New here/ reloading about 9mm
- Thread starter fossitms
- Start date
I load for lots of different calibers in rifle, handgun, and shotgun.
The only thing I have had a problem with as far as semi-auto handgun was the 9mm brass.
The last batch that I bought was once fired 9s. During the process of prepping the brass for loading, I noticed that some went into the expander die with almost no effort. I found the easy ones were all federal. They were thinner at the mouth and didn't have the bullet hold that the others did.
I relegated those to cast bullets since I load over sized and they work better for me.
Also, I found that the WW headstamps have a little thicker rim. This only matters to me when priming.
The only thing I have had a problem with as far as semi-auto handgun was the 9mm brass.
The last batch that I bought was once fired 9s. During the process of prepping the brass for loading, I noticed that some went into the expander die with almost no effort. I found the easy ones were all federal. They were thinner at the mouth and didn't have the bullet hold that the others did.
I relegated those to cast bullets since I load over sized and they work better for me.
Also, I found that the WW headstamps have a little thicker rim. This only matters to me when priming.
DonP, we don't have to agree.
I just started reloading 9mm.
I bought a bunch of Remington ammo for the brass.
I also bought 1,000 rounds range brass.
Using the Misc Brass and the Remington brass I get a difference of one half the Extreme Spread. Sometimes its only one shot in 10 to throw it off.
I do not have that problem using all the same headstamp brass.
This is the same load, powder charge, bullet, primer and dillion press.
Max SD with sorted brass is between 6 and 15 depending on powder and bullet.
With mixed brass its 22 to 30.
I also find the ES or SD with mixed brass is greater between a 3" barrel and 5" barrel.
With CFE pistol, matched brass and Nosler 124 HP, I get SD of 6 in the 5" and 8 in the 3"
Take it for what its worth. I load for consistency.
David
I just started reloading 9mm.
I bought a bunch of Remington ammo for the brass.
I also bought 1,000 rounds range brass.
Using the Misc Brass and the Remington brass I get a difference of one half the Extreme Spread. Sometimes its only one shot in 10 to throw it off.
I do not have that problem using all the same headstamp brass.
This is the same load, powder charge, bullet, primer and dillion press.
Max SD with sorted brass is between 6 and 15 depending on powder and bullet.
With mixed brass its 22 to 30.
I also find the ES or SD with mixed brass is greater between a 3" barrel and 5" barrel.
With CFE pistol, matched brass and Nosler 124 HP, I get SD of 6 in the 5" and 8 in the 3"
Take it for what its worth. I load for consistency.
David
I took the rounds to the range today, they all fired fine. I also brought a box of factory load to compare. I had better grouping with my reloads, but there was a lot of soot on the outside of the case. From what I gathered it means the pressure is to low. So my next batch I will shorten the coal with the same grains of powder. I’m following Hornady’s loads for Titegroup and there bullet. They say the coal should be 1.100 but also a max load of 4.1. I’m just gonna work my way down and see what I like.
Good for you! What you could do next is load 10ea at 1.130" or 1.125" with the same charge and then load 10ea. more at 1.115 and see what happens. This will also give you a feel for what the change has done to the load as far as recoil and accuracy.
You could just drop to the short length as Hornady suggests and be fine but again from my way of thinking is you will miss out on a learning opportunity as small as it might be.
You could just drop to the short length as Hornady suggests and be fine but again from my way of thinking is you will miss out on a learning opportunity as small as it might be.
locknloader
New member
@fossitms - i ran into the same issue with titegroup and 9mm, the charge is too low. (but good on you for starting with the lowest charge, i did the same with my first 9mm loads) If you bump it up to the middle-higher end of the suggested load range on hodgdon website for titegroup it will reduce the soot.
HP-38 is a good alternative, its a little more flakey than titegroup but meters well and produces less soot at lower charges IMO.
Good luck getting things tuned in and stay safe.
HP-38 is a good alternative, its a little more flakey than titegroup but meters well and produces less soot at lower charges IMO.
Good luck getting things tuned in and stay safe.
Why shorten?
Because he is very low on pressure because of the over length suggested by Hornady so he is going to have to do one of 2 things. Either shorten length or increase powder charge.
I would rather see the 1st choice over the 2nd choice for a new person. Don't know if you would shoot sooty rounds but I wouldn't. Even if they did completely cycle the gun.
Because he is very low on pressure because of the over length suggested by Hornady so he is going to have to do one of 2 things. Either shorten length or increase powder charge.
I would rather see the 1st choice over the 2nd choice for a new person. Don't know if you would shoot sooty rounds but I wouldn't. Even if they did completely cycle the gun.
jetinteriorguy
New member
For OAL first I load up a long dummy round and start plunking. Keep seating deeper until it plunks, then I go .01" deeper to allow for variance. This is where I start with a beginning load and work my way up. Especially with Titegroup, while its a good powder to use it can be very unforgiving. I've been handloading for over 30 years and a couple of minor mistakes added together using Titegroup blew the top off my 627 last weekend. After many thousands of rounds over the years and never any incidents it bit me. Luckily no one was hurt but was a real wake up call for me. I have a very redundant system for safety but found a flaw in my system that led to this happening.
So do I David R. I tested factory 380 rounds and my reloads against each other for chrono. Factory rounds varied as my reloads varied. When comparing the 2 printouts from chrono without knowing which was which you would not be able to tell the difference. My reloads were mixed headstamps and while shooting reloads shooters will not be able to feel or tell the difference when rounds are varying 30-50-80 FPS in chrono
Running a U die will take a lot of the inconsistencies out of mixed brass. There will still be some so if you are a bullseye competitor you might want to sort your brass, but even some of those guys say don't bother.
ETA: Yes I know that it is working the brass more, but the results are worth the shorter brass life. In addition to being more consistent on the target, the failure rate on the case gauge is extremely low (like less than one per a thousand). Besides 9mm brass is cheap, even if you are buying new.
ETA: Yes I know that it is working the brass more, but the results are worth the shorter brass life. In addition to being more consistent on the target, the failure rate on the case gauge is extremely low (like less than one per a thousand). Besides 9mm brass is cheap, even if you are buying new.
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jetinteriorguy the plunk test isn't always a sure fire method of determining length as I have one 9mm that with 124gr RN bullets I could load then all the way out to 1.180 and they will still seat. Only they will not fit in the magazine. Too long.
Funny thing is that as long as the lead is in the throat of this barrel it is still very accurate.
Don't get me wrong, I still use the plunk test on every new load with an unfamiliar bullet or new gun.
Funny thing is that as long as the lead is in the throat of this barrel it is still very accurate.
Don't get me wrong, I still use the plunk test on every new load with an unfamiliar bullet or new gun.
Jim Watson
New member
The loaded round must
1. Fit the chamber. Bullet should be off the lands except in the special case of .45 ACP SWC target loads. Plunk test, barrels and bullets differ. You can hardly ever get to the MAXIMUM of 1.169" except with rather pointy RN.
2. Fit the magazine. Magazines differ, too. A friend had some foreign made hardball bought cheap for his STEN gun that would bind in the magazine of his Glock.
3. Feed from magazine to chamber. If I have an OAL that feeds, I am not going to mess with it. Contrary to KMW, I had rather see you increase the powder charge within tested limits than to seat deeper to avoid soot. Actually, I don't worry about soot, I load for
power factor.
1. Fit the chamber. Bullet should be off the lands except in the special case of .45 ACP SWC target loads. Plunk test, barrels and bullets differ. You can hardly ever get to the MAXIMUM of 1.169" except with rather pointy RN.
2. Fit the magazine. Magazines differ, too. A friend had some foreign made hardball bought cheap for his STEN gun that would bind in the magazine of his Glock.
3. Feed from magazine to chamber. If I have an OAL that feeds, I am not going to mess with it. Contrary to KMW, I had rather see you increase the powder charge within tested limits than to seat deeper to avoid soot. Actually, I don't worry about soot, I load for
power factor.
Jim Watson in practice I agree with increasing powder charge but this fellow is brand new to loading and do not want to get him off on the wrong foot by suggesting loading past the recommended max charge. That seems to be the one thing I see preached everywhere. Follow the load, work up slowly and do not exceed max.
Another thought with short bullets and extended lengths is the amount of bullet entering the case. As the depth decreases where at what point does it start to effect neck tension?
Another thought with short bullets and extended lengths is the amount of bullet entering the case. As the depth decreases where at what point does it start to effect neck tension?
Rather than mess with the geometry/dimensions of your reloads when you need/want higher pressure and velocity, just up the powder charge. K.I.S.S. By increasing the powder charge you will have a good idea how much your chamber pressure will increase, but shortening the seating depth is pretty much a WAG as I've never seen a chart of how much in either PSI or CUP chamber pressure increases with a specific powder charge, but smaller combustion chamber...
If you are at or near max. try another powder. Or live with soot on the case OD. How well do the rounds function? Are they accurate?
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FWIW; I've read a lot of opinions on 9mm FC brass being thinner and resulting neck tension, or lack thereof, can cause problems. I'm building my 9mm "just in case" stash and have about 200 rounds loaded using mixed brass so I went through the reloads and picked out all the FC (Federal) case rounds. I pulled out about 18-20, and measured the OAL. I'm using mixed brass, RMR 125 gr. JHP, mixed cases sized in Lee dies, M die expanded, Lee bullet seating die, case straightened with an RCBS taper crimp die, no "crimp". I measured, then pushed the cartridge against the bench and remeasured (I pushed fairly hard, leaning hard enough to start pain in my fingers). Not one out of the bunch moved, even .001"...
Jes thinking and my "testing"...
Jes thinking and my "testing"...
Headstamps, I sort mine too. Not that I believe it is necessary But just because I am retired and have the time. I figure it can't hurt and might help in a number of ways, if nothing more than adding another layer of consistency. When I load random headstamps I find were I can feel some cases being tighter or stiffer or ones that the primer pockets are tighter or looser. Then loading on a Lee press that uses a turret that has a tolerance in order to turn I find that these cases that are harder to size or have more resistance changes the press ever so slightly and contributes to COAL variances. It might only be .002"/.004" but it's there. I realize I am not making perfect ammo on a Turret press but it is still more accurate than me. Besides it doesn't cost me anything other than my time which I have plenty of.
So the other day I did spend time sorting brass, lots of it. All FC and R*P and I found that both have easily identified different stamps.
The FC I did I found this; Headstamp *F C*, headstamp F C 9mm and headstamp F C 9MM and among the 1st one and the Last one I also found cases with those headstamps that also had a cannelure in it.
The R*P also had three distinct headstamps.
I have loaded all three of the different FC headstamps and I certainly didn't notice a difference or problems.
So the other day I did spend time sorting brass, lots of it. All FC and R*P and I found that both have easily identified different stamps.
The FC I did I found this; Headstamp *F C*, headstamp F C 9mm and headstamp F C 9MM and among the 1st one and the Last one I also found cases with those headstamps that also had a cannelure in it.
The R*P also had three distinct headstamps.
I have loaded all three of the different FC headstamps and I certainly didn't notice a difference or problems.
jetinteriorguy
New member
KMW1954, good catch. I did neglect to mention checking fit in your mags. In addition I also load up five dummy rounds to check for function by manually cycling the action. Once I have finished this process to determine OAL for a bullet I then start from the bottom of the suggested load and work my way up.