I'm having Jeff Walker put together a new 6.5 Creedmore rifle for me using a Savage action I already own. I will be using a Criterion prefit barrel as he suggested. I have two questions for the brain trust who have experience with the Creedmore. What contour and twist should I choose? I have not decided between the heavy varmint and the bull or the 7.5 or 8 twist. Just looking for suggestions. I will mainly use the rifle for punching paper, with a possible use for coyotes and other varmints at longer range.
New 6.5 Creedmore
- Thread starter ronl
- Start date
How much carrying do you plan on doing with the rifle? If you don't plan on carrying it much then it doesn't matter what contour barrel you use. If you are going to hike around to different places to make stands to coyote call I'd order a Savage factory magnum contour barrel over a varmint or bull barrel. I'd probably cut the barrel down to 20" as well if you go heavier than the magnum barrel just to save weight.
So what work is Mr Walker doing to your Savage besides a barrel swap? The only reason I ask is there is no way I'd pay a gunsmith to do a barrel swap on a Savage action, when a wrench cost $30 and I can rent headspace gauges for another $10. Last barrel I had a gunsmith set the headspace he charged me $25 which was a 1/2 hour of Shop rate.
So what work is Mr Walker doing to your Savage besides a barrel swap? The only reason I ask is there is no way I'd pay a gunsmith to do a barrel swap on a Savage action, when a wrench cost $30 and I can rent headspace gauges for another $10. Last barrel I had a gunsmith set the headspace he charged me $25 which was a 1/2 hour of Shop rate.
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I had the same debate about this time last year as I was building my 6.5 Creedmoor, also on a Savage Action.
I ended up going with a 7.5 twist. I figured why not get the faster twist as I had no intention of using anything less than a 140 grain bullet. Sure 1:8 is standard and will stabilize the 140 gr bullets, but the extra half inch of twist wasn't going to hurt anything. In theory I guess it would cause a tiny bit of extra lateral movement of the bullet at extreme ranges, but I don't shoot beyond 1,000 yards.
As for barrel contour, that is your call. If you are going to be hiking with it on the way to the occasional varmint hunt, I would lean towards a thinner profile. But what do I know, I went with a 1" bull barrel that is 26" long...
FWIW, I also used a Criterion barrel on mine. Could not be happier. I use mine for varmint matches at my club, and took 1st place in the class all three matches I shot it at. It has no business being as accurate as it is for what they charge for a barrel.
Edit to add: The other response came in while I was typing, and I agree. New barrels on Savages are a piece of cake, that is the beauty of the barrel nut system. Look into trying it yourself next time.
I ended up going with a 7.5 twist. I figured why not get the faster twist as I had no intention of using anything less than a 140 grain bullet. Sure 1:8 is standard and will stabilize the 140 gr bullets, but the extra half inch of twist wasn't going to hurt anything. In theory I guess it would cause a tiny bit of extra lateral movement of the bullet at extreme ranges, but I don't shoot beyond 1,000 yards.
As for barrel contour, that is your call. If you are going to be hiking with it on the way to the occasional varmint hunt, I would lean towards a thinner profile. But what do I know, I went with a 1" bull barrel that is 26" long...
FWIW, I also used a Criterion barrel on mine. Could not be happier. I use mine for varmint matches at my club, and took 1st place in the class all three matches I shot it at. It has no business being as accurate as it is for what they charge for a barrel.
Edit to add: The other response came in while I was typing, and I agree. New barrels on Savages are a piece of cake, that is the beauty of the barrel nut system. Look into trying it yourself next time.
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He will be truing up the receiver as necessary and changing out and fitting the bolt head. The donor action is a LE 10 in .223., which necessitates the bolt head change. The barrel change is easy, but I'm just not comfortable fitting the new bolt head out. I know it's a floating bolt head, but I simply know that if Jeff does it, it will be done with maximum precision.
What exactly does this mean? Just sayin'...
The word "truing" gets thrown around a lot (kind of like "tactical") and means different things- to different people.
Sounds like all he's doing is truing the receiver face, since he's recommended a CBI barrel.
CBI makes a great barrel- no doubt. But, by using a factory prefit he's not able to actually true the action- which would involve re-cutting oversize threads perpendicular to the bolt raceway. Without doing this, anything else beyond lug lapping (and even that to a point) is useless as nothing is guaranteed to be concentric to the bore.
I realize it would cost more- but did he offer/suggest eliminating the barrel nut, and really truing the action? This would by definition eliminate a prefit- the receiver threads would be cut oversize (1-1/16-20 + .010 for Savage), and a blank would need to be threaded to fit, as well as an oversize recoil lug...
Just be sure you understand what he's really going to do- and what you're paying for- before you say you have a "trued" action.
reynolds357
New member
Ronl, that receiver work is a pure waste of time on a Savage due to the floating bolt head.
Ronl, sorry I didn't mean to start something here. If you're happy with what your gunsmith is telling you then by all means use him. A bolt head swap is nothing to fear on a Savage either, it's really simple as well. You just have to be mindful of the small parts when putting the extractor and ejector together.
You surely didn't start something. I just don't feel I can do as good a job as Jeff can. If it were an AR or an AK rifle I'd have no problem doing any of the necessary work, but I just feel better having the work done by a world class smith simply because he knows more about it than I do. I do not have the expertise. Granted I could probably do it myself, but I simply do not know as much as the smith does. I can pretty well be assured that when Mr. Walker finishes with the rifle, it will easily shoot under 1/2 MOA. His attention to the smallest detail is something I admire and personally cannot duplicate. I'd simply rather pay him the $150 or so odd dollars in labor just to make sure the job is done perfectly, rather than rely on myself with my lack of knowledge.
johnwilliamson062
Moderator
Sometimes people don't want to spend an hour or three in the workshop messing with things. Ronl would also want a bench with vise, some additional hand tools, etc. These small easy jobs get expensive quick if you don't already have a garage full of tools.
johnwilliamson062 said:
My first Savage rebarrel was done with a piece of leather, pipe wrench, and a barrel nut wrench. I used the pipe wrench and leather to hold the action at the recoil lug, it worked great and I didn't screw the action up at all. The right tools for the job make it nice and I've invested in a bunch, but there are more ways to improvise solutions if you don't just see the problem.
Plus ronl said he has experience building AR and AK rifles, so I'm sure he has many of the tools already needed in his tool box.
Can't go wrong for a few bucks... I'm sure it'll be a great shooter.
The first long-range rifle I put togetherfor my older son has a CBI in .260 Match that he was ringing the (24") gong with regularity at 1K last weekend.
There are trued barrel nuts and trued oversize lugs available from several sources that are always worth including for the few dollars they cost IMO- but like everything else, I'm sure that's a debatable point
. Your smith will do what he thinks is best- he's the one on the hook.
Good luck with the rifle. What are you stocking it in?
The first long-range rifle I put togetherfor my older son has a CBI in .260 Match that he was ringing the (24") gong with regularity at 1K last weekend.
There are trued barrel nuts and trued oversize lugs available from several sources that are always worth including for the few dollars they cost IMO- but like everything else, I'm sure that's a debatable point
. Your smith will do what he thinks is best- he's the one on the hook.Good luck with the rifle. What are you stocking it in?
Okay, I chose to go in another direction. I found out the wait was going to be from 6-12 months to get the work done. Bought a Savage 12 LRP 6.5CM. HS precision stock and target accu-trigger 26" barrel 1/8 twist. Also picked up some RCBS Comp dies, Hornady brass, a box of Hornady 140 gr. ELD, a box of Winchester Match ammo, Nightforce steel 20 MOA base, and a pound of RL-17. It all cost me a tiny bit north of $1200 for everything. Put a Vortex Viper PST 6-24x50 FFP scope in TPS rings on top of it all. A good cleaning and I will be out there tomorrow afternoon. I am a happy camper at this point. Here comes the fun getting a good load together.
You're all set...the LRP's are stupid accurate for the coin, and fantastic choice on the optic (I shoot known distance targets though so prefer SFP).
Good luck with the load workup, popular rifle so there's gotta be some good info to be had online.
6-12 months for a barrel swap huh? I saw on his website that it's not his full-time profession, which is kinda surprising if he's got that big a backlog.
Good luck with the load workup, popular rifle so there's gotta be some good info to be had online.
6-12 months for a barrel swap huh? I saw on his website that it's not his full-time profession, which is kinda surprising if he's got that big a backlog.
Made some mods to my set-up. The TPS rings were a bit too tall so I swapped them out for some low Badger rings and it worked out well. The trigger tested out at 8oz., which is too light for me, but I took it out as is. I had a box of Win. Match and American Eagle match. The 100yd. accuracy was rather disappointing. It shot maybe an inch at best. Part of it was getting adjusted to the trigger. Honestly it seemed to get better the farther out I went. Shooting at a steel silhouette at 200 I called a heart shot just to get a feel for the drop, which I am not familiar with. Low a few inches. Adjusted the elevation and hit the spot. Took 2 head shots which were maybe an inch apart. Switched to a 6" steel plate at 523yds. First shot was high. Made adjustment and hit the steel just below center. Next two shots were 1-1/2 inches below just about in the same hole. Then the wind started to pick up pretty well, so I just called it a day. I only had 5 rounds left anyway. Was pretty disappointed when I brought it home and started to clean it up well. It looked as though it had enough copper in it to make another bullet. I tried three different bore cleaners and must have brushed the bore 100 or more times. There's still copper in the bore, so I took a look with a borelight down the barrel. There are fine milling marks inside the barrel, and when I say milling marks I mean it looks as if they were going to thread a bolt in there. Granted, they were very fine marks, but I can't imagine such is conducive to accuracy. I had hand lapped the bore 45 times with US bore paste then cleaned the barrel with Montana extreme prior to shooting. The marks make getting the copper out pretty difficult. I tried Montana Extreme, Hoppes Elite, and Butch's Bore shine. I'm maybe half way to getting the copper out. I hate thinking about using Sweet's on a new barrel, but I may have to. I've seen some rather ratty looking barrels shoot very well, but I've never seen a condition such as this. I'll put together some loads and see if I can get it to settle down, but I'm considering calling Savage to hear what they have to say. What's your opinion? Like to hear what you have to say.
603Country
New member
It's a savage barrel. Get some Boretech Eliminator. That'll get the copper out. Throw away the Sweets.
Honestly, I think you made a mistake "messing" with it.
If the barrel was defective (the LRP's have a great reputation- but I have heard of a bad barrel or two getting through, as can/does happen with everyone)- you should have contacted Savage before you lapped the bore.
This is NOT something you can (nor should you try) to "fix"- not going to happen.
Contact Savage CS, tell them the problem (don't tell them you lapped the bore), and send the rifle back for replacement/repair.
If the barrel was defective (the LRP's have a great reputation- but I have heard of a bad barrel or two getting through, as can/does happen with everyone)- you should have contacted Savage before you lapped the bore.
This is NOT something you can (nor should you try) to "fix"- not going to happen.
Contact Savage CS, tell them the problem (don't tell them you lapped the bore), and send the rifle back for replacement/repair.