Need help from Smith and Wesson experts

SgtLumpy
It's not the drive so much as the traffic in the big city I would be driving to that makes me think about the drive so to speak,and the fact I don't really know what shape it's in until I make the drive. I don't really care about the barrel length I just want a good M-27 so I can see what all the Smith guy's are raving about:D
 
I have found that taking decent pictures of guns is -NOT- the easiest thing to do and when we see so many of the great photos that our users here on TFL post, I'm always ready to give a nod not just for their good looking guns, but their ability to capture a decent photo.

With that said, the photo of the revolver in question is horrific and it seems hard to understand why the seller couldn't possibly capture almost any picture better than that one. I've taken a cell phone picture of a magazine page that looked better than that.

I'm not saying the revolver will not end up being worth the trip. Actually, when I put on my "scheming" hat, I think you as much or more likely to find a GEM that nobody has bought because the seller used a camera from a cracker jack box and took the picture in a dark closet.

Sometimes you find really good deals because the seller doesn't realize how poorly he's offered it for sale. In a similar story, I know a guy who bought an Ed Brown pistol and never fired it, and later listed it along with a Smith & Wesson revolver in a classified ad in the local city's newspaper for a REALLY terrific price. This is a large city of a million people. He got a couple of phone calls on it and each caller said, "Hi, I'm looking for Ed Brown. Mr. Brown, I'm calling about the Smith & Wesson."

I ended up with both of the handguns. :p

At $450 for a Model 27...I wouldn't even consider the exterior condition of the revolver. If it's 100% functionally, it's worth that dough even if much of the finish is gone or it has some pitting. If the timing is right and the barrel is not bulged and the ejector not bent and otherwise doesn't look like it's been used as a tack hammer, $450 is a good buy. If it turns out to be minty, it's a steal.
 
Hard to judge by that picture. One thing that stands out to me is the front sight with orange insert. I'm no expert on all things S&W but that sixgun should have a black patridge front sight. This would be a deal killer for me unless the rest of the gun was pristine. I paid $400 for a freckled but mechanically sound 27-2 a year ago and that was "fair", not a steal at all though. It will cost me $300 for S&W to refinish it and now I'm at what it would cost to buy a nice one in the first place. All things to consider.

Driving 100miles in Florida is NOT like driving 100miles across the desert. Hit I-4 or the 408 at the wrong time and you'll spend 2hrs getting through Orlando. Around here, it's a nice afternoon drive but then again, I'd spend $50 in gas making that trip. So I wouldn't call it a sure thing at all. Better pics would tell a better tale.
 
newfrontier45
So you're saying that the front sight should not be Orange? What if it's just paint on the front sight? In truth if I buy it would just be to have the crème dela crème of Smiths. I already have a Colt Python which of course is Colts.
Again thanks to everybody who has given me advice on this matter.
 
S&W 3rd edition catalog indicates the model 27 could be ordered with a choice of any front sights ....so the red ramp isn't necessarily an indication that its incorrect..../ but the 6" and 8 3/8" barrels are commonly found with the Partridge front sight and plain rear blade.

The 4" versions of the model 27's had the white outline rear sight and the red ramp front sight.

I can't tell enough from the pictures....but I'd be afraid it has a lot of muzzle wear on the barrel - with the way that glare looks. The finish on the gun looks awful "flat" too....almost like a model 28 ( the utility version of the model 27 with a satin blued finish ). I think the model 28's in 8 3/8" barrels seemed to show up more often with that red ramp on the front sight.../ so check the markings on it carefully.

It depends on whether you want a model 27-2 in an 8 3/8" barrel ( personally I find them a little clumsy ) vs the 3 1/2", 4", 5" or 6" versions......where I like the model 29's ( .44 Mag ) in an 8 3/8"....but its a personal choice....

Model 27 is one of my all time favorite revolvers....but there are some suspicious looking reddish spots on the frame near the hammer too...maybe there is a reason his photo is so bad / maybe the condition is really bad...

There are a lot of very good condition model 27's still out there ....and while driving 100 miles isn't that big a deal / I'd probably pass on this one, and wait for a better gun to show up even if the price jumps to $1,000 or so -- I'd be happier with a gun in better condition. But you won't know until you go look ...
 
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Not trying to start anything, but I would note that 19s have cracked using ammo other than 125s. One 19-5 (and the -5s seem to it more than others in my limited experience) cracked after nothing but target grade ammo with 148 grain full wadcutters was used. I agree with the maintenance warning as carbon buildup may create hot spots that can lead to cracking, but it seems it can happen with any ammo.
 
This cracking issue on K frames comes up all the time....and I don't doubt its happened .....but in my own case, I have a pair of model 19's a dash 1 and a no dash, three model 66's - no dash, a pair of dash 1's..../ and all 5 of my guns ( all K frames in .357 Mag) .....have at least 50,000 - 100,000 rds apiece thru them and show no signs of any cracking ( almost all of my ammo thru them is reloads and 158gr FMJ - at mid to mid-upper level velocities).

My range trip this afternoon, just happens to be a "revolver day" ....for some tactical shooting "triple taps out of a holster at under 5 sec" and maybe some reload drills - which I really suck at ...

I have with me today a ( Model 66-1 2 1/2" and a model 19-1 4" Nickel) as well as a model 686 ( L frame) 6" ...and a model 629 3" .44 mag ). I'll run 2 boxes each thru the model 66, the 19 and the 686 .....and probably one box thru the .44 mag.../ but while I inspect my guns for cracks at least once a year....I've never seen a problem.

I don't know what other guys shoot thru their guns....but I think the high velocity 124 gr loads, in .357 mag, in the K frames ...is probably where most of the issues came from.
 
Its a little better photo .../ but finish still looks really "flat" to me....

I would make the 100 mile trip ( hopefully have something else to do in the area ) ...and inspect it closely / and still probably pass on it.

Here is what a 6" model 27 ...ought to look like ( and my photo skills are not good )..../ this one is a dash 5 ...with an aftermarket stock on it...( not for a purest, I understand - but still ) you can see the finish is bright - and a very deep blue.

S&W Mod 27-5 .357 Mag.jpg typical partridge front sight....

Here is a model 29-dash 1 ....8 3/8" in Nickel ( .44 mag ) ...

S&W Mod 29 Nickel .44 Mag.jpg ....red ramp front sight...
 
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I was under the impression that 28's only came in 4" and 6" lengths and only with the black ramp front sight but my memory may be failing. There's a possibility that the red ramp is original but it's doubtful. I've never seen one with a red ramp but I've seen a lot of guns that came with something else but were modified with a red insert.
 
I would make the 100 mile trip ( hopefully have something else to do in the area ) ...and inspect it closely / and still probably pass on it.
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I assume you mean if its reblued. A reblue obviously kills the value BUT dare I say, its still a pretty good deal if reblued. A factory reblue may have letters such as "R-S" or "R-B" sometimes inside of a box on the left grip frame if factory reblued. It also could potentially have a date stamp such as "3.75" meaning March, 1975, on the left grip frame. At $450 for gun, box and holster, when the box is probably worth $100, means you are in a "reblued" (if it is) model 27 for only $350. I'd say that's a deal just for the utility value of a model 27.

Hard to judge by that picture. One thing that stands out to me is the front sight with orange insert. I'm no expert on all things S&W but that sixgun should have a black patridge front sight. This would be a deal killer for me unless the rest of the gun was pristine.
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I was under the impression that 28's only came in 4" and 6" lengths and only with the black ramp front sight but my memory may be failing. There's a possibility that the red ramp is original but it's doubtful. I've never seen one with a red ramp but I've seen a lot of guns that came with something else but were modified with a red insert.
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You are right about model 28s that they had standard a black ramp, 4 or 6in barrels but there was a special run of 5in barrels made. I wonder if someone could have ordered one with a red ramp or not. As far as it being a deal killer, it really doesn't the lower the value any significant amount in the retail setting, but I can see to you, and to others, it would take away the interest.

Model 27s at that time (I assume the OPs gun to be 1970s) were available with any sight combination, since they were a deluxe model. Of course a ramp on an 8 3/8 barrel is unusual, but it could have easily been requested from the factory, along with the red insert. Its kind of like having a 4in 27 with a patridge target sight. While unusual, it was in fact a factory option. So possible, however improbable.

I bought a letter on my Xmas present last year from my wife, a 1951 357 magnum, pre model 27. The gun sports a ramp with red insert. Here is what Roy Jinks personally said of this matter:

GEDC0131_zpsb702a0c6.jpg


Here is the gun, one of my favorites. I would say mine did not come originally with the red insert, but those inserts became much more common later. I believe my ramp to be an original sight.

GEDC0176_zps4def7be0.jpg

GEDC0177-1_zpsd10ddd37.jpg
 
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A reblue obviously kills the value BUT dare I say, its still a pretty good deal if reblued.
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Definitely hurts a collector "value" but I'm sure that we are all still shooters around here. A fully functional 8 3/8" Model 27 in fine working condition is a heckuva buy at $450 even if the finish is awful. If it has been refinished and looks attractive, it's an even better shooter and that it looks nice too is a bonus.

I think collecting attractive or rare handguns is a fantastic hobby, but shooting them is what I enjoy. For $450, for a big, classic Model 27 to shoot? I'm not sure I can follow any argument other than "no brainer!" if you don't currently own an N-frame to shoot and enjoy on the range.

I have the good fortune to visit the Ohio Gun Collector's shows and I simply cannot compare them to the gun shows and shops around this country that all you folks haunt...but I can compare the OGCA to every other gun show I've ever been to in Ohio or Michigan over the past 25 years, and it destroys -all- of them, especially for Colt & Smith & Wesson revolvers.

If you set up a table with a Model 27-2 and stuck a $450 tag on it, it wouldn't last 5 minutes at this show.

Actually, Winchester_73, given your location...I think you really ought to attend one of these shows. I think you'd enjoy it.
 
As far as it being a deal killer, it really doesn't the lower the value any significant amount in the retail setting, but I can see to you, and to others, it would take away the interest.
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Like I said, it kills the deal for me. I'd rather pay another $200 for one with a proper patridge front sight but that is a personal preference.
 
If it has a significant amount of holster wear ...or if its been reblued....then yes, it would kill the deal for me.

What I was really saying is, for the price, I'd go check it out in person ....but if it had a lot of wear, I'd pass on it ...and happily pay more for a better gun down the road.

But I have three model 27's ...so easy for me to say.../ and I don't really like the model 27 in an 8 3/8" barrel, I find it too clumsy. I like the model 29 in an 8 3/8" barrel because the weight helps reduce the muzzle jump on the .44 Mag. ....but maybe its too good a deal to pass up ....just can't tell from the photos.
 
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