Need Info In Support Of The 9mm Cartridge

Knowing what I do of human nature, I suggest that you are tilting at windmills. good luck getting the single authority in the department to change what he obviously considers to be an important issue
 
Well, in today's economy, you could argue price of ammo, price of training, etc. Also, look at the actual energies provided by 9mm +P rounds vs .40 rounds. One example I can point to is 165 grain .40 and 124 +P Golden Sabers. You're looking at 485 vs 384 ft.lbs. That may or may not help your case. Magazine capacity is a good talking point. I would think the controllability of the 9mm round would be a good bet. You might reference http://www.chuckhawks.com/handgun_recoil_table.htm as a basic table for recoil energies. It's not perfect, but it's a reference.
 
I echo what is being said about the 9MM Para. I like them because they can be more easy to control than a larger caliber. Follow up shots as said are faster, and you can carry more ammo. A lot of research has gone into hollow point defense ammo since 1986 and the 9MM has benefited greatly from this.
 
To the OP, that paper should be a lay-up. The information contained herein as well as the net in general taken in conjunction with your experience relative to your profession should result in quality and compelling research. Sometimes I think we try and over-complicate the matter. I would salivate at the opportunity!

-Cheers
 
Here is some results from a recent ballistics workshop conducted by the Ft. Collins PD. Using 9,40, and 45 modern defensive/duty rounds. Results show 9mm out performing .40 in penetration and expansion.
http://le.atk.com/pdf/Ft_CollinsPoliceDpmt.pdf

And here is a list of other departments findings.
http://le.atk.com/general/irl/woundballistics.aspx

in the late 80's early 90's the 9mm earned a bad rap which unfortunately, has stuck with it. Bullet technology has come a long way since, and any difference between 9 and 40 is negligible as far as terminal results go.
 
You know, I like .40 best, but I appreciate and support your request. I think departments should allow officers to carry guns in the 4 major calibers (9x19, .40, .357 SIG, .45) and from a decently wide range of quality, high capacity, modern design pistols. (Glock, Ruger, Springfield, Beretta, Sig). The MOST important criterion ought to be officer comfort and skill with their weapon.

As much as it makes me sick to say something positive about ground zero of anti-gun corruption, I think Chicago PD has it right.
 
Thanks for the posts. I have garnered some good information and referrals.

Nanuk,how is the quality and reliability of the LoneWolf products?
 
+1
Absolutely! Confidence is a major factor in personal performance. A LEO should have a choice of the platform they perform the best with. Good luck.
 
Best info I've ever seen regarding caliber disputes. Unfortunately it sides with your chief but it's a hell of a good read anyways. This was the reason that I bought a .40 instead of a 9mm:http://www.gunthorp.com/Terminal Ballistics as viewed in a morgue.htm

Since buying my .40 I now realize that if premium hollow points are in both guns(i.e. Gold Dots) and your shooting directly at a bg and not through doors, windshields, etc, the 9mm can do about the same thing. If the SHTF and you can only get FMJ ammo the .40 will crap all over the 9mm though. Good luck and definitely check that link out ^.
 
@LawScholar - Something you have to remember is interchangeability. If something crazy happens and he runs out of ammo, his partner can just toss him a loaded magazine if they all have the same setup. That's the reasons why they do that in the military. Just my 2 cents.
 
AlBundy said:
@LawScholar - Something you have to remember is interchangeability. If something crazy happens and he runs out of ammo, his partner can just toss him a loaded magazine if they all have the same setup. That's the reasons why they do that in the military. Just my 2 cents.
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Solid argument. My brother is in an agency that issues G22 .40s and approves only G27 .40s as backups. That is their reason and it's a good one. I just put it at a slightly higher priority for officers to be able to respond with 100% of their possible skill in the initial moments of attack.

My bro is fortunate. His gun of choice was a G22 years before he became an officer.

Both arguments have merit. It's a bit of a Sophie's choice. Either all officers get a gun they are pretty good with, and can exchange, or officers get guns they're great with, but are out of luck in an extended gun battle.
 
I think that they are top notch, the barrels are match grade. The company has fantastic customer service and stands behind their products.

I use the LW conversion barrel in my gen 4 Glock 23. I had to use the gen 3 recoil system as the gen 4 - 40 recoil spring was too much. Saturday I plan on running 100 rounds of WWB 115's for function as all I have run to date is 124 +P's.
 
Try to get in touch with some one at the Salt Lake Unified Police Department, or the Salt Lake County Sheriff's office.

Though the Sheriff's office is part of the Unified Police, it still operates independently, in some ways.

Both entities allow officers to choose their weapons and cartridges from a list of department-approved options. They found, long ago, that officers comfortable with what they're using are far more proficient with the weapon. That translates to quicker reaction time, better accuracy, and fewer shots fired, overall. It does cost more money to support multiple platforms and chamberings, but the benefits are worth it.
 
AlBundy said:
Best info I've ever seen regarding caliber disputes. Unfortunately it sides with your chief but it's a hell of a good read anyways. This was the reason that I bought a .40 instead of a 9mm:http://www.gunthorp.com/Terminal Ballistics as viewed in a morgue.htm

Since buying my .40 I now realize that if premium hollow points are in both guns(i.e. Gold Dots) and your shooting directly at a bg and not through doors, windshields, etc, the 9mm can do about the same thing. If the SHTF and you can only get FMJ ammo the .40 will crap all over the 9mm though. Good luck and definitely check that link out ^.
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You know that article/post was debunked right? Here's one of many threads about that bogus analysis.

http://www.thehighroad.org/archive/index.php/t-627640.html
 
I'm betting that his decision has nothing to do with 9mm vs 40 performance and more to do with wanting all officers to have 1 uniform gun and caliber. From a legal, training and logistical perspective that is a big deal for someone in an administrative postion.

Our local city PD still carry S&W 5906's. No choice. You train and carry what they give you. The county PD carry Glock 22's or 23's depending on rank. The county Sheriff's office has much more leeway. It can be any 9mm, 40, or 38 Special they can qualify with. Since they have to buy their own guns they are given more choices.
 
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