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"New" Colts in 2014?
- Thread starter DealHunter
- Start date
Originally posted by lcpiper
For an actual new Python that is as faithfully remade as the originals were, I'd pay up to $1,500 for one and would be happy that I have my Python and can shoot it too.
Originally posted by lcpiper
I would think modern machining process would cut down on some of the hand fitting requirements and help keep the costs dow
The problem here is that the modern manufacturing processes which could, theoretically, bring the cost of a new Python down are the exact same things that would make such a gun not a "faithful reproduction". Processes like CNC machining, investment casting, and MIM produce more uniform parts that require less hand-fitting and thus keep costs down. However, as this very thread has demonstrated, the very people who such a gun would be marketed to would consider a Python with a cast frame or MIM internals to be an "abomination."
Likewise, as DPris pointed out, the old V-Spring action is going to require a lot of hand fitting regardless of how you make the parts. About the only way to get around this would be to change the action to one that required less hand fitting (Colt actually did just that starting with the Trooper Mark III and continuing with the Trooper Mark V and King Cobra). If you do that, however, what you'll end up with will be a Python in name and appearance only (think a King Cobra with a vent rib barrel and you've got the idea).
If you want an idea of how expensive doing things "the old fashioned way" can be, look at what happened to Dan Wesson's prices after they introduced the Valor, which uses all forged parts. As of right now, CZ's website lists the Dan Wesson RZ-45 Heritage (the closest to their pre-Valor offerings) at a MSRP of $1298 while the Stainless Valor (the lower priced of the two variants) lists for MSRP $1701, an increase of over 23%.
So, if we assume that using only forged parts will cause a price increase of 23% (it would probably be substantially more for a Python since a DA revolver requires more hand fitting than a 1911 does), we can get an idea of how expensive new Python might be by looking at a currently produced top-end revolver. Probably the closest we can get would be the S&W Performance Center 627 which lists for MSRP $1249 and uses MIM internals. Assuming our 23% price increase, that gun would cost a little over $1500 if you simply used all forged internals rather than MIM. Considering that the Colt V-Spring action requires much more hand fitting than just about any other common DA revolver (certainly more than a S&W) and that hand fitting is probably the biggest inflator of costs, I think DPris' estimate of $2K for a new Python made the "old fashioned way" is probably, if anything, a bit low.
I think it'd be closer to $2500 myself.
When I talked to a couple different Colt people in positions to know five or six years ago, they said they thought probably around $1500 per, but with prices everywhere going up as they are....
Most people have no conception of what the costs would be in start up with a Python re-intro, or the volume of sales needed to keep it in production.
Denis
When I talked to a couple different Colt people in positions to know five or six years ago, they said they thought probably around $1500 per, but with prices everywhere going up as they are....
Most people have no conception of what the costs would be in start up with a Python re-intro, or the volume of sales needed to keep it in production.
Denis
Originally posted by DPris
I think it'd be closer to $2500 myself.
When I talked to a couple different Colt people in positions to know five or six years ago, they said they thought probably around $1500 per, but with prices everywhere going up as they are....
Most people have no conception of what the costs would be in start up with a Python re-intro, or the volume of sales needed to keep it in production.
Denis
$2500 is probably where they'd have to sell a "faithful reproduction" and still make a profit after the machinery and training costs have already be recouped. However, given that the Python machinery is gone (my understanding is that it was worn out when production ceased) and most of the Colt employees who knew how to make DA revolvers are retired or deceased, Colt would probably take a loss for a few years even selling Pythons for $2500. Basically, they'd be in the same boat as a company making DA revolvers for the first time. Given what I understand about Colt's finances, I rather doubt that they have the capital to re-develop DA revolvers even if they could eventually make a profit by doing so.
Those among you who think a "Python" that's not a Python would sell obviously do not understand what a Python is or what makes it sell.
It goes far beyond the mere name.
As we continually mention every time this comes up, Colt would have to develop new CNC pathways, new parts vendors, new parts inventory storage & flow systems, hire & train new people to build them, and integrate Python production into existing production equipment (which would slow down availability of Colts already hard to find). The Python would not justify buying new CNC centers just for it.
Initial parts vendor set ups would be a challenge, and the up-front cost of initially ordering enough outsourced parts to get the first production run out the door would be high.
Colt currently has no other model parts in inventory chains, in-house or outsourced, that share commonality with a Python.
Colt hasn't bought new parts to keep old Pythons repaired for quite some time now. There are no parts vendors currently supplying them.
Colt still retains what they call the "patterns" for the Python, but other than that it'd be just the same as starting up an entirely new gun from scratch.
I have no idea what an average salary would be for a new hire to work on Pythons, but assuming $40,000 annually, plus benefits, that'd be at least that much Colt would have to take in in PROFITS from Python sales each year just to pay that one guy's salary alone. That's on top of all the other costs involved, on a gun that would not sell more than a thousand units a year, probably half that.
Just not good business to even try.
Denis
It goes far beyond the mere name.
As we continually mention every time this comes up, Colt would have to develop new CNC pathways, new parts vendors, new parts inventory storage & flow systems, hire & train new people to build them, and integrate Python production into existing production equipment (which would slow down availability of Colts already hard to find). The Python would not justify buying new CNC centers just for it.
Initial parts vendor set ups would be a challenge, and the up-front cost of initially ordering enough outsourced parts to get the first production run out the door would be high.
Colt currently has no other model parts in inventory chains, in-house or outsourced, that share commonality with a Python.
Colt hasn't bought new parts to keep old Pythons repaired for quite some time now. There are no parts vendors currently supplying them.
Colt still retains what they call the "patterns" for the Python, but other than that it'd be just the same as starting up an entirely new gun from scratch.
I have no idea what an average salary would be for a new hire to work on Pythons, but assuming $40,000 annually, plus benefits, that'd be at least that much Colt would have to take in in PROFITS from Python sales each year just to pay that one guy's salary alone. That's on top of all the other costs involved, on a gun that would not sell more than a thousand units a year, probably half that.
Just not good business to even try.
Denis