Conservative
New member
Thanks for all the help. I like TFL and will stick around. By the way does RKBA = the Right to Keep and Bear Arms?
Need help with college paper on pacifism.
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Conservative
New member
I have been doing a little research, and have found that it is very obvious that Christians may use deadly force. Self-defense and war are treated in a positive light in HUNDREDS of passages in the Bible.
The following is a really great story that I hadn’t thought about in some time. I rediscovered it while searching the bible at http://bible.gospelcom.net If you want to see what the Bible has to say about anything, check out their cool search engine that allows you to search the bible in seven languages. By the way, Moab is a country which the Israelites always had lots of trouble with. At the time of this story Israel was under the domination of the Moabites.
Judges 3:15 - 31
Again the Israelites cried out to the LORD, and he gave them a deliverer--Ehud, a left-handed man, the son of Gera the Benjamite. The Israelites sent him with tribute to Eglon king of Moab.
Now Ehud had made a double-edged sword about a foot and a half [5] long, which he strapped to his right thigh under his clothing.
He presented the tribute to Eglon king of Moab, who was a very fat man.
After Ehud had presented the tribute, he sent on their way the men who had carried it.
At the idols [6] near Gilgal he himself turned back and said, "I have a secret message for you, O king." The king said, "Quiet!" And all his attendants left him.
Ehud then approached him while he was sitting alone in the upper room of his summer palace [7] and said, "I have a message from God for you." As the king rose from his seat,
Ehud reached with his left hand, drew the sword from his right thigh and plunged it into the king's belly. Even the handle sank in after the blade, which came out his back. Ehud did not pull the sword out, and the fat closed in over it. Then Ehud went out to the porch [8]; he shut the doors of the upper room behind him and locked them.
After he had gone, the servants came and found the doors of the upper room locked. They said, "He must be relieving himself in the inner room of the house." They waited to the point of embarrassment, but when he did not open the doors of the room, they took a key and unlocked them. There they saw their lord fallen to the floor, dead.
While they waited, Ehud got away. He passed by the idols and escaped to Seirah. When he arrived there, he blew a trumpet in the hill country of Ephraim, and the Israelites went down with him from the hills, with him leading them. "Follow me," he ordered, "for the LORD has given Moab, your enemy, into your hands." So they followed him down and, taking possession of the fords of the Jordan that led to Moab, they allowed no one to cross over. At that time they struck down about ten thousand Moabites, all vigorous and strong; not a man escaped. That day Moab was made subject to Israel, and the land had peace for eighty years.
After Ehud came Shamgar son of Anath, who struck down six hundred Philistines with an oxgoad. He too saved Israel.
The following is a really great story that I hadn’t thought about in some time. I rediscovered it while searching the bible at http://bible.gospelcom.net If you want to see what the Bible has to say about anything, check out their cool search engine that allows you to search the bible in seven languages. By the way, Moab is a country which the Israelites always had lots of trouble with. At the time of this story Israel was under the domination of the Moabites.
Judges 3:15 - 31
Again the Israelites cried out to the LORD, and he gave them a deliverer--Ehud, a left-handed man, the son of Gera the Benjamite. The Israelites sent him with tribute to Eglon king of Moab.
Now Ehud had made a double-edged sword about a foot and a half [5] long, which he strapped to his right thigh under his clothing.
He presented the tribute to Eglon king of Moab, who was a very fat man.
After Ehud had presented the tribute, he sent on their way the men who had carried it.
At the idols [6] near Gilgal he himself turned back and said, "I have a secret message for you, O king." The king said, "Quiet!" And all his attendants left him.
Ehud then approached him while he was sitting alone in the upper room of his summer palace [7] and said, "I have a message from God for you." As the king rose from his seat,
Ehud reached with his left hand, drew the sword from his right thigh and plunged it into the king's belly. Even the handle sank in after the blade, which came out his back. Ehud did not pull the sword out, and the fat closed in over it. Then Ehud went out to the porch [8]; he shut the doors of the upper room behind him and locked them.
After he had gone, the servants came and found the doors of the upper room locked. They said, "He must be relieving himself in the inner room of the house." They waited to the point of embarrassment, but when he did not open the doors of the room, they took a key and unlocked them. There they saw their lord fallen to the floor, dead.
While they waited, Ehud got away. He passed by the idols and escaped to Seirah. When he arrived there, he blew a trumpet in the hill country of Ephraim, and the Israelites went down with him from the hills, with him leading them. "Follow me," he ordered, "for the LORD has given Moab, your enemy, into your hands." So they followed him down and, taking possession of the fords of the Jordan that led to Moab, they allowed no one to cross over. At that time they struck down about ten thousand Moabites, all vigorous and strong; not a man escaped. That day Moab was made subject to Israel, and the land had peace for eighty years.
After Ehud came Shamgar son of Anath, who struck down six hundred Philistines with an oxgoad. He too saved Israel.
GF,
How could I possiblly be offended after receiving a complement such as that!
And please accept my apology for any unintended offense.
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John/az
"The middle of the road between the extremes of good and evil, is evil. When freedom is at stake, your silence is not golden, it's yellow..." RKBA!
How could I possiblly be offended after receiving a complement such as that!
And please accept my apology for any unintended offense.
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John/az
"The middle of the road between the extremes of good and evil, is evil. When freedom is at stake, your silence is not golden, it's yellow..." RKBA!
Conservative,
You've received a lot of advice on biblical examples of non-pacifism. If you are planing to do your paper on just that, let me offer you some advice: When you go to hand your paper in, ask that it be judged on your writing, research, and the conclusions that you have reached, and not on any preconceived ideas.
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jones
You've received a lot of advice on biblical examples of non-pacifism. If you are planing to do your paper on just that, let me offer you some advice: When you go to hand your paper in, ask that it be judged on your writing, research, and the conclusions that you have reached, and not on any preconceived ideas.
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jones
Thanks John. I admit that jones brings up a concern anyone might have about turning in a paper to what seems to be a very biased Prof. Conservative can speak for his school, but I would like to add that I spent time in the seminary and was only graded on my critical thinking and language skills, not subjective conclusions. Ironically, that bias was definitely evident in my studies at secular institutions. C- hope you give us a bit of your basic thesis and how it is received when it is done.
Jeff Thomas
New member
Conservative, perhaps you knew this already, but this exercise may be driving the point home. The anti-self defense movement is all about ignorance and lies. As a matter of fact, one of the truest statements I've heard about this debate was from a pro-RKBA speaker who said of them - 'They can lie faster than we can tell the truth.'.
We have truth on our side. We need enough time for people to listen to it, consider the implications and use their good sense.
Thank you for being one of those who has the courage and intelligence to discern the truth and counter the ignorance. Good luck. Tell us how it all comes out.
Regards from AZ
We have truth on our side. We need enough time for people to listen to it, consider the implications and use their good sense.
Thank you for being one of those who has the courage and intelligence to discern the truth and counter the ignorance. Good luck. Tell us how it all comes out.
Regards from AZ
Seems to me the entire philosophy of this religion is staunchly pacifist, and you do not, and will not ever, fit among them. Nor will you ever change their minds - it's too deeply a held belief. You may be a "christian" as you say, but you are NOT one of them, and they would never consider you a proper "christian" as they define it. So, you have two options: "Speak your mind" in the paper, and expect to get a "C", give or take, or jump on the pacifist bandwagon and get a better grade. I wouldn't fault you for either course of action, but I wouldn't delude myself into thinking you're actually going to change the prof's mind about this issue in this particular sect/religion. You have to pick your fights, and I think this battle is too uphill to be worth it. Just my two cents.
[This message has been edited by Futo Inu (edited November 23, 1999).]
[This message has been edited by Futo Inu (edited November 23, 1999).]