Need some stats to silence a co-worker...

O

othermarc

New member
Help, I am being persecuted as a gun nut since I enjoying shooting sports. People I work with are terribly anti-gun, though none of them has ever held one. They think they know all there is to know about guns. I need a little help in proving them wrong, but I do not know enough myself.
I have been looking for numbers of people killed by law abiding citizens, under the Brady law, etc, vs those killed by illegal posession of a handgun/firearm. They seem to think most people who kill other people legally bought their guns, just like me. As if one day I will come into work and shoot everybody just cause I own a gun or two or seven! Just cause I enjoy a sport they do not, I am a crazy homicidal maniac.
If anyone knows numbers like these, preferrably with a source, or where I can find info like this, I would really appreciate it. Thanks.

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Live Free or Die
 
I've run into the same problem where I work. Unfortunately, small minds never grow. Now matter what you present or say to them...you're gonna be a gun nut, possibly even a freak. You might run into one or two that actually open there minds...but I've found that trying to talk to these people about guns is like trying to talk to them about religion.
 
The only argument that I have found that even half way works with these people is to ask them this simple question.... "Do you trust yourself enough not to use a weapon to kill someone?" Then when they say yes, they do trust themselves, then ask them "Then why do you not trust the other law abiding citizens who choose to own guns? There is no difference between them and yourself other than they happen to own guns. Are you any better or more trustworthy than I or others?"

I have found giving them all of the stats the history etc. they just ignor and discount.

I have taken the tact that I am a proud gun owner. I am the bulwalk of freedom for this country, here to defend it against all enemies. I also now ask them what is wrong with them. Are you a coward? Is your worthless life worth more than the LEO's who you expect to protect you? Do you discount the value of your life so much that you are not willing to take the responsibility for it?

Well anyway you get the drift. Be proud, make them out to be the bad guy. Stand up and be counted.

Richard
 
I had the same problem at work and with my new social circles. I found if you talk openly enough about how interesting and how much you enjoy your sport they get jealous. Once you get one of them converted other soon follow…….isn't that just like sheep. It took me about 8 months to convert a dozen here so it can be done. Be vigilant and show them how the sport requires knowledge, responsibility, and self-control. That will help expose their ignorance of the subject.

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lasciate ogni speranza, voi ch'entrate
 
I'm not sure that talking about "silencing" coworkers is a real good idea given the current context, and they are entitled to their own opinions (no matter how uninformed or closedminded). That said, I'd recommend an essay entitled "A Nation of Cowards" from a few years ago. Here's the URL:

http://www.jim.com/jamesd/cowards.htm

Good luck!

db
 
DaveB -- please accept my apology. I suspected sarcasm, but didn't quite go with that hunch.

[This message has been edited by cornered rat (edited April 08, 1999).]
 
Dave B, you have an excellent. I should not be trying to infringe others rights to their opinions, when I am trying to protect my own rights. Thanks for smartening me up to that.

http://www.guntruths.com has a plethora of information. Thanks.
 
Dave B, you have an excellent point. I should not be trying to infringe others rights to their opinions, when I am trying to protect my own rights. Thanks for smartening me up to that.

http://www.guntruths.com has a plethora of information. Thanks.

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Live Free or Die


[This message has been edited by othermarc (edited April 08, 1999).]
 
I usually point out that over 80 million Americans own firearms, and SOMEHOW, 99.?% of them manage to go through their entire life without killing anyone or breaking any laws with their guns, despite the fact that there are an awful lot of laws out there (over 20,000) that do little more than complicate the lives of honest, law abiding citizens.
You can also point out to whomever you're having this discussion with that "they" have probably broken more laws with their car than you have with any of your guns.
 
Thought for today.

Do you still have a right to your opinion if the facts prove you're wrong?

Thought for tomorrow.
Do you still have a right to your opinion if you call the gunowner who just expressed HIS opinion a nut? gun nut. two words descriptive noun is NUT.

Where did we get the idea that it's perfectly acceptable for any mouth breathing semi-literate geek to blurt out any slop that he's managed to retain from the opinion factory (evening "news") regardless of who's hurt, slandered, or impugned in any way?
Since when is it acceptable for any jerk who comes along, to tell me I'm wrong when I can back my statement up with FACTS! And then tell me I'm lying when I reveal those facts!
yeah, "you" gotta a right to say what you like. I've got the right to tell them to SHUT THE F*** UP!
Screw tolerance. That's where Political Correctness comes from. Where's THAT gotten us?
Tolerance has done nothing for the gun cause except lose ground at a breath taking pace. I've had enough. If somebody says something stupid, I'm going to let them know.
"I gotta right!"

See you in jail!




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Your mind is your primary weapon.
 
I work around a plethora of different physicicans who staff our Emergency Department on contract. The majority are still residents who simply don't have the time to be well educated in anything but their medical specialty. Their views pretty much run the possible gamut. If they are obnoxiously anti gun, I will simply ask them what other portions of the Bill of Rights they don't support and how long they have been in favor of governmental tyrrany. My coworkers also cover the spectrum from anti gun to the lab tech whose husband has a two hundred yard range in the back yard and shoots a .50 BMG rifle.

I run into many physicians who have bought the AMA dreck that gun ownership is a public health problem. I simply tell them we don't have a gun ownership problem rather we have a criminal survival rate that is way too high. We don't need to get rid of gun ownership. We need to get rid of criminals who misuse guns and preferably let the victims get rid of them.
 
othermarc, a good friend and writer just gave me a copy of "Non-Fiction Writer's Guide - A writer's resource to firearms and ammunition" from SAAMI (Sporting Arms and Ammunition Manufacturers' Institute). This is a great little reference, with excellently cited sources to dispute the drivel that most anti-self defense types spew. See SAAMI at http://www.saami.org/ , or call them at 203/426-4358. They probably can send one to you.

For example, "One popular argument claims that a firearm in the home is an accident waiting to happen. But what is the reality? According to the National Safety Council's "Accident Facts', accidental firearm fatalities in the home numbered 1,000 for 1997." (preliminary figure at time of publication) Compare this with 3,300 deaths by fire burns, 9,200 deaths from falls, 6,700 deaths from poison, ...

Now, the argument comes from the fact that roughly 35,000 people die annually from firearms. Of those, around 3% are unintentional deaths (which is where the 1,000 number above comes from), and 96% are either homicides or suicides. SAAMI makes the argument (appropriately from my perspective) that it is unreasonable to group intentional (and usually criminal) misuse in with accidents. They point out that "While firearms ownership has more than doubled over the last 30 years, the number of accidental firearms fatalities has been reduced by more than 50 percent. If there were truth to the allegation that guns in the home are unsafe, we would expect to see a correlative rise between the number of guns in private hands and the number of accidental firearm fatalities. Thanks in large part to industry-sponsored education efforts and the responsibility of gun owners, that correlation does not exist."

However, I agree with some of the member comments above that there are a signficant percentage of ignorant anti-self defense people that do not care about the facts. Increasingly I start these conversations by asking something like "If I can show you well-documented facts that dispute your position, would you consider examining or revising your views on firearms?" Most of them don't have the guts to just answer "no". Those with closed minds usually end up saying something like "such facts don't exist". Either way, it saves a lot of time. And, some of them may eventually see that that approach is about as logical as being a bigot about race and religion.

Good luck. The best course is to continue to provide a good example, IMHO.
 
My site is collecting some pretty good ammo, most related to CCW. The article from the Detroit News regarding the links between Michigan's discretionary carry system and the KKK should be enough to cause any modern liberal to suffer a "paradigm shift without a clutch".

http://www.ninehundred.net/~equalccw

Jim March
 
Here is response that a someone left on my Second Amendment Message Board for just such a situation such as yours...

...say loudly for all to hear "You're not honoring my lifestyle and diversity".

This will almost always quiet your liberal critics! Also, don't forget that firearms are used for defensive purposes up to 2.5 million times per year, usually with out a shot being fired!

As far as statistics, you can find links on my Second Amendment homepage to answer all of your questions. Start with, "Fables, Myths, Other Tall Tales"

Joe

<A HREF="http://members.aol.com/nralife/politics">Joe's Second Amendment Homepage</A>

<A HREF="http://www.netbabbler.com/goto/index.php3?forumid=12204">Joe's Second Amendment Message Board</A>




[This message has been edited by nralife (edited April 10, 1999).]
 
Othermarc: I commend to you the book "Under The Gun", by Wright, Rossi & Daly. (Oops! I just checked it out at amazon.com, and it's now a $50 book! Try your library, or I'll send you mine after I get back to Georgia.

Dry statistical stuff by folks who started out as anti-gun or neutral, and changed toward our side. A major conclusion was that no gun laws have ever served to reduce crime.

A data point as to pistol-arguments: Of those shot with pistols, one-third die, two-thirds survive. Of those shot with long guns, two-thirds die, only one-third survive. So, if we "magicked away" all pistols, the death rate from shootings would increase.
 
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