Need help on deciding what 38 to get for Armed Security Guard work

H

hop0626

Inactive
I am going to be doing Armed Security Guard work and need to decide what revolver to get . Here in FL most Security companys only let you carry 38 special revolver. I am looking for something with a 4inch to 6inch barrel
and it definitly has to be able to except the crimson trace laser grips. I have been looking at the Ruger SP101 as one of my choices. I would also consider a S&W as long as it can except crimson trace laser grips I know that company makes alot of them for the S&W revolvers
 
Ruger

GP 100 in a four inch barrel. You can always sell it and get your money back if you change jobs, or decide on something else. Get it in stainless, easy to take care of. IMO
 
Look at the new SW 619 or 620 in a 4" barrel. It'll hold 7 shots of 38/357 goodness and can easily accept Crimson Trace laser grips.

Another option is the SW 65 or 66 with a 4: barrel. Those can be had on the cheap and can also mount CT grips easily.

Another option would be a Taurus Tracker 627 in 4" guise -- stainless and holds 7 shots. Might be a tad cheaper than the new Smiths too.

The downside to the SP-101 is the 5-shot capacity.

Regardless of what you choose, get a few speedloaders (my preference is Safariland, then HKS) and practice a lot. With an investment of time, you can get very quick in the reloading of the wheelgun.
 
Thanks for all the info I am leaning towards S&W . I am going by a local gun place over here in Casselberry called shoot straight they have a large selection of S&W revolvers
I am going to take a look at those :D
 
Unless I'm mistaken most companies won't let you use a magnum and .38's through it. It has to be a .38 gun -- at least that was the case with the companies I delt with; it's stupid but "policy." I'd say the S&W 10 which has been the standard military and police gun should fit the bill.
 
If the security company insists on a .38 special, you'd probably need to change options. Look at:

S&W Model 10, 12, 15, 64, 67
Taurus 80, 82
Ruger Service/Speed/Secuirty Six
 
model 15

the model 15 suggestion is excellent...or just a good old bull barrel model 10 (fixed sights K frame)...
they are both great choices...good in the hand, shoot well, reliable as a rock...and easy to maintain...any half competent gunsmith can slick the action nicely.
 
The Florida Security Handbook says the only firearm authorized is a standard police 38 or 357 caliber revolver with factory 38 caliber ammunition.What is a standard police 38 lol sorry if thats a dumb question. Also remeber the revolver I get must be able to except Crimson Trace Laser grips
 
no problem

K frame S&W and the laser sights are no problem.
check out gunbroker.com and gunsamerica.com
for S&W model 10 and model 15...imagine you will find
good examples of both and be able to look at photos of them
the model 10 is a bit simpler with no sights to adjust or beat up
but will not target shoot as well as the adjustable sight model,
and with the 10 stick with the 4 inch bull barrel for duty carry
and avoid the old pencil barrel. A 4inch barrel is the usual revolver duty carry size in a sam brown-type or regular duty belt rig.
as for ammunition...a standard 38 load is between 800-900 fps at the muzzle (depending on bullet wt, etc.)...
if you can carry hollow points, carry the federal hydrashock is my suggestion
in the 125 grain bullet wt. version...a "plusP" or "Plus P Plus" loading will increase bullet velocity, also chamber pressures, recoil and muzzle blast.
 
When I did security work I carried a smith model 686 4 inch stainless I did walking patrol and car patrol also escorts on motorcycle was always good in the rain and easy to care for .......did this and carried it for 7 years...
 
Ok I will ask about the K frame S&W. The book also mention these types of ammunition are NOT ALOUD to be used lol
1 Glaser type or any pre fragmented type bullets
2 Exploding bullets
3 Full metal Jacket
4 Teflon Coated
5 Full wadcutter bullets
6 Reloads

So what kind of ammo can I use lol
 
hop0626:

It looks like they have limited your choices to factory loads, either Lead Round Nose (LRN), Lead Semi Wadcutter (LSWC), or conventional jacketed hollow point (JHP) or jacketed soft point (JSP). Also it appears that they allow the standard "FBI" load which has been a standby for many years: .38spl +P 158gr LSWCHP (lead semi wadcutter hollowpoint) -- a very good choice indeed. I'd stay away from the LRN's and the LSWC's, and I'd stay away from the JSP's as well, for carry/duty purposes (ok for practice/range, though). That leaves the "normal" Self Defense (SD) ammo, take you pick of .38 spl (normal strength .38's), .38 spl +P ("hotter" .38's) or .357 magnum JHP's or the LSWCHP's. Be sure that your revolver is able to handle the .38 +P or .357 magnum if that's the route you take.

There are several good brands of defensive JHP ammo, I'd stay with the "premium" lines. Personally, I have Speer .38spl +P 125 gr Gold Dot JHP's loaded in my S&W 686 for home defense use, and that would be a good combination for what you are looking for. By no means is that the only good combination, though.
 
Side drift really, really fast:
claim it on my income tax
Click to expand...
This is perfectly legal to do, it's called a job expense so remember that when you buy.

I say either a SW or Ruger. I thought I read that you are allowed a .357 but only loaded with standard .38's and the GP fits that bill well.

Wayne
 
Correct tax information. You are allowed to deduct uniform items, weapons, dry cleaning, a vest and if you drive your POV OTJ, mileage can often be deducted as well as expenses. Keep rceipts in your name and file everything as job related/required expenses. IOWs, copy the state and company requirements. Your specified ammunition and practice ammunition is deductible.
 
I would go with the S&W Mod. 64, which is the model 10 only in stainless steel. Guns carried a lot by people who are not gun "people" will get little/none cleaning attention.

These guns will be subjected to all kinds of weather, then put up wet, frozen, baked, and dirt encrusted.

If I could get away with a 357 in this situation, then the Model 65, which is a 357 version of the 64 would be my next choice.

Limited to just 38 sp. the Ruger's are like tanks...get them in stainless and they too would give long life and useful service!

If your limited to the 38, but no ammo restriction, then probably a 110 gr. soft lead hollow point of some sort..When I use to reload, I used a 158 gr. semi-wadcutter, then would drill a small hole in the tip.
 
38 Loads to consider:

158 grain LSWC-HP, either the Remington (R38S12) or Winchester load. This is also known as the FBI, Metro, or Chicago Load. It has a soft lead semi-wadcutter bullet with a nice, large hollow cavity at the nose. Time proven design with good penetration and expansion. It's been getting the job done for over 25 years.

Speer 135-grain Gold Dot JHP has been designed for snub guns, but would also work pretty well out of a 4" barrel. Probably would push the load fast enough to have it fragment, which would hinder penetration to vitals. Don't know enough about it to say conclusively though.

Winchester 130-grain SXT Supreme JHP has a cavernous hollowpoint cavity and has performed well in tests found in various websites.

The PMC Starfire JHP are a "sleeper" and much overlooked. They come in a 38 +P 125-grain JHP and are a later refinement by Ted Bryzincki, the creator of the Hydra-Shok bullet that is held in such high esteem by many shooters. I carry them in both 45ACP (Commander) and 357MAG claibers (M-65 & M-66 with 3" barrels), and they have proven accurate, and reliable expanders from my guns when tested and recovered in wet, bound phonebooks, milk jugs, and that freezer-burned hunk of beef roast covered with an old undershirt, ratty vest, and worn-out windbreaker.

There are a large variety of 125-grain JHP in +P for 38 special loadings by many makers. These lighter bullets seem to work reasonably well. My concern in fixed sighted guns would be the POA/POI issue with the lighter bullets as most fixed sight guns are calibrated to 158-grain loads.

I'm not overly fond of the lighter 110-grain loads in 38 specials. They simply lack sufficient momentum to penetrate deeply up North where I am at and people tend to be heavier and wear many layers of clothing. But they may be effective in sunny FL. The "Treasury Load" was a +P+ loaded JHP weighted at 110-grains. It seemed to work well while those fellows used SW-66s.
 
Recommendations:
the only firearm authorized is a standard police 38 or 357 caliber revolver with factory 38 caliber ammunition.
Click to expand...
Smith & Wesson:
.38 Special Models 10/64, 15/67 with a 4" barrel.
.357 Mag Models 13/65 19/66, 27, 28, 581/681, 586/686 with a 4" barrel
(Slash "/" denotes guns that are twins as blue/stainless model numbers)

For lowest cost, generally the fixed sight Models 10, 13, 64 or 65 will be the best bet. For a fixed budget, a "Heavy Barrel" model 10 or a Model 13 can often be found for $250 to $300. Alternatively, a good Model 15 is a fine adjustable sight revolver in the same price range.

Note that the Models 27 & 28 are huge frames and very heavy. Also that the 58x/68x series is somewhat larger & heavier than the lower model numbers.

Taurus:
If the budget is very tight, take a look at the Taurus Models 65 and 82. These are .38 (M82) or .357 (M65). Their Models 66 & 627 have a 7-shot cylinder. Many holsters that fit S&W "K" frames (.38/.357) will also fit the Taurus guns. Be sure to check the fit yourself however.

Ammunition:
Carry/Duty ammunition should be between 125gr and 158gr bullet weight, ideally a jacketed hollow point (JHP) such as any of the following (in no particular order);
  • Winchester Silvertip JHP
  • Remington Golden Saber
  • Speer Gold Dot
  • Federal Hydra-Shok
If these premium bullets are too expensive, look for the so-called "generic" ammo, such as;
  • Winchester-USA (USA-38SP)
  • Remington-UMC (L38S2)
  • PMC ammuntion (38D).
Bullets that are under 150gr usually produce less recoil.
My preference would be Federal's Hydra-Shok 129gr JHP or Winchester 125gr Silvertips.

While the Crimson-Trace laser grips may help (and CT should make grips for most of these guns) you will have to do considerable shooting with your "duty" load to determine the correct offset from the laser at different ranges. For grips that'll cost as much as the gun, I'd shell out for a gunsmith to install a Trijicon night-sight tube in the front sight.

Invest in a good gun-belt & holster with a retention system. This will help prevent someone from snagging your gun in close quarters. My preference (but I'm an old fart) is a thumbreak duty holster. The gun should fit the holster snugly and release smoothly. Many security folks with 4" guns opt for a "high ride" holster, especially for driving or desk work as it keeps the gun tucked in high along your side. I'd avoid "swivel" holsters and low-riding holsters for security/retention reasons.

Additional items would include speed-loaders (Safariland or HKS) and carriers for them. If these are too pricey, see if old-fashioned "dump pouches" are in the bargain bin and buy some Bianchi Speed strips for them. Learn to use them. Mount spare ammo on the front, same side as your holster (strong side).

Invest also in a good flashlight and carrier if you can. Mag-Lites are good but note that the longer "C" cell lights fit nicely into a baton ring! Get at least a 4-cell. A bright Xenon "tactical" light should also be high on the list of items. Usually batteries are pretty pricey, but these lights can also "blind" someone for a few long moments and prevent a serious fight.

Remember your mission is "observe & report" and if necessary, protect life (including your own!). You're one man, usually alone and if you get whacked no one will get your report.
 
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