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Need help with Missouri bullet reload for 357
- Thread starter buzz58
- Start date
It depends on the die set. Usually you have a straight portion ahead of the flare, though the Lee Universal Expander is just a flare, as it is not caliber-specific so they wouldn't know what size straight flare to use in your application.
Very hard flaring pressure is odd. Be aware that the mouths of the expander and seating dies do not touch the shell holder on the upstroke as a sizing die does. You either leave a gap and adjust the expander position inside the die body via a threaded adjustment at the top until you have the right flare or, if the expander position inside the die is fixed, you adjust the whole die to just barely expand the case mouth. Same with the seating die. You leave a gap at the upstroke position and use the adjustment inside the die body. Keep in mind you are only trying to prevent shaving of the bullet.
How far water will be penetrated is a surprisingly complicated question to answer. It will vary with bullet sectional density, which depends on bullet weight and, in turn, becomes smaller as a bullet expands, increasing its frontal area, so penetration will be inversely proportional to expansion. The expansion, in turn, requires a certain velocity to happen at all and velocity affects how much it expands. You can expect some bullets fired just below their expansion velocity will penetrate further than at a slightly higher velocity that starts to expand them. Bullets that have an expansion threshold above which they expand rapidly and fully will do that. Bullets that take more effort to expand, like soft points, may not. Additionally, different bullet designs have different expansion initiating velocities. For some bullets, above a still higher velocity threshold, will fold back over the bullet, slightly reducing the maximum expanded area and thereby increasing sectional density again a little over the fully expanded value, so penetration can increase again. So you can have a penetration curve for which penetration increases with velocity to the expansion threshold then drops and then starts to climb again, and then makes a more sudden climb as the petals fold back, and then goes back to a less rapid penetration increase with still more velocity. And I haven't gone into the fact the resistance will be roughly proportional to the square of the velocity and the effects of cavitation, which I have not studied the math for.
Here's a YouTube video where a .38 Special and a .357 both penetrate the same distance through water because of the complexities of early energy depletion and the difference in the bullet shape. Looking at other YouTube water penetration videos will be about as useful. Your best bet is to try it yourself for your load.
Very hard flaring pressure is odd. Be aware that the mouths of the expander and seating dies do not touch the shell holder on the upstroke as a sizing die does. You either leave a gap and adjust the expander position inside the die body via a threaded adjustment at the top until you have the right flare or, if the expander position inside the die is fixed, you adjust the whole die to just barely expand the case mouth. Same with the seating die. You leave a gap at the upstroke position and use the adjustment inside the die body. Keep in mind you are only trying to prevent shaving of the bullet.
How far water will be penetrated is a surprisingly complicated question to answer. It will vary with bullet sectional density, which depends on bullet weight and, in turn, becomes smaller as a bullet expands, increasing its frontal area, so penetration will be inversely proportional to expansion. The expansion, in turn, requires a certain velocity to happen at all and velocity affects how much it expands. You can expect some bullets fired just below their expansion velocity will penetrate further than at a slightly higher velocity that starts to expand them. Bullets that have an expansion threshold above which they expand rapidly and fully will do that. Bullets that take more effort to expand, like soft points, may not. Additionally, different bullet designs have different expansion initiating velocities. For some bullets, above a still higher velocity threshold, will fold back over the bullet, slightly reducing the maximum expanded area and thereby increasing sectional density again a little over the fully expanded value, so penetration can increase again. So you can have a penetration curve for which penetration increases with velocity to the expansion threshold then drops and then starts to climb again, and then makes a more sudden climb as the petals fold back, and then goes back to a less rapid penetration increase with still more velocity. And I haven't gone into the fact the resistance will be roughly proportional to the square of the velocity and the effects of cavitation, which I have not studied the math for.
Here's a YouTube video where a .38 Special and a .357 both penetrate the same distance through water because of the complexities of early energy depletion and the difference in the bullet shape. Looking at other YouTube water penetration videos will be about as useful. Your best bet is to try it yourself for your load.
Mine are old Lyman dies from the 70’s. I took them apart and there is a pre bullet expander before the flare. I’ve been reloading brand new brass. But I did you reload a couple dozen of them once firied brass and the expanding step was a lot easier pull on the press handle. I think the dirty brass added little lube to it, with less restriction.
So I went to my parents place, in pole building, where I store my prized possessions for many years. I went looking for my old reloading stuff. Found reloading manuals, bullet puller hammer, small funnel, etc.
But the main reason was I knew I had pounds of bullseye powder there. Now this keg of bullseye was purchased in 1979!!
Now this is a cardboard container, with steal bottom and top, with a pull out plastic pour spout.
I brought it home.
Opened the cap and smelled it. Not much smell. So I began to shake it up and mix it well.
Opened and I could smell powder! I poured my be 1/4 pound or so onto a paper plate to look at it
It look like Bullseye.
So I loaded 4.8 grains on top of a 158 grain Missouri bullet, in a 357 brass. Step out of my garage and fired.
To my amazement I got a Big Bang!!
So that 41 year old powder. Stored and forgotten In a in uninsulated pole building in Minnesota. The powder was stored anywhere from 90° Plus summer temperatures to -35° winter temp.
So I had to load up 12 more rounds of 5.4 grains. That old ████ still has a kick to it!!
So I went to my parents place, in pole building, where I store my prized possessions for many years. I went looking for my old reloading stuff. Found reloading manuals, bullet puller hammer, small funnel, etc.
But the main reason was I knew I had pounds of bullseye powder there. Now this keg of bullseye was purchased in 1979!!
Now this is a cardboard container, with steal bottom and top, with a pull out plastic pour spout.
I brought it home.
Opened the cap and smelled it. Not much smell. So I began to shake it up and mix it well.
Opened and I could smell powder! I poured my be 1/4 pound or so onto a paper plate to look at it
It look like Bullseye.
So I loaded 4.8 grains on top of a 158 grain Missouri bullet, in a 357 brass. Step out of my garage and fired.
To my amazement I got a Big Bang!!
So that 41 year old powder. Stored and forgotten In a in uninsulated pole building in Minnesota. The powder was stored anywhere from 90° Plus summer temperatures to -35° winter temp.
So I had to load up 12 more rounds of 5.4 grains. That old ████ still has a kick to it!!