to study this issue". DD waits 2 years without any answers from the State Department. DD files suit against State Department on prior restraint grounds, then in an attempt to moot the lawsuit, the State Department does a "we are going to change the definitions of what things are" in order to get the lawsuit tossed.

This seems very straight forward to me. Its been done before by federal government and state governments, probably will be again, unless the courts steps on the executive branches neck in this case and says NO, you do not have this authority, nothing will stop them in the future.
 
Government is out of control on so many levels, I don't see how it can end well.
Some things are so regulated they might as well be nonexistent, some laws are plainly unconstitutional, yet the courts do nothing.

Cicero said it right:
"The enemy is within the gates; it is with our own luxury, our own folly, our own criminality that we have to contend."
 
New ITAR Interpretation

The reason this administration is doing this is no secret. They are wanting to eliminate private ownership of firearms. That is all it all is about.
They have made it illegal and dangerous for kids to paly cops an robbers with anything looking like a gun.
They have persecuted and prosecuted Kids for talking about guns or wearing NRA T Shirts.
They have killed Skeet and rifle teams in schools.
They have gone after Parents that Kids said had guns at home.
The list keeps growing.
In keeping with their goal of criminalizing firearms ownership, the biggest blow will be banning talking about guns, on the Internet and if the Internet, magazines, newspapers, in public, or anywhere.
That it is illegal for them to do so means nothing.
Apparently it is illegal to talk about any weapons or explosives or as cited here nuclear.
Half or more of the Kids of the 40s and 50s learned all about atomic bombs and nuclear bombs and their construction.
It's not "rocket science."
I bet even kids in the Kalahari have probably made black powder and sugar based explosives and a lot more.
I guess they aren't going to teach chemistry or nuclear fission or how to make or sharpen a knife, or snares for rabbits, or homemade candles anymore unless you have a security clearance.
 
This is the comment I lef the State Department;

To whom it may concern,
I am writing to object to the proposed changes regarding the ITAR, namely the re-definition of the term "defense articles" subject to restriction of foreign-export. It appears the reclassification of assorted "technical data" pertaining to previously-classified "defense articles" represents an unprecedented expansion of the materials claimed subject to the regulation.

Specifically, how this newly claimed authority pertains to the realm of firearms. Throughout the entirety of this nation's history, the lawful design, construction, and discussion of firearms amongst the public has been thoughtfully protected, in keeping with the first and second amendments to the US Constitution. The rule changes described in the federal register appear to usurp this intentional protection, using the justification of the appearance of internet communication, yet the regulatory changes extend far beyond mere internet exchange.

The rule requires anyone creating newly defined ITAR "defense article" data or media to first seek State Department approval and registration before proceeding with its release into the public sphere. Apart from the prohibitory tax burden imposed by mandatory ITAR registration, this approval process constitutes a severe prior restraint on speech that has until now has been clearly protected by US statutes. Anyone interested in learning the details of firearms operation, design, construction, or performance would inevitably become entrapped by these far reaching regulatory changes that seek to restrict access to all new firearms technical data not already in the public sphere. Such a result would be a fiscal and legal nightmare for both the government and those seeking to operate within this scheme, and is unacceptable.

Apart from the severe impacts on online information sharing, which is now the predominant form of communication for technical data of all kinds, the new material classification rules would prevent the publishing of detailed technical articles and manuscripts regarding firearms in assorted print or broadcast media, even though the claimed justification for these newly claimed powers is the ascendance of the internet. The internet has been repeatedly held as no more threatening and no less protected than any other form of publication, and for the ITAR or State Department to determine online communication as especially dangerous speech is unacceptable.

The justification to classify as "defense articles" sensitive to our nation's strategic standing, the various firearm technical data, is also unsupportable. Small arms up to and including .50 caliber are perfectly legal devices for American civilians to purchase, own, build, and operate in accordance with federal and state laws. Far from constituting a national security threat, our governing documents make it clear this information and its free disclosure are absolutely critical to our security as a free nation. They cannot therefore constitute such a significant strategic or existential threat to our nation's security domestically or abroad that mere technical speech pertaining to them must be restricted severely. Such a broad restriction on speech regarding an entire class of technology in common lawful use by the public fails even the thinnest scrutiny.

In conclusion; the proposed changes to ITAR must not be adopted. They are far too sweeping beyond the claimed purpose, the claimed purpose itself is so sweeping it falls outside the existing regulatory authority of the State Department, the type of data that would be restricted has both historical precedent and legal protection spanning centuries, and the security threat claimed in order to justify this threat is wildly exaggerated if not fabricated outright.

Thank you for your time spent addressing my concerns,
TCB

I implore all of you to READ the actual language being proposed, and do some research on what ITAR actually is. There is an enormous amount of hyperbole being bandied about; this proposed change is shameful, but it is not about "banning all gun speech" or reducing us to the stone age. It is about restricting from public discourse the technical knowledge necessary to keep alive the civilian gun building hobby (and ultimately, to render stagnant and uninteresting the civilian shooting hobby in general)

The type of information (construction, performance) used to object to the ban on M855 ammunition, and to design lawful semi-auto conversions of parts kits is exactly the sort of topic that is covered by the proposed new scope of ITAR's 'defense articles.'

Even if there truly is nothing to this, if it all a fabrication of the NRA to raise money, if the State Department will never move to bar such speech after claiming the authority to, there is no reason to go along with this proposal. I implore all of you to leave a reasoned, respectful comment at regulations.org. This topic is currently trending #1 on their homepage, and you can choose to remain anonymous when leaving your comment (I sure it rejects foreign IPs submitting comments :rolleyes:) so it is very easy.

TCB
 
And the letter to may congressmen;
Greetings, Mr. Govt Sanctioned Bum,
I am writing to seek your opposition to the proposed changes regarding the ITAR which amount to a digital "assault weapons ban" to be passed without congressional action and implemented by restrictions on public speech; namely the re-definition of the term "defense articles" subject to restriction of foreign-export. It appears the reclassification of assorted "technical data" pertaining to previously-classified "defense articles" represents an unprecedented expansion of the scope of regulation.

Specifically, how this newly claimed authority pertains to the area of firearms. Throughout the entirety of this nation's history, the lawful design, construction, and discussion of firearms amongst the public has been thoughtfully protected, in keeping with the first and second amendments to the US Constitution. The rule changes described in the federal register appear to usurp this intentional protection, using the justification of the appearance of internet communication, yet the regulatory changes extend far beyond mere internet exchange.

The rule requires anyone creating newly defined ITAR "defense article" data or media to first seek State Department approval and registration before proceeding with its release into the public sphere. Apart from the prohibitory tax burden imposed by mandatory ITAR registration, this approval process constitutes a severe prior restraint on speech that has until now has been clearly protected by US statutes. Anyone interested in learning the details of firearms operation, design, construction, or performance would inevitably become entrapped by these far reaching regulatory changes that seek to restrict access to all new firearms technical data not already in the public sphere. Such a result would be a fiscal and legal nightmare for both the government and those seeking to operate within this scheme, and is unacceptable.

Apart from the severe impacts on online information sharing, which is now the predominant form of communication for technical data of all kinds, the new material classification rules would prevent the publishing of detailed technical articles and manuscripts regarding firearms in assorted print or broadcast media, even though the claimed justification for these newly claimed powers is the ascendance of the internet. The internet has been repeatedly held as no more threatening and no less protected than any other form of publication, and for the ITAR or State Department to determine online communication as especially dangerous speech is unacceptable.

The justification to classify as "defense articles" sensitive to our nation's strategic standing, the various firearm technical data, is also unsupportable. Small arms up to and including .50 caliber are perfectly legal devices for American civilians to purchase, own, build, and operate in accordance with federal and state laws. Far from constituting a national security threat, our governing documents make it clear this information and its free disclosure are absolutely critical to our security as a free nation. They cannot therefore constitute such a significant strategic or existential threat to our nation's security domestically or abroad that mere technical speech pertaining to them must be restricted severely. Such a broad restriction on speech regarding an entire class of technology in common lawful use by the public fails even the thinnest scrutiny.

I implore you to oppose this administration's proposed changes to the ITAR (International Traffic in Arms Regulation). Allowing all new discussion of 'gun technology' to be stricken from the public discourse will have an impact much like an "assault weapons ban," leading to the stagnation and atrophy of the civilian shooting sports, much as the 1994 Assault Weapons Ban did. Opposition to this proposed change is already widespread. I am certain you are already receiving letters, and will continue to receive many more in the coming months as popular opposition organizes around the NRA's call to action. The circumstances surrounding this change strongly suggest they are politically motivated, in order to keep certain gun rights activists' lawsuits from proceeding, so it is likely the administration will go ahead with the regulations, regardless of the results from the public comment period ending in August. Action on your part is needed to halt this rule change in its tracks; removing from ITAR purview all technical information pursuant to the design, construction, function, operation, and service of firearms in accordance with federal firearms laws (those accessible to civilians) would be a good place to start. Removing from their oversight, all small arms and related information, is a more thorough solution, as none constitute such an existential threat to national security as to justify restrictions on our core freedoms.

In conclusion; the proposed changes to ITAR must not be adopted. They are far too sweeping beyond the claimed purpose, the claimed purpose itself is so sweeping it falls outside the existing regulatory authority of the State Department, the type of data that would be restricted has both historical precedent and legal protection spanning centuries, and the security threat claimed in order to justify this threat is wildly exaggerated if not fabricated outright.

Once again, I seek your opposition and assistance in defeating this proposal. Thank you for your time, and your service to the state & nation.
TCB
 
Two weeks left...

Just a reminder, the comment period ends August 3rd. Only 7000 comments, so far.

Please post something in opposition here if you have not already;
http://www.regulations.gov/#!documentDetail;D=DOS-2015-0023-0001

I haven't done much research into the issue in the last several weeks (since the lathe arrived), but there was a press conference that appears to confirm what was thought;
http://www.pagunblog.com/2015/06/15/department-of-state-comments-on-itar-rule-changes/

-Private citizens posting online will be subject to the regs, not just licensees
-All "technical data and detailed schematics" for firearms or ammunition will be controlled by ITAR
-Only generic discussion or pictures of firearms, and data already in the public domain will not be subject

"Well, I go back to the – also the point that general descriptions – that is general, not technical and detailed ones – general descriptions or public discussions and imagery of defense articles would – have never been subject to these regulations and wouldn’t —" Mr. Rathke of the conference, speaking for the State Dept.

So basically, it would appear we could continue to have caliber/platform war threads, and fantasize about the end of the world, and complain about gun laws. But we would be unable to discuss (or even access, since it would be closed off to us) the detailed function of cutting-edge weapons systems, or new sight/targeting technology, new methods or techniques for producing guns (or accessories) ourselves, or even new projectile or ammunition technology.

Prepare for moderators of all boards to censor discussion of new technology or manufacturing, like they currently do illegal modification of firearms. The potential liability is too high for them not to.

TCB
 
Ian (of Forgotten Weapons) has nothing to worry about, so long as he remains focused on dead technology. That's the goal here, to stagnate the science and technology of firearms available to the public sector.

So long as he doesn't discuss details of how that new VG-1 or RP-46 his buds are working on is made, or how to work a Prexis flat into a Cetme L reproduction, he should be fine. Nothing original will be kosher if the rule change is enforced (most likely, its uncertain enforcement will lead moderators to restrict discussions to avoid the issue, as we already do most places with regard to illegal or heavily-regulated firearms modifications like select fire conversions or silencer manufacture)

ETA: thanks mods, for cleaning up some posts ;)

TCB
 
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Has TFL investigated a foreign hosting service?
Even if those of us in the US can't post, we can still view the international communities posts and possibly the archives if "exported" befor ethe changes take effect.

Just like the information regarding 3D printed firearms is quite available on international sites. There is no law against imports.
 
Are we really free? It is the crux of the entire debate. Such limitations as are intended in these new "laws" are a clear violation of our first amendment rights. I find it utterly appalling that we have to even discuss the subject. How far we are removed from the ideals upon which this country was founded. Next will come the banning of gun magazines as they extend the tentacles of their regulatory power. Will we only be allowed to discuss such things in the privacy of our own homes, or will that, too, ultimately be unlawful, as our "smart" homes stand guard to protect us from ourselves? Am I the only one here who finds the debate horrifying? Okay, sheeple, we think you're going to be far better off in this pasture, and keep in mind that is for your own good, because we, the wisest of all humanity have deemed it so. This discussion should not be happening.
 
The foreign host option I have heard bandied about as a cure-all for these regulations. I just don't see it, at least not so long as you expect to have American contributors.

The crime I'm worried about is not hosting the stuff, it's tossing it up there for the world to see in the first place. A foreign host would be fine and unreachable by the US (maybe not the owners, however), but the only way to safely upload content would be to use encrypted proxy networks like Tor or something, basically shifting operations over to a shady dark net.

That shady subterfuge aspect is what I object to the most, since there is nothing whatsoever immoral or illegal about designing, building, and talking about gun technology. I refuse to be made into a Dale Gribble by my own government.

This whole expansion of ITAR is utterly unwarranted. I've said before and I'll say again; no firearm technology is capable of constituting a national security risk, they are simple too small-scale a weapon. The hostile army wielding them is the national security risk. ITAR was passed to protect nuclear missiles and strategic bomber technology from passing out of the nation through proxies posing as customers to defense contractors. The overly broad law is finally coming home to roost.

ronl, ITAR has been looked at sideways by civil rights types since its inception, but until fairly recently (the encryption code debacle) has not been abused to the extent that private citizens could claim damages. But here we have a spokesman openly admitting that is exactly who this latest change would apply to.

'Beware he who would deny you access to information, for in his heart, he dreams himself your master.' Wise words from a video game that should be mandatory playing in civics class.

TCB
 
Important Developments on the Proposed ITAR Changes

It appears we are finally getting some influential figures paying attention to the issue, Senators Ron Johnson (R-WI) and Chuck Grassley (R-IA). More importantly, it is in the form of an impeccably well-written and official request for comment from The Honorable Mr. Kerry while he convalesces somewhere. Appears to have been announced three days ago, though I've seen no mention anywhere of it (letter is actually from a week before that). Very significant, since the last 'comment' on the matter from the State Department did not inspire confidence that this proposal does not constitute a massive threat to both free speech and the right to keep and bear arms. I ask everyone reading to look over the letter; this is not some rabble-rousing boilerplate meant to play to the constituents; it is a very official request/order seeking clarification on articulated concerns. Multiple examples of now-legal online firearms activity are put forward, with a request for how they would be held under the regulation. At first glance, several would appear to be problematic if the rules change goes forward.

From the letter (emphasis mine):
Because the proposal grants the State Department the power to classify what is and what is not in the "public domain" for "defense articles" under ITAR, the Department will apparently have unilateral authority to require citizens to seek preapproval for what had previously been free speech. Given the proposal's nexus to firearms, a number of Second Amendment and Constitutional rights organizations have expressed concern over the chilling effects that this regulation may have on free speech and the right to bear arms. When asked about these constitutional implications, the State Department has been unable to adequately clarify what specific activities would be subject to preapproval under the proposal. So far, during the public comment period, over six thousand [make that seven thousand] comments have been submitted by citizens, with the overwhelming majority opposing these proposed changes.

The State department actually had a press conference last month in which some very basic questions about the implications of the proposal were taken.

QUESTION: Okay. So these rules would not apply to private citizens, only to manufacturers – and only to highly sensitive technical details? Is that --

MR RATHKE: They apply to the technical data and detailed schematics for the production of defense articles.

QUESTION: So they don’t apply to private citizens.

MR RATHKE: Well, they apply to anything that relates to those areas of subject matter, whether discussed by --

QUESTION: Okay. Well, the concern that had been raised by the Second Amendment groups is somehow this is going to restrict or stop or ban discussions about gun – about firearms --

MR RATHKE: Well, I go back to the – also the point that general descriptions – that is general, not technical and detailed ones – general descriptions or public discussions and imagery of defense articles would – have never been subject to these regulations and wouldn’t --

QUESTION: So the concern that has been expressed is misplaced, yes?

MR RATHKE: Yes, that would be our view.

Not only do they seem to confirm my/our/the senators' worries, but the reporter actually appeared to volunteer an end to the line of questioning when it appeared the spokesman was floundering and about to say something really stupid. What the spokesman was getting at was hardly a misplacement of our concerns.

Until this letter, there has been literally zero news or effort on this subject since the press conference. We have only ten days left, people. Submit your comments now if you have not done so already. Please forward the letter to whatever blogs or forums you frequent, since there is precious little time remaining to bog down this comment process. The State Department has far more resources to sift through these than the ATF, and a random sampling of the submitted objections shows that a large fraction of them will be discounted out of hand as garbage. This is the link to the proposed change's docket; there is a great, big "comment now" button --use it if you have not already.

My hope is that the issue will take off now that there is a letter to rally behind, much as happened with the M855 issue toward the end of the comment period. Hit up your senators, get them on board as co-signors. Don't bother trying to explain the issue or why you care about it to them, they will just reply that they oppose assault weapon bans (at best). None other than Mr. Cruz and other local 'tea party' types did exactly this; the issue is simply too complex to relay in a handful of sentences, so just demand they support these two senator's well-wrought efforts.

TCB
 
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