New 1/4 bore

N

NHSHOOTER

New member
I was left a 25-06 ruger model 77 by my brother who always said what a shooter it was, well, he was right. I used it this last season and killed 2 whitetails with it, both 1 shot, 1 DRT the other ran about 20 yds, I am very impressed with this rifle but it is a bit heavy so I did some searching and found a used Win model 70 ultimate shadow (lightly used) with a scope for decent money. Took it home from the LGS measured the chamber with my Hornady OLG and found it to be quite a bit shorter than the Ruger. Well, loaded up some ammo in a few different bullet weights and will head out later today to do some test groups..
I will return with results tomorrow, "lets all hold our breaths"..:D My Ruger shoots 3/4 in groups at 100 yds with 117gr hornady sst's...we shall see what the model 70 does..
 
...measured the chamber with my Hornady OLG and found it to be quite a bit shorter than the Ruger.
Click to expand...

So?? Not sure what you mean by this....

Leads me to think...

A) your comparator is crap
B) your measuring technique is crap
C) the rifles are simply different...

Do they chamber factory ammo without issues??
Do they chamber fully resized brass without issues??

If so, what is the issue???
 
I guess I wasnt clear in my post, there isnt a issue at all just a observation, I have never owned a model 70 before but I have a few ruger 77s Remingtons and weatherby vanguards, especially the vanguards have what seem to be long chambers, I have just not had 1 as short at the winchester, I loaded some ammo for the winchester and with a jump of just .030 to the lands the bullets were seated just above the cannulure, the groups were ok, about 1.5" at 100 yds. I didnt have any factory ammo but it chambered my resized ammo just fine, all in all I am very happy with my new 70..
Old Yesterday, 01:59 PM #5
GeauxTide measurement on the ruger to the base to ogive with a 117 sst is 2.770 in comparison the model 70 base to ogive with the 117 sst is 2.720
 
I've found the OAL is much more consistent. Put the bullet in the case and measure where it stops. Then, you can seat it precisely off the lands.
 
According to my buddy SAAMI there is only about .010" (about 3 pieces of standard loose leaf paper) between Min. and Max. headspace on a good chamber so the OP is likely talking about throat/freebore as @stagpanther stated.
 
Based on the additional information he gave in post#6, he is talking about the barrel throat and the freebore distance, not the chamber.

Do be aware that, unless the maker gives you a written guarantee, it is entirely possible (for generations very likely) that a big game rifle wouldn't shoot MOA or less. Many of us spent lots of effort tweaking loads and the guns to try and get there, sometimes you could, often not, as big game rifles simply weren't built with that in mind. 1.5" is plenty accurate for deer and other big game hunting.

It is possible you can find a load and seating combination for your Winchester that will do better than 1.5" groups. Its also possible you won't.

here's one thing to use in your search, load a few rounds to the cannelure, as a baseline. See if they shoot as well, better, or worse as rounds loaded to ".xxx" off the lands.

Every rifle barrel has the potential to be different in what it shoots best. There is no one "load to this and it will be the most accurate" for every barrel. Might be the most accurate in the barrel you have, might not be. Sometimes barrels will shoot their best with loads that based on other people's experiences with their rifles, aren't "right" and "shouldn't shoot that well". But in a barrel that likes them, they are "right" and do shoot well.

The only way to know what your barrel will shoot best with is to shoot it and see.

Good luck in your search, I hope you can get what you're looking for, but if the rifle's purpose it deer hunting, you're already at an acceptable accuracy level.
 
I want to thank you for correcting me, your right, I am talking about barrel throat and freebore distance. Although I was using the wrong terminology I do pretty well getting even my deer rifles to shoot moa or better. 44AMP, when I take a used rifle out on its first outing and I get a 1.5 in group at 100 I know the rifle has much more potential to shoot better because I will fine tune my loads for that rifle. I do like that idea of loading to the cannelure and go from there. Again, I want to thank everyone for your input, this forum has been a great help since I joined many years ago..
 
Rugers are notorious for long throats. That is one of the ways Ruger tried to keep handloaders from blowing up their rifles. Unfortunately it also gave Rugers a terrible reputation for poor accuracy, probably one of the biggest hurdles a rifle maker has to overcome. People used to come to us begging us to fix their rifles becasue they didn't shoot worth a damn. Ease peasy, just set the barrel back two turns, rechamber, out the door. Happy customer. Winchester, Savage and Remingtons always marketed their rifles on accuracy, so their chambers are tight with short leades in the throat.
 
As @44 AMP has mentioned on a thread in the Handloading section, your base to ogive measurement is to A point on the ogive. The ogive being the entire section of the bullet from the shank to the point.
Hence your base to ogive measurement means jack to the rest of us.

In talking with guys that make custom match bullets, the ogive is the hardest part of the bullet to form, and form consistently.

Might be somewhat better with automated machinery, but after how many thousands do the measurements start to wonder?

Congrats on the new to you rifles!

Just be aware that they are individual rifles. Like we are all individuals.
Each one can like/behave differently.
 
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