New FIRING plastic firearm now available...

The 3D printing technology is still a baby, one the general public starts consuming 3D printers the technology will grow I am sure, "plastics" and other materials will develop more.
This guy is just doing a couple of concept guns technology usually take many people working on idea. I think it could grow into something.

I hate plastic on guns, but I do find this pretty fascinating.
 
ABS printed gun Quiz of the day:

1) What is the lowest combustion temperature of any generally available gun powder?
2) What is the melting temperature of ABS plastic?
3) What happens when the combustion temperature is greater than the melting point of the container confining it?


Answers:
1) ~ 3000 F
2) 221 F
3) don't be there

Unless there is magic going on with the ABS (assumed :) ) to be used for the Liberator, I don't think I'd want to be there for the first shot, and certainly for the second shot.

What did I miss?
 
Txaz said:
1) What is the lowest combustion temperature of any generally available gun powder?
2) What is the melting temperature of ABS plastic?
3) What happens when the combustion temperature is greater than the melting point of the container confining it?


Answers:
1) ~ 3000 F
2) 221 F
3) don't be there
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Technically, ABS plastic doesn't have a "melting temperature", it breaks down but does not "melt".

What is the melting point of steel?

1500F

Less than half of your stated powder temperature... take note that your barrel doesn't get anywhere remotely close to 1,500, over even 200F, under any sort of normal conditions.

The thing is, 3D printers don't necessarily use ABS plastic, either. They can also use epoxy resins and virtually any material that can be "powdered", including steel.

So, the fact that they've printed this gun out of plastic is really secondary to the fact that they've PRINTED a GUN. The technology will continue to advance and, eventually, will be available to the common man in a much more sophisticated form.
 
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Unless there is magic going on with the ABS (assumed ) to be used for the Liberator, I don't think I'd want to be there for the first shot, and certainly for the second shot.
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Here ya go, video of it being fired. I believe that was a .380.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=drPz6n6UXQY

As Brian said, if the combustion temp of powder vs the melting point of the components were an issue, there's no go in use today that would be safe. Will the gun eventually wear out? You bet. I can't imagine the rifling (if it even has rifling?) would last too long, and I imagine parts in the action and barrel would eventually warp. But as long as it's over-built enough, I doubt it would catastrophically fail after just one round.

Anyway, this is just a proof of concept. They built a pistol almost completely out of 3D printed plastic (with only a common nail as the only required, additional part, as a firing pin) that fired without failing. That's very impressive. Imagine what we'll see when this process gets more refined and the materials get better.
 
Good points gaerek, but I believe the significant difference in temperatures is a much greater risk, as the therms (BTU's) are also there with enough rounds (ala an M2 barrel will melt and droop with enough continuous firing). My guess is it will take significantly fewer rounds to affect the ABS barrel.

In reactionary governments :) it might result in new legislation outlawing 3D printing. In other it may result in more ineffective and misguided laws.
 
I don't see myself owning a "printed gun" in the next 30 years. Maybe a gun with some printed components, but not one where the barrel, firing pin, cylinder, bolt, and springs and hard-wear items were printed. I think this will just go the way of the Dardick and Gyrojet.

Maybe I'll risk getting spanked by one of the Mods in 10 years and re-open this thread just to say...."I told you so".:D
 
Gun no....but the thought of printed magazines makes me giggle.

From the book "Jedburghs", the Liberator was never the great sucess it was intended to be, but what the heck, nifty name.

From what I've read, the BATFE is already starting to get antsy about this thing.
 
Very interesting topic. I don't see these as being a viable weapons system for some time if ever. People the world over have been making 'zip' guns from pipes, springs etc for a long time. Those lucky enough to have access to machine shops can make whatever they want. I don't see a widespread love of a plastic printed weapon at this time. Perhaps as tech evolves, but then, laws are sure to be enacted that prohibit three D printed weapons. This whole thing could blow up in the face of the RKBA community. If making your own gun is prohibited because of the fear of these new guns, one could forfeit the legal right to make a gun for themselves from any material/manufacturing process.
 
Post 36 & 48; M3A1 "Grease Gun"...

Posts; #36 & 48 bring up points that I made near the start of the topic. :rolleyes:

As widely known, these cheap Libertator firearms which I think fired one/01 .45acp 230gr milspec bullet were never meant to stop any Nazi tanks or swarms of SS troops.

To me, they were almost like the M3A1 Grease Gun .45acp SMGs cranked out by the 1,000s and handed out like candy bars. I heard they were not very popular in SE Asia and were later filtered down to NG/US Army Reserve units in CONUS. My E-6/SSG Army recruiter was in Armor and told me they had a few in the 1980s in Europe(Germany) as a 2nd gun/back up. He said the Grease Guns functioned but were never accurate or ideal for regular combat use.

CF
 
Sure this technology seems like a "breakthrough", but I'd really just prefer a standard gun made by a reputable company like S&W or Glock.

When this 3D plastic gun becomes 100% reliable and repeatable, let me know..
 
my Platoon Sergeant told me, that as a 17 year old PFC in Gulf War I, he was issued an M-3 Grease Gun as a Bradley IFV crewman.

Delta Force founder, Colonel Charlie Beckwith, showing his Georgia depression era roots, never threw anything away, and as a result, Delta Force had a large collection both suppressed and un-suppressed M-3s up until the mid-80s. I always thought that was a neat tidbit, because to me the gun looks exactly like something a commando would use.
 
I think people are missing the point of why this is such a big deal. People keep talking about how the gun isn't practical, or that they'll never own one, or 3D printers are so expensive that they're not worth buying just to make guns.

First of all, let me comment on the printers being expensive, issue. Back in 2000, when I was going to school at the University of Alaska Fairbanks, they had a brand new 3D printer. The technology was at it's serious infancy. The entire setup (if my memory serves me) costed around $250,000. It was painfully slow to print. I got some time on it for a class I was in, and had created a Utah Teapot (for those in computers, and computer modelling, this makes sense). I have it somewhere, but I don't know where. It's about 1.5" x 1.5" x 1.5", and it took about 20 minutes to print.

Fast forward to today. Printers that cost $20,000 in 2010 are selling in the $2,000 range today. You can buy 3D printers that have more capability than the one I used 13 years ago for $500. That's well within the range of some higher end photo printers, and something that most people can afford.

So what am I getting at? This tech will get cheaper and cheaper. Almost anyone can afford one of these printers today. The materials will get stronger and stronger. The models (for building the parts) will get better and better. These guns aren't for an EDC. They're not meant to be something that lasts. But when you're looking at $10 worth of material to make a working gun...that's absolutely amazing. Anyone with a $500 printer, a model of a gun, and some ABS printer material can make guns.

Yes, these are the lowest quality guns you've ever seen. They won't last long. You're probably not going to shoot much at the range. But that's not the point. The fact that anyone can build a gun with little training or experience is absolutely fascinating. Nothing will replace metal for high wear parts in a gun, but if you need a gun, soon you'll just be able to print on.
 
I just ran across an article by Forbes about this gun. There have been over 100,000 downloads of the file with the plans for the gun. Granted, most probably don't own a 3D printer, they've probably been downloaded due to the threat of possible future legislation banning this kind of thing. Given what I mentioned above about how inexpensive these printers are becoming...and we have something pretty amazing here.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/andygre...s-in-two-days-with-some-help-from-kim-dotcom/

Here's a quote from the article, that sums up why this is such a big deal, and is so important, regardless if any gun on the shelf of a gun store is actually better.

But Defense Distributed’s real goal hasn’t been to create an undetectable gun so much as an uncensorable, digital one. As the group’s founder radical libertarian founder Cody Wilson sees it, firearms can be made into a printable file that blurs the line between gun control and information censorship, blending the First Amendent and the Second and demonstrating how technology can render the government irrelevant.
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Now that's intriguing.
 
I'm listening to Cody Wilson being interviewed right now. The gov has "requested" that he remove printable weapons from his website citing the Export
Act. The program has been downloaded over 100,000 times.
 
But when you're looking at $10 worth of material to make a working gun...that's absolutely amazing....Yes, these are the lowest quality guns you've ever seen. They won't last long. You're probably not going to shoot much at the range. But that's not the point. The fact that anyone can build a gun with little training or experience is absolutely fascinating.
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Zip guns - anyone can build one with $10 worth of materials. You don't need a fancy printer to make one. And, a decent zip gun will last for a long time.

I have several pen flares made in the '60's. Very similar to pen guns (now classified as aow). There's nothing to them, but at least these are made of steel and won't blow up if you fire them several times.

People with little or no training have been building rudimentary forms of guns for decades.
 
Zip guns - anyone can build one with $10 worth of materials. You don't need a fancy printer to make one. And, a decent zip gun will last for a long time.
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Zip guns have evolved to their limitations. basically materials and tools to build them.

3D printing is growing so limitations are getting surpassed every month. It is still a baby and has a long ways to evolve.
 
Zip guns - anyone can build one with $10 worth of materials. You don't need a fancy printer to make one. And, a decent zip gun will last for a long time.
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Here's the problem with that line of thinking. A zip gun made today will look basically the same way as one made 100 years ago. To make the zip gun more complicated (such as giving it a magazine of some kind, or making it repeating or even autoloading) requires a milling machine and drill press, and knowledge of how to use them properly. Simply said, there's no such thing as an easy to build semiauto zipgun.

On the other hand, we have the first fully functional firearm made with this process. This gun is essentially a proof of concept. It sucessfully fired a round without self destructing, proving that an almost 100% plastic and 3D printed gun can fire. However, the sky is the limit when it comes to the type of designs that can be made with it. You can already 3D print AK/AR mags (the springs too). There has been a 3D printed AR lower. It's only a matter of time until a more complex design will emerge.

And to build a fully functional firearm will require absolutely no gunsmithing knowledge whatsoever. I'm going to bet that within a year, the first functional repeating 3D printed gun will be designed. And that gun will be able to be built with nothing more than a $500 3D printer, $10 worth of ABS, and 5MB worth of data. This is what sets this apart from a zip gun.

Let me put it another way. This pistol would be the equivalent of say a flintlock pistol. With a little engineering, you'll have something that functionally (maybe not in reliability) matches the performance of a modern handgun. All without ANY gunsmithing knowledge. I really can't believe people can't understand how revolutionary this is, and what the implications of this are.
 
The thing that was made out of plastic appears to be nothing more than a single-shot pistol.
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You're completely missing the point. Yes, it's single shot. It's a prototype, and a proof of concept. They made something that can be built by anyone, very cheaply, made completely of plastic, that can actually fire.

Now that they completed that milestone, just watch and see what's next. Now that they know the plastic can contain the pressures of firing, they can work on other designs. Maybe a revolver? Maybe some kind of simple semiauto? I don't know, the sky is the limit. No one is saying that they're going to build something that everyone is going to want. Buying a name brand off the shelf is going to be better. But that's not the point.

So what is the point? Consider the political climate. Consider what many elected officials already want to do, that is, remove all guns. Basically, this breakthrough means that a ban won't work, confiscation won't work. Guns can still get into the hands of the people, no matter what the government wants to do. Why do you think they are already (even before this gun was test fired) trying to pass legislation restricting or banning this?

The anti's understand the implications of this. It appears that many pro-gun people simply do not, because it's not as good as what they can buy. Because it's only a single shot novelty. Because it's no better than a zipgun. In the future, this may be the only way we will be able to have guns. That's the point.
 
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