New Browning 1911/380

SIG's been making plenty of money with their copies of the Star Models DK & BKM, so I guess it was only a matter of time before someone copied the Model S as well. :p

Too bad Star couldn't have stayed in business for a little while longer...
 
Appears to be a single stack 7 + 1 unless I missed something. Not bad.

I think I will stick with my two Beretta 85F's.
 
If they offer a plain GI model like the .22 I'd be more than willing to be a beta tester, not all that interested in the features they added.
 
Their 22 model is nice, I am sure this 380 will be a very nice gun, 380 isnt a bad round, I know a lot of guys say why not just go 9mm, which in a gun this size may make sense, but I carry a p3at and I have never seen a 9 as small as that, also the recoil and snap of a 9mm may be an issue, by them looks of this 1911 recoil shouldnt be an issue...

also 380 can be bought in the 1200fps 300 ft lb neighborhood... hornady 9mm critical defense is slower and is just over 300 ft lbs...
 
I think it's a swell idea and if the price is right they will surely sell like hot cakes. As long as the grip is scaled down considerably as well, it'll be just awesome. I love CCOs for the officer frame and this would be right up my alley. I'll wait it out and let everyone else test it first but I am very intrigued.
 
I've always thought there should be more lower powered but still 'full sized' guns available for people who are smaller and have a hard time with 'normally' sized and chambered guns.

This gun will be welcomed by many females, guys with smaller hands, and anyone else who will appreciate an 85% sized 1911 in 380.

I think this is a really cool idea.
 
I've always thought there should be more lower powered but still 'full sized' guns available for people who are smaller and have a hard time with 'normally' sized and chambered guns.
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There is. It is the Springfield EMP in 9mm. It is a fine shooter.

See the video on the Browning, I am concerned that the weak point of the gun will be the lightweight magazine.

With that said, I am glad to see this offering.
 
shaunpain said:
As long as the grip is scaled down considerably as well, it'll be just awesome.
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The pictures plainly show that the entire gun is scaled down.

Just like a Star Model S. :)
mellow_c said:
I've always thought there should be more lower powered but still 'full sized' guns available for people who are smaller and have a hard time with 'normally' sized and chambered guns. ... It seems fairly obvious from the pictures that the entire gun is scaled down... I think this is a really cool idea.
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So did the designers at Star Bonifacio Echeverria S.A.

In 1940. ;)

I'm sorry, I'm not trying to be hard on y'all, I'm just relishing the irony. :D FWIW the gun appears to not be an exact Star copy, as it appears to have a 1911-style internal extractor and sliding trigger, but it's still pretty darn close. [EDIT TO ADD:] In general, the hallmarks that differentiate Star's 1911-style guns from a Gov't Model are a pinned pivoting trigger, an external extractor, and the absence of an external plunger tube. The Browning clearly lacks the first two, but as far as I can tell, the pictures and videos never show the LH side of the gun clearly enough to positively determine the last one.
 
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Barring the size, I would be very surprised if it shares anything in common with the star. The .22 version is pretty faithful to the 1911, and I see no reason why the .380 wouldn't.
 
Interesting.
When I was young, I carried a mini-1911 380 clone made by Iver Johnson on the Star design. It was a great, easy carrying pistol.

I've been getting into the 380 again myself, with the purchase last year of a used Beretta 84F. While I have other SD options, I've really been liking the Beretta, with it's 14rds, it's accuracy, and it's reliability.
 
See the video on the Browning, I am concerned that the weak point of the gun will be the lightweight magazine.
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I think the weak point will turn out to be the "aluminum-reinforced polymer" frame. But ... I'm an olde pharte, and I don't trust plastics (polymers). I also don't like the magazine safety.

Down south of the border (and then some), Imbel has been selling a CCO size 1911 in .380 Auto for many years, with both single stack and double stack version. Unfortunately, they have never been imported into the U.S. Several years ago I tried to persuade Springfield Armory to add them to the lineup but they weren't interested.

http://www.imbel.gov.br/index.php/produtos/pistolas

380MD1N.png


On this new Browning, I also wonder if the barrel will be linked down using a swinging link, like a "real" 1911. I have a suspicion that this new gun uses a cam slot, like the Hi-Power and like the Colt Mustang and Pony.

MSRP is supposed to be $670. Not horrible, but too high IMHO. But I also think the price on their 1911-22 is obscene.
 
G&A has put a story about the 1911-380 on their website.

http://www.gunsandammo.com/first-look/first-look-browning-1911-380-2/#ixzz3L4G96iLF

There IS a plunger tube on the LH side. :)

The G&A article says that the frame is some sort of secret composite. However, the 1911-380 apparently designed to take separate grip panels, and the same ones as the 1911-22.
G&A said:
The frame is an engineering-grade composite that makes this pistol super light, almost as light as it’s .22-caliber cousin... The Black Label model came wearing a set of black composite grip panels. Want to make it your own? Several accessory grips are available... The same grips offered for the 1911-22 will fit the 1911-380 so don’t pass on a set that you fancy because it might be labeled “1911-22.”
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And to address Aguila's suspicion...
Aguila Blanca said:
...I also wonder if the barrel will be linked down using a swinging link, like a "real" 1911. I have a suspicion that this new gun uses a cam slot, like the Hi-Power and like the Colt Mustang and Pony.
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Ding ding ding we have a winner! :D

From the G&A article, we have a picture of a BHP-style cam slot.

http://www.gunsandammo.com/wp-conte...ook-browning-1911-380/browning_1911_380_8.jpg

Also, the guide rod appears to be polymer, and is (thankfully IMHO) NOT full-length.

(BTW Aguila, thanks for posting the info about the Imbel; I had a vague recollection that some European or South American company was currently making a gun similar to this, but I couldn't remember who or where.)
 
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carguychris said:
(BTW Aguila, thanks for posting the info about the Imbel; I had a vague recollection that some European or South American company was currently making a gun similar to this, but I couldn't remember who or where.)
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The Imbel isn't much like this. It isn't scaled-down, and it isn't polymer. It's a true CCO-size 1911-ish pistol, with a 4-1/4" barrel. Dimensions of the single stack version are identical to a Colt CCO.

It's all steel, and because of the mass of the slide it doesn't need to be locked breech for .380. So it's straight blowback, and the underlug of the barrel is deeper and solid, so the barrel is fixed in place by the slide stop -- like most of the .22 1911 conversions.

If I had any money, I'd contact a U.S. custom import FFL and try to buy one. I'd love to be the only kid on the block to have one.

A friend in Brazil owns one, and he sent me a bunch of photos. Let's see if I can figure out how to post a few.
 

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Fellows, we got a bit side tracked comparing a true 1911 style 380 to the Star Model S. There is little that is engineered the same although the 380 uses the link lockup. Now the Spanish Llama (means Flame) was an most true scaled down 1911 mainly with the exception of the extractor. I am quite sure the new Browing will use modern internals when it comes to the FCG and lockup. The Llamas from the fourties, fifties and sixties were pretty neat little pistols, then they grew a rib on the slide and for some years the QC was lacking...then into the late eighties and nineties they bounced back before dying shortly thereafter. The Sig 238/938, FI model D, Colt Mjustang, Iver Johnson Pony are all spin offs of the import banned in 1968 Star DK. I use some extra Mustang Mag's in my P238 and the 238 Mag's will work in my Star DK's (at least some are interchangable). Having been given a M&P Compact .22 recently and realizing a modern engineered and scaled down .22 is neat I will be anxious to see/shoot the Browning, and if I put my 1952 era Llama .22 lr next to the browning and step back a few feet it will be difficult to choose the differences.
 
Looks interesting, but I'd rather have the .22LR version if I am going to spend the money. I'll keep my Llama IIIa though. :)

 
I have nothing against the 380 for those that want to carry one.
I think they would have been better served to have scaled down this pistol to Springfield EMP size or at least a Officer size gun, not a full size 1911 380.

Best Regards
Bob Hunter
www.huntercustoms.com
 
Hunter Customs said:
I have nothing against the 380 for those that want to carry one.
I think they would have been better served to have scaled down this pistol to Springfield EMP size or at least a Officer size gun, not a full size 1911 380.
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I was thinking the same thing. In fact, the grip portion of the receiver, by virtue of being scaled down by 15 percent, may actually be very close to the side of the Springfield EMP grip dimensions. I think the overall length of the Browning is still longer than the EMP, but we can always hope that if the .380 Browning takes off they may come out with a scaled down Commander version. That would probably be very close in dimension to a Colt Government 380.

I still don't get excited about a polymer receiver, though. If they didn't want to use steel, they should have just use al-yu-minium.
 
Why?


I don't see a market for it.


Brownings marketing department seems to think women can't handle a real 1911 in 9mm/.38super/45ACP, While lightweight blowback pistols tend to have more felt recoil than browning style lookups.


I also think there will ultimately be more differences than similarities to a real 1911 once we have all details.
 
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