New Florida concealed firearm/gun law; veterans...

[jgcoastie]

A lot of the mandated training involves the legal use of firearms in a state. What aspect of military firearms training address that issue?

Well, I guess we shouldn't talk about the states where there is no training requirement... And let's not even begin to discuss the 4 states where a permit is not required for concealed-carry... Vermont, Alaska, Wyoming, Arizona...

How do you know not to beat your annoying neighbor to death with a ball-peen hammer? Morality issues aside, we know that it's illegal.

How do you know you're not supposed to just walk out of a store with items without paying? Morality issues aside, we know that it's illegal.

How do we know we're not supposed to shoot people at random? Pull our weapon out when we're walking through the produce section? Brandish and wave our weapon around when we see someone who looks the slightest bit "shady"? Um, I think it's because we know it's illegal.



I think our society is long overdue for a time where we stop waiting for people to spell things out for us step-by-step, use the common sense that God gave a jackrabbit, and figure out stuff for ourselves. Why should we have to be told what we're supposed to do? Can't we all read? My line of thought is this: if you're going to take on the responsibility of carrying a weapon, you are also responsible enough to determine lawful use of said weapon.

And all of that aside, my military handgun training has included years of basic, practical, and judgemental pistol courses, use of force, weapons retention, and non-lethal compliance/defense techniques.

I think I'm qualified, so does my CO, who just renewed my carry qual.

 

[Aguila Blanca]

To some of the other post, there are some CCW holders that should not have firearm either. But we are supposed to be advocates of gun rights, and you advocating in the incorrect direction. Firearm training is continuous, not just a one time deal to meet a requirement to get your CCW.

How am I advocating in the wrong direction? In this discussion, I have not advocated in ANY direction, I have only addressed what I felt were factually incorrect statements. When I don my advocacy hat, as you can verify by searching on my screen name and reading my other posts, I am strongly in favor of interpreting the 2nd amendment to mean exactly what it says. Which means that, IMHO, ALL requirements for CCWs, mandatory training, and anything related thereto are unconstitutional infringements on a fundamental right that states in its own text "shall not be infringed."

 

[BlueTrain]

I believe a few service people go directly into the service without even taking basic training but some musicians are about all I can think of. Perhaps chaplains, who generally do not ever carry weapons.

 

[MTT TL]

I believe a few service people go directly into the service without even taking basic training but some musicians are about all I can think of. Perhaps chaplains, who generally do not ever carry weapons.

I can't speak for all the services but in the Army all enlisted soldiers go to basic, even the band (They have to learn how to march you know).

Officers go a variety of different paths. Chaplains are not allowed firearms generally and have an assistant who functions as a guard (although I have known a few who were avid shooters and hunters). Therefore they have no firearms training.

Everyone else gets firearms training at some point. In the old days certain objectors who went into certain medical jobs did not get firearms training. This is no longer true. The military no longer drafts/ accepts objectors and has not for many years. Even the cook has to go to the range and qualify.

Until recently the band had the responsibility for providing security to the headquarters. Someone figured however that infantry do a better job than trombonists at security as a general rule.

 

[WyMark]

Wyoming accepted my DD214 from 1979 for my CCW permit, but it does state that I qualified "expert". (Don't remember now if there were separate qualifications listed for rifle and handgun. I think there was one for grenades, though.)

 

[chack]

I may take heat for this, but being a veteran doesn't guarantee any familiarity with firearms, especially handguns.

 

[Aguila Blanca]

I may take heat for this, but being a veteran doesn't guarantee any familiarity with firearms, especially handguns.

Where in the 2nd Amendment is there any mention of a familiarity with firearms requirement as a prerequisite to exercising the right to keep and bear arms?

 

[BlueTrain]

I am sure there are some Marines here who will double check the facts about this but according to a newspaper article, the members of Pershing's Own, the US Marine Corps Band stationed at the Marine Corps Barracks in Washington, DC, do not go to boot camp. However, the article was about the bandmaster at the time who did in fact go through boot camp.

 

[MTT TL]

The one band in the USMC "The Presidents Own" does not go to Boot camp as they have no combat mission. All other band members go to boot camp. The chance of running into one of those guys is about the same as running into a Navy Seal who served in Vietnam.

In other words you most likely never will.

 

[BlueTrain]

I didn't go to Vietnam (that's what the Marines were for) but I've been to the Marine Corps barracks in D.C. and saw them "in action."

 

[cow0man]

Aguila Blanca,
You misread my last post, or I more than likely did not write in clearly, as the first part was addressed to you, not the part about not being an advocate. The last sentence was meant for some other posts that I had read within the thread. I apologize for any confusion.

 

[ClydeFrog]

Post 9/11/2001 era veterans...

If you can get past the TVLand reruns of Gomer Pyle USMC, you may want to learn more about the service branches & skill training of today's combat veterans.
The US Air Force changed many basic training SOPs to include small arms.
The USMC made basic training longer & tougher too.
Yes, there are some veterans who couldn't be trusted with a butter knife & a bag of cotton candy but in fairness, 1,000s of US military veterans could be aided or benefit from the new Florida carry law.
This carry/gun law does not replace formal skill training or learning proper tactics either but smart GIs know they can always improve their skill sets.

CF

 

[MLeake]

IIRC, when I took my FL CCW class, the only firearm shooting qualification involved shots fired safely down range. Hits were not counted.

Also, IIRC, my DD214 reflects navy Expert (221+ out of 240pts on target) pistol and rifle quals, but I would have to check.

IE, military training, even basic, exceeds FL requirements as far as handling and shooting go.

My concern is over the legal training part, which I did NOT get in the Navy - well, I did, but that was from temp assignment to a security unit and not the norm. In more typical assignments, I learned about the Law of Armed Conflict and the Combined Joint Chiefs of Staff Rules of Engagement, but those do not apply to CCW.

Then again, I prefer Constitutional Carry, and think training should be up to the citizen. (I also think the smart citizen is one who trains a lot.)

 

[Aguila Blanca]

When I obtained my Florida carry permit, it came with a pamphlet from the State of Florida outlining the basic firearms and self defense laws for the state. Not comprehensive, but enough information to keep most people out of jail most of the time, and equal to what gets discussed in firearms pre-licensure classes.

Pennsylvania, New Hampshire and Connecticut sent me ... nothing with the license.

 

[MLeake]

My Georgia license required proof of GA residence, a fingerprint card, an application form, a criminal background check, and payment. No training, firearm or legal, required.

And some states (Alaska, Vermont, Wyoming I think) don't require a license.

 

[Justice06RR]

I don't know about this. I know a few vets that shouldn't be allowed to have a water gun let alone a firearm. Just my thought on this.

Funny, because we all know and have seen many police officers/LEO's who shouldn't even have a badge or carry a gun.

Veterans who have already served their country and given their lives to protect our freedoms should have some sort of advantage, as long as they prove they have some firearms training and competent with the local laws.

 

[Aguila Blanca]

Veterans who have already served their country and given their lives to protect our freedoms should have some sort of advantage, as long as they prove they have some firearms training and competent with the local laws.

Frankly, I believe that a veteran who has already given his life to protect my freedom should not have to prove he has firearms training. Aside from the fact that the 2nd Amendment says nothing about proof of firearms training or legal knowledge, if you're going to give dead veterans an advantage I think it should be a REAL advantage. And since dead fingers probably can't shoot a handgun anyway, why should they have to prove anything to anyone?











Sorry -- I couldn't resist. I was an editor in a past life.

 

[ClydeFrog]

Out of the game....

I've been out of the game for many years but to my limited knowledge, the soldiers in the US Army band(MOS for band members) are also cross trained to work as ARMED guards for EPWs(enemy prisoners of war) by DA(US Dept of the Army) regulations.
They go through formal training at FT Story VA near Fort Eustis(or Useless, ).
A US Army MP Staff Sgt(E-6) I knew told me he was a cadre there in the 1990s.

CF

 

[kraigwy]

I didn't go to Vietnam (that's what the Marines were for)

Contrary to popular belief, there were a few of us Army guys in Vietnam. Also, though it seems to be lacking from History, there were more army divisions in the South Pacific in WWII then there were marine divisions.

We just don't have the publicist the marines have.

Back to the main topic: I find it odd that we send a 18-19 year old kid to war with multi million dollar weapon systems yet when they come home they have to jump through hoops to carry a pistol/revolver. They can't buy a handgun. How much sense does that make?

Wyoming was mentioned, where you can get a CC Permit with a DD214, true, but you could also get one with a hunter safety card. Actual shooting isn't a requirement for a hunter safety card in Wyoming. Which is a moot point now because you don't need a permit to carry concealed here now.

Anyway, hats off to Florida for realizing if some one is mature enough to risk his/her life for their country, they are mature enough to carry concealed.

 

[oneounceload]

Anyway, hats off to Florida for realizing if some one is mature enough to risk his/her life for their country, they are mature enough to carry concealed.

That's quite an assumption - that folks willing to enlist in the Army are mature at 18 or 19

What about those at that age who didn't go into the military but have clean records, jobs and an education? Why aren't they afforded the same deal?

Sorry, it isn't a big deal to get a FL CCW