Need Info on Browning Hi Power

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lonewolf1981

New member
I’m looking to purchase my first Hi Power from my local forum listings and I’ve come across a few that I’m looking into, one is a mid 70s model with Tangent sights (asking $1300 obo). The other is the one I’m really confused about since I can’t find any info about it. It just has “FN Herstel” and “Made in Belgium” on the left side of the slide, and “HP SAs Cal. 9*19” on the right. It doesn’t have “assembled in Portugal” but it does have an Import mark in it. They’re asking $800 for this one. I haven’t contacted either seller yet, but is there any significant difference between the two? Could the second one be a police trade-in? Are the Tangent sights actually usable? Any info is appreciated, thank you.
 
The second described pistol would be a import sold by a Sacramento Ca distributor, depending on condition value is $400-800 . The tangent or as FN called it “Capitan” is one of the last of the tangent pistols, as slides were used up the pistol was no longer offered. Some of the later tangent pistols were cut for a shoulder stock others were not. For $1300 the pistol should be pristine with box and papers. The pistol can be dated through the serial number.
 
I owned several Hi-Powers in the past. Lightest trigger pull my gunsmith and I could fanagle with one was still at least 12 pounds or more... terrible. Super slick and accurate, but with heavy triggers I didn't keep any of them long.
 
shurshot said:
I owned several Hi-Powers in the past. Lightest trigger pull my gunsmith and I could fanagle with one was still at least 12 pounds or more... terrible. Super slick and accurate, but with heavy triggers I didn't keep any of them long.
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How? That was the best a professional gunsmith could do? I can get it down to 6.5 lb. with spring swaps and the removal of the magazine disconnect ...

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Tunnelrat, I wished I knew you 25 to 30 years ago when I had them! Yes, that was the best he could do at the time.
 
I guess I'm spoiled by the existence of places like Cylinder and Slide and BH Spring Solutions. Even a laymen like me can get something half decent in the end. To be fair though, as much as I like my Hi Powers the triggers from my simple mods aren't what is call great, just not as heavy. The reset is only mildly detectable, and the break isn't what I'd call crisp. Maybe if I went full custom I'd be in a better boat. Coupled with my poor luck with them in terms of durability and reliability and it's a love/hate relationship.

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I carried a '68 model Hi-Power for the bulk of my first tour in Vietnam...the gun had been re-done by Jimmy Clark in Shreveport IIRC and had a good ~4-5 lb. trigger and tuned slide rails. It was absolutely reliable with GI 9mm ammunition and was a constant companion (off my hip only when I was in a shower point or had my tiger stripes down over my boot tops in a 4-holer). Clark had removed the magazine disconnect as well. It was a long lost friend that I sorely wish I could re-acquire.

Currently, I have a pair: a .40 with that lovely deep blue finish and adj. sights that mark a Mklll. It too is about 100% reliable with most anything I've fed it. The trigger, with no work done except to remove the mag disconnect, breaks at roughly 4-5 lbs. For a carry piece, I'd not want it any lighter. Of the 4 .40's of various makes that I own, it's the most accurate.

The 2nd is a two-tone Mklll in 9mm with no work done on it as well...aside from the mag disconnect removal that is. It too has a 4-5 lb. trigger and accuracy is just a bit better than the .40, depending on the load. Both guns are great to carry, exhibit that superb BH grip and fun to shoot.

For target work, neither can compete with a tuned 1911 trigger, nor the latter's accuracy. But for day to day carry, they're more than good enought. I'd say that for the half dozen or so, BHP's that I've shot and handled over the years, removal of the mag disconnect was all that was necessary to radically improve their triggers and accuracy for all averaged ~3-4" at 25 yds with most any brand of 9mm ammunition. Truth be told, that's probably better than 90% of the current crop of wonder 9's.

YMMv Rod
 
"...Lightest trigger pull..." You take out the mag safety? Without doing that you have a secondary pressure to overcome.
"...doesn’t have “assembled in Portugal”..." That wasn't done by FN HerstAl then, as I recall. The "HP SAs Cal. 9*19" sounds like a commercial assembly with an aftermarket barrel.
"...police trade-in..." Highly unlikely. Don't know of any North American PD that issued BHP's.
 
There are a lot of imported Hi Powers from Israeli and European police service. I've owned a few. They often do not have the Assembled in Portugal markings.

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T. O'Heir said:
"...Lightest trigger pull..." You take out the mag safety? Without doing that you have a secondary pressure to overcome.
"...doesn’t have “assembled in Portugal”..." That wasn't done by FN HerstAl then, as I recall. The "HP SAs Cal. 9*19" sounds like a commercial assembly with an aftermarket barrel.
"...police trade-in..." Highly unlikely. Don't know of any North American PD that issued BHP's.
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None of what you have posted is accurate. The amount of pressure put on the trigger by the mag disconnect is minimal at best. Removal does not "lower" the trigger weight as much as people think it does. It smooths it out but does not lower actual trigger weight much. If you put the avg BHP on a trigger scale before and after removing the mag disconnect you will find it drops between 1 - 2lbs at most. What people perceive as lighter is actually smoother. It also can negatively effect the trigger reset. To lower the weight you have to change the springs and the geometry of the trigger.

FN makes all Browning Hi Powers and Browning High Powers. Only those that are intended for the US/Canadian are rollmarked assembled in Portugal but every BHP made since somewhere in the mid to late 1970s was assembled in Portugal.

Many Browning High Powers which were originally shipped to non North American countries have made their way here with HP SA 9X19 rollmarks vis the secondary import market. Most by way of Israel. I can almost guarantee this is a contract gun shipped to the middle east at some point in its lifetime and it ended up in the hands of the IDF and then was imported into the US by someone like CDI Sales AKA Coles Dist in KY. They were very discrete about where they placed the secondary import mark. Most of the time you can't find it unless you know where to look. :eek:

As to police trade in you are correct not many used the BHP but police all over the world did. So it is possible but my money is on the IDF being source of the gun but then again what do I know about BHPs.

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When it comes to BHPs I listen to people like Willliams, Yost and Garthwaite. When working with Mr Yost on my last BHP build we talked about what a BHP needs. To paraphrase Mr Yost said a BHP need a good set of sights, a good thumb safety and a good hammer sear and trigger job. Everything else we do to them is to make them pretty but if you cover those bases you take a good gun and make it something great. I agree 100%.

Yost

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Williams

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Garthwaite
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As I posted on another forum to the OP.

The first gun is a commercial tangent gun. If it has a C in the serial number it would be a gun made around 1969 to 1977. These dates are not and fast. They are approximate dates. Now if it does not have C in the serial number but a 2 digit date code then the gun is an 80s or even 90s Tangent. The Tangents did not always come with a stock cut in the frame. You need to be careful with stock cut guns. If they are not old enough to be grandfathered and if you are not using the original stock you are in danger of running afoul of the NFA. People generally pay a premium for the tangent guns even though they are not great everyday shooter nor are they really rare. They are no more
"rare" than a BHP Practical. I would say $1300 is an OK price not a good price but you are not getting killed on that pistol.

The other gun is a non US import gun. It was not originally produced by FN for the US/North American market. This is why is has a FN roll mark vs a Browning Rollmark. There are some exceptions to this rule for guns which were imported by FN USA. These will normally show a Columbia SC or Fredericksburg VA location in the rollmark. If it does not show either of these locations it is most likely a secondary import pistol and has a secondary import mark somewhere on the gun. Some are very visible like Mach 1, PW Arms or CAI but others like Coles are discreetly done. Either way I would say that gun depending on condition is on the high side by about $200. It is possible it is a surplus gun.
 
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You might want to check out the BHP Brownells is now importing from Turkey .
Write up in the NRA magazine Shooting Illustrated , June 2019 .
Out the box trigger pull weight ...5 lbs. Average accuracy with 3 different loads 115. 124 and 147 grain bullet weights 2.5" , out the box accuracy no gunsmithing done to it ! MSRP $558 in black . Comes with 2 Mec-Gar magazines.
Mfg . by TISAS and called the Regent BR9 . A faithful reproduction of the Browning with a few upgrades .
For $602 it comes in stainless , It's in stock but alas I don't have the where with all ...
A dollar short again , story of my life !
Gary
 
gwpercle said:
You might want to check out the BHP Brownells is now importing from Turkey .
Write up in the NRA magazine Shooting Illustrated , June 2019 .
Out the box trigger pull weight ...5 lbs. Average accuracy with 3 different loads 115. 124 and 147 grain bullet weights 2.5" , out the box accuracy no gunsmithing done to it ! MSRP $558 in black . Comes with 2 Mec-Gar magazines.
Mfg . by TISAS and called the Regent BR9 . A faithful reproduction of the Browning with a few upgrades .
For $602 it comes in stainless , It's in stock but alas I don't have the where with all ...
A dollar short again , story of my life !
Gary
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There have been reported and verified frame and slide failures. 3 IIRC. Lots of small parts breaking. Extractors, firing pin retaining plates. They only honor a 1 year warranty. Typical spotty Turkish QC. You are better off with a surplus FN IMHO.
 
WVsig said:
There have been reported and verified frame and slide failures. 3 IIRC. Lots of small parts breaking. Extractors, firing pin retaining plates. They only honor a 1 year warranty. Typical spotty Turkish QC. You are better off with a surplus FN IMHO.
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BH Spring Solutions and others do offer parts kits to replace the parts they've seen repeatedly fail. They have one with 8,000 rd at this point. Frames cracking and slides cracking are no joke, but 3 out of how many? Would I prefer zero cracks? Absolutely. But these aren't selling for what commerical FN models used to sell for. These are notably less. If you just want the Hi Power feel maybe it's good enough.

I've had 2 surplus Hi Powers (not 3, that was wrong). Even the ones I bought that looked good cosmetically still needed springs replaced, new mags, cosmetic touchups, etc. When they were $500 for a good one I was okay with that. I go on GunBroker now and I see beaters that have practically no finish left for the same price. Yes there are exceptions, but they are more exceptions than the rule (feel free to browse GunBroker and post examples to prove me wrong, I'm not going to fight over it). You may be starting with better metallurgy, but unless you care nothing about appearance you also need to refinish the pistol and deal with any other issues (i.e. do you want the lanyard loop removed or do you want to cut grips).

My point is I'm not sure it's a no brainer anymore, at least for me, to go surplus over the Tisas. And as time goes by and the Hi Powers that come in as surplus get worse and worse or fewer and fewer and the price increases I think the Tisas looks better.

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TunnelRat said:
BH Spring Solutions and others do offer parts kits to replace the parts they've seen repeatedly fail. They have one with 8,000 rd at this point. Frames cracking and slides cracking are no joke, but 3 out of how many? Would I prefer zero cracks? Absolutely. But these aren't selling for what commerical FN models used to sell for. These are notably less. If you just want the Hi Power feel maybe it's good enough.

I've had 3 surplus Hi Powers. Even the ones that looked good cosmetically still needed springs replaced, new mags, cosmetic touchups, etc. When they were $500 for a good one I was okay with that. I go on GunBroker now and I see beaters that have practically no finish left for the same price. Yes there are exceptions, but they are more exceptions than the rule (feel free to browse GunBroker and post examples to prove me wrong, I'm not going to fight over it). You may be starting with better metallurgy, but unless you care nothing about appearance you also need to refinish the pistol and deal with any other issues (i.e. do you want the lanyard loop removed or do you want to cut grips).

My point is I'm not sure it's a no brainer anymore, at least for me, to go surplus over the Tisas. And as time goes by and the Hi Powers that come in as surplus get worse and worse or fewer and fewer and the price increases I think the Tisas looks better.

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There are less than 50 Tisas owners on the 1911forum 3 have had catastrophic failures where the guns had to be replaced. Early adopters are now having warranty claims denied. It is a small sampling but it’s all we got because the US distributor is not going to give you the data.

The Tisas looks good but I would never buy one. Most of the surplus guns are rough in finish only. You can get a mechanically sound gun and have it hard chromed for not much more than the cost of a Tisas. The parts that count like the barrel frame and slide are good to go if you are buying from the right sellers. Your money do what you want but like I said I wouldn’t buy this Turkish clone now. 3 years from now maybe. Until then I if I was on a budget I would get a Feg.
 
Also this is a $465 OTD Surplus Alloy BHP that was purchased off of GB in Oct. ;)

WK0UWr3.jpg
 
WVsig said:
There are less than 50 Tisas owners on the 1911forum 3 have had catastrophic failures where the guns had to be replaced. Early adopters are now having warranty claims denied. It is a small sampling but it’s all we got because the US distributor is not going to give you the data.



The Tisas looks good but I would never buy one. Most of the surplus guns are rough in finish only. You can get a mechanically sound gun and have it hard chromed for not much more than the cost of a Tisas. The parts that count like the barrel frame and slide are good to go if you are buying from the right sellers. Your money do what you want but like I said I wouldn’t buy this Turkish clone now. 3 years from now maybe. Until then I if I was on a budget I would get a Feg.
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Limited data is what it is. It's hard to make definitive conclusions from people on forums as what percentage of gun owners go on a forum? My point was there are examples having gone higher round counts without cracking. Like you say, the QC isn't as consistent as many other manufacturers. I'm not denying it's a bit of a gamble. My point is for a person that doesn't want to go through the work of refinishing and refurbishing a surplus model I can see why someone would go the Tisas route. For myself I don't own won, but I wouldn't mind trying one. There's an Argentine FM90 that's pristine for sale near me locally for $400. I'd probably just go that route.

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WVsig said:
Also this is a $465 OTD Surplus Alloy BHP that was purchased off of GB in Oct. ;)



WK0UWr3.jpg
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Nice. Like I said there are exceptions. If you're patient and a bit lucky you can always snag a deal. That's never changed.

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