That may be. The P365 has been one of if not the best selling pistol for a number of the past few years though, so saying not everyone is interested in the P365, while true, is seemingly ignoring a larger segment of the market than not. From a pure business perspective that doesn't seem the wisest move. S&W has one of, imo, the best single stack small pistols on the market with the Shield. And that was a pistol that was regularly much cheaper than the P365. Yet even S&W released the Shield Plus.
New CZ sig P365 coming out today
- Thread starter wild cat mccane
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wild cat mccane
New member
I wish CZ well.
But I bet we could find some BATF numbers that show the P-10 series has a whole has been a total flop in the US by units sold. I can't imagine anyone going to this for 500 dollars over any option.
An example of volume, 30,000 Walther PDPs have been imported in the US and it just came out.
But I bet we could find some BATF numbers that show the P-10 series has a whole has been a total flop in the US by units sold. I can't imagine anyone going to this for 500 dollars over any option.
An example of volume, 30,000 Walther PDPs have been imported in the US and it just came out.
I’d take that bet in a heartbeat.
I am do believe folks can absolutely defend themselves with 8-10 rounds on tap. I also believe if you currently own a shield/PPS/G43 etc. etc. I don’t think there is a pressing need beyond your desire to buy a newer 10+ round micro compact. I think your or my for that matter Walther PPS is a perfectly capable weapon in this class.
All that said barring simple pleasure / desire you would be silly not to buy one of the current crop of 10+ round micro compacts vs a single stack counter part for a defensive weapon if you are in the market. This CZ will flop, no doubt. There are simply far better choices on the market today. I simply cannot imagine releasing a new single stack micro in today’s market unless it had some extremely obvious / useful advantage like next to no weight or the size of a “noisy cricket” or something.
Would I dump a good solid single stack micro that I was happy with? Absolutely not. Would I buy one if I was in the market today? Absolutely Not.
So if you like this CZ and purchase, as I am sure it will be a fine gun, I would highly suggest you buy parts and magazines now as this thing will be gone from the market before you know it.
All that said barring simple pleasure / desire you would be silly not to buy one of the current crop of 10+ round micro compacts vs a single stack counter part for a defensive weapon if you are in the market. This CZ will flop, no doubt. There are simply far better choices on the market today. I simply cannot imagine releasing a new single stack micro in today’s market unless it had some extremely obvious / useful advantage like next to no weight or the size of a “noisy cricket” or something.
Would I dump a good solid single stack micro that I was happy with? Absolutely not. Would I buy one if I was in the market today? Absolutely Not.
So if you like this CZ and purchase, as I am sure it will be a fine gun, I would highly suggest you buy parts and magazines now as this thing will be gone from the market before you know it.
Carl the Floor Walker
Moderator
I personally have no dog in this fight. I have too many guns as it is including a Sig 365XL and other micro's. I do not want the new gun. But If I was in the Market, and looking for a gun that size range, I would NOT be so narrow minded as to not check it out. Heck, I have not even seen the gun yet for Gosh sake, I have not handled it, I have not shot it.
I will not judge this gun until I actually can be honest about it. Yes, it should IMO sell well. Will the CZ fan that wants the quality of the CZ and a smaller gun be attracted to the New gun? I would. I would at least want to try it out. And forget the nonsense that it does not come with a large double stack magazine. If that were the case I personally would NOT be interested. And I know others that feel the same way. It does however seem to large to be called a Micro 9mm. Not sure I would put it in that class.
Again, I want to see this gun. A little too large from the Specs I have seen, but it does have a more narrow grip of only 1.0. I have the XL, I do not like this gun at all. I am trading in the future, perhaps after shooting the new CZ It might the just what I would trade for. But who knows. Right now any new gun is not a good investment. I doubt I will be shooting what I do have now by the end of the next 3yrs.
I will not judge this gun until I actually can be honest about it. Yes, it should IMO sell well. Will the CZ fan that wants the quality of the CZ and a smaller gun be attracted to the New gun? I would. I would at least want to try it out. And forget the nonsense that it does not come with a large double stack magazine. If that were the case I personally would NOT be interested. And I know others that feel the same way. It does however seem to large to be called a Micro 9mm. Not sure I would put it in that class.
Again, I want to see this gun. A little too large from the Specs I have seen, but it does have a more narrow grip of only 1.0. I have the XL, I do not like this gun at all. I am trading in the future, perhaps after shooting the new CZ It might the just what I would trade for. But who knows. Right now any new gun is not a good investment. I doubt I will be shooting what I do have now by the end of the next 3yrs.
reddog81 said:
I have never heard anyone in a gun store ask about what others were clamoring over nor have I gone in to inquire about what others were buying.
Different people put different values on different design factors and a variety of other very small guns sell well. The new CZ will probably also sell well.
That’s not what reddog was saying. His point, from what I can tell, is if I put two firearms in front of someone and all else is equal except one holds fewer rounds than another or weighs substantially more, most people aren’t going to choose the one that holds fewer rounds or weighs a lot more. His point wasn’t about popularity solely driving sales.
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If capacity is important to you I’m not sure I would call it narrow minded to not be interested in this, especially as there are so many other competing products that do have more capacity. I agree capacity alone shouldn’t be the sole determining factor. But on paper I’m struggling to see the selling point here.
Not everyone has the opportunity to shoot a pistol before they buy it and around me by the time I pay for the lane, rent the pistol, and then pay for the ammunition as the places that rent require you to use their ammunition, I’m at $80. That’s a good chunk of the way to the pistol itself.
I am a CZ fan. I’ve owned at least a half dozen and I really like my P10-C. I will still handle this in a store out of curiosity. But I’m not buying it just because it’s a CZ.
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I don’t disagree, but that doesn’t mean we’re talking about people making purchases solely because of what others want.
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That’s all correct.
I just don’t see what the selling points are. Very few people are looking for a gun with a recessed takedown pin. Other than that “feature” I’m not sure what the selling points are. Weight, size, magazine capacity, looks and price are all features that sell guns.
Perceived quality, reliability and durability are also important features but those are unknowns for this new model. Numerous issues could come up or it could be the most durable gun ever made. Nobody knows.
While watching the youtube video, I was gratified that the man illustrating the disassembly made certain to show the viewing audience that it's important to verify that the pistol is unloaded first-after he looked the barrel straight in the mouth.
And finally; a subcompact, micro pistol chambered in 10m!
And finally; a subcompact, micro pistol chambered in 10m!
Carl the Floor Walker
Moderator
I can very well see the selling points.
1) it is a CZ which is know for Quality
2) streamlined for excellent carry
3) the Grip is IMO already much better than some out there. Some will appreciate it
4) some may like the Trigger
5) just because it is heavier does not mean that is a disadvantage. There are many that like a heavier pistol. Many shoot much better without the Snappy recoil.Not everyone likes a lighter weight gun.
6) Many shooters prefer a single stack. And 7+1 is Not a disadvantage to many. More than enough for PRACTICAL, EDC. And it might take a extension.
7) I have a 8+1 19oz that I would not trade any of the new models out there now that have 10+one. Lol, they do not shoot as well for me. And the Kahr CM 9 most certainly will not be going anywhere. 7+1 is perfect and still the lightest gun out there with this quality.
8) And shoot the the HK 503 much better than many of the double stacks out there. Nice gun
$MSRP of $499. Many EDC will love to have a nice quality firearm at a MSRP that low in todays world of shortages.
Again, some may fall in love with the grip, the trigger, and the shooting quality.
We should wait and see before making a judgement. If you need 10plus rounds fine. Many do not.
1) it is a CZ which is know for Quality
2) streamlined for excellent carry
3) the Grip is IMO already much better than some out there. Some will appreciate it
4) some may like the Trigger
5) just because it is heavier does not mean that is a disadvantage. There are many that like a heavier pistol. Many shoot much better without the Snappy recoil.Not everyone likes a lighter weight gun.
6) Many shooters prefer a single stack. And 7+1 is Not a disadvantage to many. More than enough for PRACTICAL, EDC. And it might take a extension.
7) I have a 8+1 19oz that I would not trade any of the new models out there now that have 10+one. Lol, they do not shoot as well for me. And the Kahr CM 9 most certainly will not be going anywhere. 7+1 is perfect and still the lightest gun out there with this quality.
8) And shoot the the HK 503 much better than many of the double stacks out there. Nice gun
$MSRP of $499. Many EDC will love to have a nice quality firearm at a MSRP that low in todays world of shortages.
Again, some may fall in love with the grip, the trigger, and the shooting quality.
We should wait and see before making a judgement. If you need 10plus rounds fine. Many do not.
If you go over to CZ USA’s Facebook page and look at the post announcing this pistol, there are many comments questioning why this capacity. Again, time will be the true indicator and for all I know this will be the best selling pistol of 2021. My point is even fans of CZ have brought up the question of capacity with regards to the competition, not just a few people on this forum. But maybe the “silent majority” will step up.
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Carl the Floor Walker
Moderator
People follow the internet like sheep.Especially New shooters. Yes,it makes for a easier sell at the local guns shops, but that does not make it the truth. Just like so many would carry multiple magazines, but yet never even heard of a case when anyone ever used a second mag. Very rare for anyone to use a firearm and even if so even extremly rare to use more than three rounds.
I truly believe you will see a movement back to single stacks, but if not, then that is fine. I am set for life, cannot ever imagine needing to carry a extra mag or needing 10 rounds. And not to forget that many experienced shooters carry a 5 shot revolver. The more studies I have done in the past year alone has shown nothing to support more than single stack. Never in all my years even read about shooting that did and I have keep up with it for years.
Just like when the LCP first came out. That was one heck of a fad and people purchasing them by the millions, yet so many never even spent much time shooting them. Red dots on guns like the LCP were very popular, but not very many now.
Again, I have NO problem with someone that feels the need for 10+ rounds. But I will not buy into it as a fact. If it gives a person piece of mind that is good enough. I have plenty of Peace of mind with my present carry.
And personally and I will say this again. If the gun Gods came down and told me I had to carry 5 shot snubbie, would not bother me a bit. Although I normally carry a 6+1 380.
I will always believe that training and Practice will trump more rounds. For some that do not train/Practice, then 10 shots may be of some help, but for real life experiences I doubt it.
A good quality single stack for EDC is a great carry. No need for a fat double stack
I truly believe you will see a movement back to single stacks, but if not, then that is fine. I am set for life, cannot ever imagine needing to carry a extra mag or needing 10 rounds. And not to forget that many experienced shooters carry a 5 shot revolver. The more studies I have done in the past year alone has shown nothing to support more than single stack. Never in all my years even read about shooting that did and I have keep up with it for years.
Just like when the LCP first came out. That was one heck of a fad and people purchasing them by the millions, yet so many never even spent much time shooting them. Red dots on guns like the LCP were very popular, but not very many now.
Again, I have NO problem with someone that feels the need for 10+ rounds. But I will not buy into it as a fact. If it gives a person piece of mind that is good enough. I have plenty of Peace of mind with my present carry.
And personally and I will say this again. If the gun Gods came down and told me I had to carry 5 shot snubbie, would not bother me a bit. Although I normally carry a 6+1 380.
I will always believe that training and Practice will trump more rounds. For some that do not train/Practice, then 10 shots may be of some help, but for real life experiences I doubt it.
A good quality single stack for EDC is a great carry. No need for a fat double stack
I’m not saying it’s “truth” (whatever that means in this context), I’m saying it’s an indication of popularity. Just because something isn’t true of all people doesn’t mean it’s not true of a majority, and in this case we’re talking about the commercial success of a product and the majority is an indicator of this.
Some people on this thread seem to have a hard time separating what they like and what is popular for current trends. For years I shot polymer framed DA/SA pistols. I liked them for various reasons and for me they were the best choice at the time. It didn’t mean I got defensive and called people “sheep” when people pointed out that they weren’t popular. I knew it and I watched the market for those pistols shrink. Something not being popular doesn’t mean it’s bad, but it doesn’t mean it’s destined for commercial success.
Many experienced shooters carry firearms with more than 5 shots, so I’m not sure that’s proof one way or the other (nor does an appeal to authority get us anywhere).
Carrying a firearm with higher capacity and marksmanship skills aren’t mutually exclusive. But we’ve had this discussion many times and I see no reason to retread that ground.
The double stacks we’re talking about are as thin or thinner than some single stacks. They’re not fat, unless those single stacks are as well. Let’s keep it to the context of this thread, than being the P10M and other options in its size.
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Some people on this thread seem to have a hard time separating what they like and what is popular for current trends. For years I shot polymer framed DA/SA pistols. I liked them for various reasons and for me they were the best choice at the time. It didn’t mean I got defensive and called people “sheep” when people pointed out that they weren’t popular. I knew it and I watched the market for those pistols shrink. Something not being popular doesn’t mean it’s bad, but it doesn’t mean it’s destined for commercial success.
Many experienced shooters carry firearms with more than 5 shots, so I’m not sure that’s proof one way or the other (nor does an appeal to authority get us anywhere).
Carrying a firearm with higher capacity and marksmanship skills aren’t mutually exclusive. But we’ve had this discussion many times and I see no reason to retread that ground.
The double stacks we’re talking about are as thin or thinner than some single stacks. They’re not fat, unless those single stacks are as well. Let’s keep it to the context of this thread, than being the P10M and other options in its size.
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Carl the Floor Walker
Moderator
Trends, fads. They are come and go. God only knows what will be next. Want to keep it to just he new CZ then let us wait for more information. And for me, I will try and actually shoot one first. But to think CZ does not know their business after so many years, is something I will not believe. Each to his own.
If I have an opportunity to shoot one of course I will, but I don’t always get such an opportunity. I like trying new pistols from different manufacturers, that’s why I’ve owned so many.
I own CZs and I like their products. That doesn’t mean I think all of their products have been great commercial successes, even ones I’ve liked. As I myself admitted, time will tell how successful this will be.
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I own CZs and I like their products. That doesn’t mean I think all of their products have been great commercial successes, even ones I’ve liked. As I myself admitted, time will tell how successful this will be.
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