Negligent discharge - revolver vs. semi auto

G

groverdill

New member
For no reason at all today, I started wondering which type of handgun is more prone to be involved in a negligent discharge. My gut instinct tells me semi autos would be more likely, due to the shorter and lighter trigger pull, as well as not being as easy to check if it's loaded as a revolver is to some folks (myself included:D). My quick Google search for such a statistic came up empty. Does any type of data exist for this subject? Opinions welcome.

Mike
 
Depends on the gun specifically, and how the person is handling it. There are semi-automatics that are single action and will only trigger if the hammer is already cocked.

However, there are many revolvers out there that don't have a safety for a hammer that's fully cocked.
 
Your basic premise (that the type of gun is a significant contributor to the problem) is a little off target.

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=114287

As the poll above shows, over half of unintentional discharges happen when the person holding the gun INTENTIONALLY pulls the trigger thinking that the gun won't go off. That means that more than half the time the problem has nothing at all to do with the gun and everything to do with the person holding the gun.

Another 20% or so happen when the person pulls the trigger without really meaning to, but this is a clear violation of the "finger off the trigger" rule. Again, the problem is with the person, not the gun.
 
I had one ND in my life, a few years ago when I got my first revolver, I couldn't keep my grubby hands off of it. I think it's because the mechanics were interesting and felt good compared to other guns. anyways, I would always pull the hammer back and slowly let it ride back down after pulling the trigger. whatever, I was really dumb, I never had any firearms growing up and just didn't take the too seriously. anyways, I was doing it and my thumb slipped off the hammer and pow. I was sitting on the couch and gun was pointed at arm of the couch with my leather jacket folded over it. the .38spl +p entered the fold of the leather three times and stopped in the sleeve, undeformed. I have since never touched my triggers again, period, unless shooting/working on gun, and switched to stouter ammo

so I agree with above, it has nothing to do with the gun and everything to do with the stupidity of the user. if you pulling the trigger intentionally, like 99% of "ND's", then it doesn't matter how heavy/light it is.
 
There have been plenty of NDs involving revolvers witrh a spike on the hammer and idiots not putting the hammer down on an empty chamber.
 
I would think the auto would be more prone to mishandling. I have had 2 ADs in my life and both were with semi auto pistols. One was a mechanical glitch causing a discharge and the other my own utter stupidity. No injuries as I did know enough to keep the muzzle in a safe direction.
 
I think there are more nds with the "safest" guns.
This would be because the people around them assume the gun is so safe that they cannot have an accident with it, get too complacent, and well................

Also, if you mess with guns long enough, you will.have an ND. It's not a matter of if, but when. Everybody gets complacent to some extent, it's human nature. It is a constant battle to stay vigilant.
So, remember that other rule, never point your gun at anything you are not willing to destroy.
When your ND finally comes, hopefully no one will be hurt.
 
Single action revolvers used to be the worst when dropped with one in the hole. Double actions of modern design don't have that issue and one can see the rounds in its cylinder without doing anything to it. Semi auto generally requires one to manipulate it and.look down it in order to render it safe. When people do not do this, and then violate rule #2 (can't remember the order exact, #1 for me is don't point it at anything that's not about to be shot) then you have ND. Obviously the biggest reason for ND is the person, not the style of gun but perhaps a person's unfamiliarity with a certain style could contribute to the risk rather than the style itself.
 
On my soapbox:

The term "Negligent" discharge is way over used in my opinion. If a gun is fired it is either intentional or accidental. In some cases those accidents are caused by negligent behavior, but most are not.

Negligence definition from www.yahoo.com

Failure to use the degree of care appropriate to the circumstances, resulting in an unintended injury to another.
Click to expand...

You can have an AD, but if you are still using precautions so that there is no injury or damage you are not negligent. Even if there is an injury it is hard to prove negligence in court.

That is different from responsibility. We are responsible for anything that happens because of an unintentional or intentional discharge of a gun. But to claim negligence takes it to another level that would most likely involve criminal charges.
 
I (and evidently many others as evident by choice of revolvers for carry guns), think that your gut instinct is correct. However, when it comes to revolvers, they need be separated into two types: Single actions and double-actions. I believe that many N.D.'s with D.A. revolvers is the result of the people who handle double-actions, use them as a single action. Cocking and especially un-cocking a double-action revolver is awkward due to the "hump" on the grip of the double-action.
 
I carried a revolver for years never had an issue. About a week after switching back to a semi auto, I had an ND; thankful no one was hurt but a piece of drywall. It had nothing to do with the gun and everything to do with laziness and stupidity.
 
You can tell if a revolver is loaded just by looking at it. Semi-autos you have to rack the slide enough to look inside the chamber.
 
I have handled guns of all types for over sixty years and never had a negligent, or accidental, discharge. My safety record is due primarily to the fact that I learned the operating mechanisims of nearly all firearms at an early age, that is, how to open and inspect each type of action for the presence of ammunition. This has avoided any unpleasantness on two occassions that I recall when I was handed an "unloaded" gun.

This has been my practice, to clear any gun that is handed to me, no matter how experienced the owner. The only legitimate accidental firing is the case in which an auto may have been dropped on its muzzle and inertia caused the firing pin to impact the primer. These pistols are older and the problem has been addressed and corrected, but the older guns remain in use.

As to broken parts or malfunctioning of parts, periodic checks of the mechanism should be done to insure the gun is truly safe. The term "negligent discharge" is truly apt, as someone has neglected to follow the basic rules of firearms safety.

Bob Wright
 
tallball said:

You can tell if a revolver is loaded just by looking at it. Semi-autos you have to rack the slide enough to look inside the chamber
Click to expand...
.

Not a good habit for revolvers. Many sixshooters have recessed chambers so loaded rounds may not be visible. Open that gun first, or rotate the cylinder past the open loading gate.

Bob Wright
 
Not a good habit for revolvers. Many sixshooters have recessed chambers so loaded rounds may not be visible. Open that gun first, or rotate the cylinder past the open loading gate.

Bob Wright
Click to expand...
Maybe they are referring to tilting the gun towards their face so they can see the bullet-end of the cartridges in the cylinder? LOL.
 
The term "Negligent" discharge is way over used in my opinion. If a gun is fired it is either intentional or accidental. In some cases those accidents are caused by negligent behavior, but most are not.
I have to disagree here. Foolishly pulling the trigger without intending for it to fire not deliberately rendering it so it will not fire is no accident. It is foolishness. In legaleze it's called negligence.
 
On my soapbox:

The term "Negligent" discharge is way over used in my opinion. If a gun is fired it is either intentional or accidental. In some cases those accidents are caused by negligent behavior, but most are not.
Click to expand...

You're right. If the shooter did not intend the weapon to fire and it does, it is an accidental discharge (still usually preventable and careless). If the shooter deliberately fires a weapon missing the intended target hazarding a third party or property, it is negligence. This is why some law enforcement qualification courses now give an automatic fail if a round misses the target.

On point of the thread, I have seen many more ADs from auto loaders. Dispite their training, some officers got into the bad habit of putting their finger on the trigger coming out of the holster. The old retention holsters prevented the cylinder from turning so the revolver would not fire even with pretty heavy pull on the trigger. This happens when they do not work the holster correctly. But with a semi, the same amount of pressure on a not fully released retention holster would result in the gun firing. That is part of the reason why you will not see any retention holsters made in the last couple of decades that have an open trigger.
 
There are many auto loaders that indicate if it's loaded, without racking the slide.
Like my Beretta 92FS. The extractor is sticking out, one can fill it. Also the top of it is colored red.
On my 1911, there is a slot on top of chamber to look inside. One can see the cartridge in there.
Some guns have loaded chamber indicator.
 
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However, there are many revolvers out there that don't have a safety for a hammer that's fully cocked.
Click to expand...

The only revolver I ever heard of that DID have a safety lever is the very short lived High Standard Crusader.

Failure to use the degree of care appropriate to the circumstances, resulting in an unintended injury to another.
Click to expand...

I find this rather interesting. A quick check of the Second College Edition of the American Heritage Dictionary (1982 -an actual book) lists 3 definitions, and NONE of them refer to any results of the negligent act.

In their definitions, there is NO requirement for anything to be harmed in order for an act (or failure to act) to be negligent. Apparently, Yahoo thinks differently?

The presence of a mechanical safety does NOT prevent a negligent discharge. EVER. In some cases, the safety can actually contribute to a negligent discharge.

Do not fall into the trap of thinking that "negligent discharge" is equal to "accidential discharge". While there is a lot of overlap, they are not exactly the same thing. Accidents can happen without being the direct result of negligence. Likewise, negligence does not always result in an accident, although it often does.

The OP's question is essentially meaningless, because it is the PERSON, not the gun that causes negligent discharges. But if you must choose a gun type, as most likely, then I would vote for the semi auto, only because there are more things in the operation of a semi to be negligent about.
 
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