Negligent discharge into the berm - lessons learned

Regardless whether it's AD or ND, there are two major observations I see that should be the focus of Dakota's thread here (unless, you disagree, Dakota. After all, it's your thread).

1. An unfortunate discharge took place(Hmm....UD....I like that). The OP provided valuable information in hopes of others won't have to learn via School of Hard Knocks.

2. Providing said information took humility and guts. I tip my hat to you, Dakota.

manta49 said:
I would disagree with that statement sounds like a excuse.
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No, it's called being a human being. We are all fallible. Laws of probability play into it as well.
 
Sevens-I don't avoid responsibility for my mistakes. If I screw up I will own it. But I don't want to inadvertently admit fault when it may not be my mistake. If one in in the habit of saying ND and one uses that term in front of a cop or opposing lawyer one is toast from a legal standpoint.
 
I had a similar issue once and I have to ask: How do you kno it went into the berm?

In my situation I was also firing a borrowed pistol that I believe had some trigger work done on it. In my case I pulled the trigger and the gun did not fire. The trigger also failed to reset. After waiting for a hangfire I Kept the gun pointed toward the berm and craned my neck around to look at the ejection port/trigger. The trigger was still sort of hanging loose. At this point the gun discharged. I am not sure, but it is likely I touched the trigger. I really can't remember. The gun was pointed toward the berm and I was quite close, but my eyes were nowhere close to the sights, so I am unsure where it ended up. Probably in the berm and those I was shooting with agreed, but, with my head craned around to the side of the pistol, I can't be sure.
Last I shot that pistol for sure. Now if anything odd happens I make sure I hold the pistol on target for a minute to check for a hang-fire, then carefully unload with the pistol remaining on target until the gun is fully unloaded. At that point can crane my head around the side and inspect what is going on and manipulate it while pointed in a safe direction(the berm) or pack it up and take it home.
 
Originally Posted by manta49
I would disagree with that statement sounds like a excuse.
No, it's called being a human being. We are all fallible. Laws of probability play into it as well
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No there are no excuses for N/Ds and they are not inevitable. Would you start training someone to shoot with a statement like below, if so I would pick another trainer. I have being around firearms for forty years and have not had an N/D could I have yes, that doesn't mean I will have.
They say if you shoot long enough and are around guns long enough, you will have a negligent discharge
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If you are around guns long enough, and are xxx a human being who is not perfect xxx you will have a UD
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FTFY.

Negligence and recklessness are beyond the pale. Building poor habits (such as the habit of saying to oneself, "Well, it's not loaded, so I can ___") leads directly to negligent and sometimes to reckless behavior.

But even with that in mind:

Nobody is immune to the occasional brain fade.

pax
 
I too have experienced a "unintentional discharge". One range trip I forgot my AR-15 mags. Rather than drive 45 min back home I decided to single load rounds into the chamber. This is a bit tricky on an AR with no mags in place. I fired several shots and then in one instance while I was thumbing the bolt release it induced what I think was a slam fire. My finger was not on the trigger and I also know the safety was not on. I didn't think this occurrence was possible with the AR by design but it did happen. The fired round went into the dirt about 100 ft in front of the line. That was my wake up call. I now have a hard wired motor skill for safety on / safety off after each shot (or shot bursts). It's just not worth the risk from being safety switch lazy. And if you have an AR, don't single load rounds into the chamber and let the bolt slam against the round...
 
I didn't think this occurrence was possible with the AR by design but it did happen.
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I have not ever personally handled & identified a firearm design that is more likely to slamfire than the traditional Stoner-designed AR.

What happened to you is not only possible, it's maybe the "best" way to attempt to induce a slamfire.

And the next time you are at the range, stop in the middle of a magazine and eject the loaded round and inspect that round and you will most likely see evidence that the firing pin has already touched the primer. :eek:

It is designed to do so. And the rounds being dragged from the magazine is also part of the "design", or at least... we have come to "accept" it. Myself, I have NEVER been in favor of this nutbar arrangement, but I will admit right now that I have just one EBR and not only is it enough for my lifetime, it comes close to being MORE than enough. (i.e., I am not a fan, generally speaking)
 
John Williamson,
I don't know 100% that the bullet hit the berm. However, the berm is *very* generous (at least 15 feet tall and surrounds everything within a 180 degree angle). I had rotated my wrist to turn the gun 90 degrees (think gangster style, but with both hands) and might have had the muzzle aimed slightly left. It may have hit left of target, but I'm pretty confident that it did indeed hit the berm. I would had to have had it pointed far upwards to escape it. Obviously I was focused on the gun when it went off.
 
dakota.potts said:
In the middle of one magazine, I hit a point where it felt like the trigger should be breaking and it wasn't despite putting more pressure on the trigger. I broke my firing stance slightly and turned the gun sideways to look at the ejection port and see if the previous round had jammed or if the gun had not returned fully to battery. I'd turned the gun fully to the side and looked at it for only about a second when it fired.
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I had an <insert favorite here> discharge exactly like that. In my case, I admit it was "negligent" because I still had my finger on the trigger when the gun fired. It was dumb, and though I'm a safety nut, I flaked out for a just a nanosecond and the result was an ND. As others mentioned, the 4 rules are intentionally redundant, and as I was still pointing to the berm, no harm was done (I did immediately put the gun down, cleared my head and processed what just happened before continuing).

My point is, whether someone's never had an "X" discharge themselves is immaterial - even good & experienced shooters are susceptible, whether by their own negligence or not. I know a nationally ranked shooter who got DQ'd at a national championship for an ND. As Pax offered, no one is immune from brain fade.
 
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