New Army Handgun: We're Really Doing This

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The police agencies don't drag their weapons through sand, mud, sleet, snow, muck, dirt, etc. Plus, they change weapons more often. The Army has had basically two main pistols since 1911. Glock could very well do fine. But, I think more issues would be exposed in the military, just by the sheer numbers they would have and the conditions upon which they are in.
 
Do you have any info on comparative failure rates of the Glock vs M9 or M11 when exposed to the environmental hazards you pose?

I don't think our M9s have had much snow exposure lately.
 
Glock 19 pistols were bought for the Iraqis to see how they leaked from the indigenous forces into the black market for weapons there, not because of any perceived performance advantages.
 
We bought a lot of Glock 19s for range and duty use about 14-15 years ago. The range guns are worn out, the duty guns almost so. Nothing against the platform, but nothing lasts forever, and nothing is perfect. The price point keeps us running back. :D
 
Navistar said:
herdman - Nothing against Glock, but the SF guys are the best of the best and have countless hours of training and that specialty. This about a general issue weapon that fits a broad range of uses. I am not sure Glock is the best overall choice for a general issue weapon. SF guys also use the Beretta on many occasions.

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They do carry the Beretta when in uniform (which he claims to hate), but when they need concealment and wear civilian clothes to blend in, they carry Glocks. Just food for thought.
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I know a few SF guys. And they used Glock 21's.
 
The new Glock 21 SF would be perfect for the .mil

If it were tan colored like the new Colt M45 CQB 1911, and came with night sights standard, it would be untouchable for a new duty handgun. Devastating stopping power vs. 9mm, almost the same mag cap, just as accurate, and even lighter than the M9.
 
Model12Win said:
The new Glock 21 SF would be perfect for the .mil

If it were tan colored like the new Colt M45 CQB 1911, and came with night sights standard, it would be untouchable for a new duty handgun. Devastating stopping power vs. 9mm, almost the same mag cap, just as accurate, and even lighter than the M9.
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I think "devastating" is a bit of a stretch.
 
I would say that the G21 is a very good pistol, and comfortable for me. However my glove size is XXL. It might be unusable for someone with small hands.
 
Well, if the Army was to poll us, they'd wind up having to buy M-45s, Glocks, M-11s, and at least one Model 13 for my First Sergeant who grumbles constantly that he carries a "real fighting gun" in his day job.
 
The police agencies don't drag their weapons through sand, mud, sleet, snow, muck, dirt, etc. Plus, they change weapons more often. The Army has had basically two main pistols since 1911. Glock could very well do fine. But, I think more issues would be exposed in the military, just by the sheer numbers they would have and the conditions upon which they are in.
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Good point. Many countries use Glocks. What's not readily apparent is whether they chose it because it was the best or whether it was the cheapest.

2 environments that are hard on firearms are extreme cold and sandy conditions.
Per the Wikipedia page, Canada, Denmark, The UK, Sweden, Norway, Iceland, Finland, and Greenland all use Glocks. Also Pakistan, Jordan, Israel and Yemen use them.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glock
 
Austria is not included in that list of countries? Odd, that.

I wonder if Austria went to the Steyr pistol instead. Which can be had with a manual safety, by the way.

Bart Noir
 
if i was in the Army and tasked with picking a new pistol, i'd also attend some IDPA matches and see what folks who spent their own money are shooting. not factory sponsored shooters, but just average folks. military is also made up of just average folks who get trained. wouldn't be a deciding factor, but would be some useful input into how various guns perform on the range in the hands of people shooting for accuracy under time pressures.
 
1-DAB said:
if i was in the Army and tasked with picking a new pistol, i'd also attend some IDPA matches and see what folks who spent their own money are shooting. not factory sponsored shooters, but just average folks. military is also made up of just average folks who get trained. wouldn't be a deciding factor, but would be some useful input into how various guns perform on the range in the hands of people shooting for accuracy under time pressures.
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The people at those matches have far more trigger time on pistols than the average soldier will ever dream of having, if they use one more than once anyway.
 
anyway, i'm going to guess that most average IDPA shooters, who enjoy it as a hobby, not their profession, have not gone to extensive shooting seminars/camps/multi-day training. they are largely self taught, learning as they go. you can buy a fine pistol for under $800, and a case (1000 rounds) of 9mm for under $250. that will buy you lots of trigger time. eye and ear protection and a holster (under $50) and a mag carrier (under $50 again) and you are good to go. you won't win on day 1, but you'll have fun and learn stuff.
 
1-DAB said:
anyway, i'm going to guess that most average IDPA shooters, who enjoy it as a hobby, not their profession, have not gone to extensive shooting seminars/camps/multi-day training. they are largely self taught, learning as they go. you can buy a fine pistol for under $800, and a case (1000 rounds) of 9mm for under $250. that will buy you lots of trigger time. eye and ear protection and a holster (under $50) and a mag carrier (under $50 again) and you are good to go. you won't win on day 1, but you'll have fun and learn stuff.
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You missed my point. The military will want more safety mechanisms than the typical Glock being run at IDPA, not to mention the ones with 3.5 lb. connectors or other trigger mods (yes I know not all have these). If they were to go striker fired I can almost guarantee it would have a manual safety. Simply put the average civilian has more faith in his/her skill than the military has in the average shooter.
 
time for a little more training and discipline then.

i was shooting my VP9 yesterday, 5.4lb trigger per specs, bone stock. only went 'bang' when i wanted it to go bang. striker fired like a Glock, fully ambidexiterous, 15+1 (same as 92f), interchangeable grips (27 different combinations, lightweight. no safety to remember to flick on or off under pressure. something like that would be a very good fighting pistol. point and shoot. if you trust your soldiers to obey orders, then trust them to handle a pistol properly.
 
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