Need help finding a bow maker....

Oops, decided the 29.3" was too long; having them order a 28.0" Chuck says these things are going nuts, with calls from all over coming in.....

Savage, I agree - I won't be putting a quiver on mine. I'll just take my one arrow I'm hunting with, and throw one other spare arrow into some sort of quiver and put it in the backpack.
 
Use a decent brand fletch (duravane, Blazer, etc) with the new Biscuit and don't worry. I have never had a vane be adversely affected by the new biscuit design. They are a great hunting rest. I wonder how the stability of the bow is in hand while shooting. Referring to the tiny axle to axle length.
 
Thanks, onlybrowning, that helps. But what exactly do you mean by "stability" in that context? Whether the bow jiggles/moves during the release? Would you be concerned about left-right, up-down, forward canting, yawing, or spinning movement, or all of the above? Why do you ask that?

Chuck says he sold 3 of the 4 Liberties he had in stock on Sunday.

I ordered the 65-75 #, 28.0" draw length. They have a 60-70 and a 65-75 both (and other weights as well), so went with the slightly higher in this range, since I keep my 60-70 Hoyt on at least 65 all the time now, and it's comfortable for me to shoot easily.

Bow Report

By Bill Krenz


Liberty I

Bowhunters have long been fascinated by short, light hunting bows.

Forty years ago, recurve hunting bows as short as fifty-two inches sold very well, and others that were even shorter were offered.
Short compounds have also long held appeal. There is no disputing the fact that for at least the past thirty years, popular compound
bows have been getting shorter. In 1985, the axle-to-axle length of the average compound bow was somewhere in the neighborhood
of forty-five inches. By 1995, the average compound length had shrunk to less than forty inches. Today, it seems to be hovering
between thirty-three and thirty-six inches. The three-decade progression to shorter and shorter compound bows is well established.

What is also well known is the history of indignation and alarm that has sounded as compounds bows have shrunk. Old-liners,
clinging to convention, have routinely condemned every shortening step along the way. I remember when compound lengths first
dipped into the low-forties. That seems long ago now, but back then detractors roared that such “short” compounds could never be
shot accurately. Bowhunters bought those bows and loved them anyway.

The exact same thing happened when compounds plunged with abandon below the forty-inch mark and then the thirty-five inch mark.
The howls of protest and righteous anger sounded loud and clear. “Those bows can’t be accurate.”

Yet the march continued and bows did go shorter. And deer, bears, elk and more all continued to fall.

I recently tested a radical new compound hunting bow called the Liberty I. Remarkably, the Liberty I measures just over twenty inches
axle to axle. Yes, you read that right––twenty inches! It also weighs a scant 2.3 pounds, making it the shortest, lightest adult
compound bow available at this time. In fact, it’s over a foot shorter and nearly two pounds lighter than most of today’s compound
hunting bows.

Initial reactions to the Liberty I are boringly predictable. I’ve shown my Liberty I sample to a variety of bowhunters. The first reaction is
typically one of disbelief. “Is this for real?” The second reaction is one of unbridled fascination. It’s hard to get the Liberty I out of their
hands. Sometime after that, the old biases pop predictably up. “It can’t shoot all that well. It’s definitely cool, but isn’t it too short?”

The Liberty I is an amazing bow. It’s space-age, high-tech and unquestionably far out. Its axle-to-axle length is a good eight inches
shorter than the length of my normal hunting arrows. Yet, surprisingly, the Liberty I shoots amazingly well. I must admit that I was
surprised at just how fast and accurate the Liberty I performs. But on top of all that, the Liberty I is just plain cool.

One friend called it the coolest bow he’d ever shot. That sums up the Liberty I better than more words ever could.


KEY SELLING POINTS

Astonishingly Short
At just 20.5 inches axle-to-axle, the Liberty I is a compound bow venturing off into uncharted but exciting territory. Think about just
how short that is. It’s the length of three dollar bills and two quarters laid end to end. It’s five four-inch vanes. It’s just a bit taller than a
LaCrosse rubber boot. It’s compact with a capital “C.” It’s bold to the point of being almost electrifying. Hang one up in any archery
shop in the country and I guarantee it will be the topic of conversation.

“My intent was to create a very small, lightweight hunting package,” says Howard Winther, the bow’s designer and manufacturer. “I
wanted a bow that I could hook onto my backpack and not even feel it as I hiked along. I was looking for a bow that would fit into the
corner of my car truck and carry anywhere.”

The heart of the Liberty I design is its phantom shoot-through riser. The riser and limb pockets combined only measure a bit over four
inches in height. From profile, it’s almost as if a riser doesn’t exist. When you get behind the bow to shoot it, however, the true nature
of the Liberty I’s riser emerges and a generous 2.5-inch wide shoot-through gap becomes evident. That gap is artfully curved and
ruggedly designed.

Amazingly Light
By almost totally eliminating the length and mass of a conventional compound bow riser, the Liberty I is rendered astonishingly short
and amazingly light in weight. On my scale, the Liberty I weighed just 2.3 pounds. Blend 20.5 inches in length with 2.3 pounds and
you have a compound bow that carries like no full-power compound bow you have ever picked up. Strap it onto your daypack (or
maybe even put it inside a bigger pack), hook it to your belt or just carry it in your hand. The Liberty I rides like it’s not there.

Balanced Split-Cam Design
Perfectly complementing the bow’s shoot-through riser design is its split cam design. In effect, each skeletonized cam is over an inch
wide. That extra width creates a balanced spread between the bow’s two sets of cables that is over 1.5 inches wide at the bow’s
center. An arrow is nocked and shot between those sets of metal cable, as well as between the bow’s limbs and through the bow’s
riser. It’s a riser-limb-eccentric system with excellent balance.

Erogometric Angled Cushion Grip
To keep the inside cable set from hitting your bow arm, The Liberty I features a well-shaped grip that’s angled at a pleasing twenty-
nine degrees. That angle moves your bow arm out, as well as comfortably positioning your bow hand. I shot the Liberty I without an
armguard and never experienced a problem.

Surprising Performance
The Liberty I sports an aggressive eccentric system that delivers surprising arrow speed. See the Real Performance chart. Because
of its ultra-short length, string angle at full draw is acute with the Liberty I. That means that a D-loop is a must and a special peep is
also needed. I used a camo cord D-Loop tied in place and an index-finger caliper release with excellent results. I also used a tethered
peep sight designed specifically for the Liberty I and available from Liberty Archery. That special peep sight is available in three hole-
sizes.

Because of the nature of the bow, Liberty Archery suggests that a total-containment arrow rest or a total-containment drop-away rest
be used with the Liberty I. I used a standard Whisker Biscuit arrow rest and it worked perfectly. Built into the front of my sample
Liberty I was a Vital Bow Gear three-pin fiber optic sight. It’s a light, tough sight that works like a charm with the Liberty I. A bowquiver-
mounting bracket is also cleverly integrated into the bow’s diminutive riser.

The acute full-draw string angle took a bit of getting used to as it related to my usual anchor point, but in short order I was drilling
softball-sized groups at 40 yards on a windy day. The Liberty I shoots.

CLOSING THE SALE

This ultra-short, ultra-light hunting bow really is cool, and I’d present it to customers just that way. The Liberty I measures an ultra-
short 20.5 inches axle to axle and weighs just a bit over two pounds. Hand it to most customers and they’ll immediately recognize the
handling and carrying benefits. It’s also a bow that shoots with surprising speed and accuracy.

The new Liberty I will likely be among the coolest new bows for 2005 that you or your customers will ever shoot. Circle #245.

Liberty 1

Manufacturer Liberty Archery
Santa Clara, CA
(408) 988-1127
Circle #245

Model Liberty I
Axle-to-Axle Length 20.5 inches
Brace Height 7 inches
Mass Weight 2.3 pounds
Draw Weights 50#, 60#, 70#, 80#
Draw Lengths 26.35 to 32 inches
Eccentrics High-Speed, Split-Cable Cams
Letoff 85 percent
Grip Erogometric Angled Cushion Grip
Finish Realtree Hardwoods Green HD
 
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Samoand, look at what the website says about drawing with fingers:

STRING ANGLE WARNING
Friends will pick up your bow and try to draw it with there fingers. When they do this the string angle pinches their
fingers and causes extreme pain. Some in this situation just let go and dry fire the bow, others try to let the bow back
down and because of the pain twist the bow severely; consequently cutting the string or derailing the cables. It is very
sad to go on a hunt with your friends and you best buddy ruins your only bow. If your friends want to test the bow,
have them shoot it with a release. Prevent this situation by keeping the bow in the carry case.

PULLING THIS BOW WITH FINGERS VOIDS WARRANTY
This warning is on the invoice and the instruction sheet.

Yet, oddly enough, I pulled it back with fingers 5 or 6 times and didn't feel any pain. My fingers were a bit scrunched, so it would be hard to get a smooth release, so I'm going to use a mechanical release, not fingers, but finger shooting *could* be done in a pinch - get it, pinch?
 
Update

Bow came to the dealer by brown truck of happiness today; Picking it up this Saturday. With any luck, I can post pics and possible report on Sat or Sun. :)
 
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Interesting bow, just not for me. I shoot a release for some of the 1990's and went back to fingers. For me, mostly still-hunting, it is just a lot more practical.

My elk trip this year, I could have not carried any arrows and done just as well....

But I am curious when everyone talks about taking just one arrow, how are you carrying that one arrow and getting it into your stand?

The arrow shoots between the cables?? How quick do you think you could load an arrow in a pinch with the pressure on?
 
Reminds me of a hunt in Holly Shelter several years ago with a friend who was terrible with a bow.He shot his four arrows missing each time,climbed out of his stand retreived a couple and finally killed a little buck on his sixth shot.
 
ZJ - I used to (key words) hunt with a guy who practically bragged about running out of arrows on a Utah muley hunt, so always carried the biggest quiver he could find - like 12 arrows at a time.
 
If you need more than two, you're probably doing something wrong, and if you need more than three, you're definitely doing something wrong. IMO.

The one arrow I carry loaded into the bow on the way to the stand/hunt location, stalk hunting along the way. No real need for a quiver, but I admit I would like have at least a second arrow on me, in case I shoot at a turkey. Whether I hit it or not, I don't want to go down and retrieve the arrow/turkey during prime time, when a deer could come along.

As far as the quickness in loading up a second arrow, that is a good point davlandrum; it will be slow & cumbersome a bit with the Liberty - it's a tradeoff.

dav, let's hear the details of the elk hunt this year....
 
FF - as a bow hunting education instructor, I can't endorse walking with an arrow loaded. A broadhead has no safety. One slip can be fatal. At a minimum I would suggest a single holder that they make for traditional bows, but I think they are only designed for 2-blade broadheads.
 
Hmm, then how do you stalk-hunt? And the broadhead is pointed away from you, not at you. If you're using a whisker biscuit, that arrow would be *awfully* hard-pressed to go 180 degrees and stick you through the middle, regardless of how awkwardly you fell. I guess it *could* be potentially dangerous, though...

Anyhoo, this time tomorrow morning I'll be driving down to pick it up - I haven't been this pumped about an acquisition in a few years. :p
 
FF - I stalk hunt with all arrows in a quiver on my bow. Arrow comes out of the quiver when I am ready to shoot.

Sorry, but the 180 degrees and whisker biskit logic doesn't work. If you trip hard enough to drop your bow, the arrow does not have to come out of the biskit to be deadly. Also, is the blade really 180 degrees from you? I know walking in the woods, I move my bow around a lot to manuever. Remember, broadheads kill by cutting cleanly and making you bleed. Bump that broadhead anywhere on your body and things can get real serious real fast.

Think of it in terms of a rifle. The muzzle is pointed 180 degrees from you and something would have to pull the trigger, but you still keep the safety on until you are ready to shoot, right?

Accidents, by their nature, are rare. Do we really need to put on seat belts when driving, since we don't get in accidents everyday (at least I hope not?)? Do we really need to get our bow or gun or bow up and down from a tree stand with a rope, since we won't drop it everytime?

I served with a guy in Louisianna that got lazy and carried his shotgun (with slugs) down out of his stand instead of lowering it. Cost him his leg.

Obviously, as a licensed hunter and an adult, you can make your own choice. It is just totally against any hunter safety logic I have ever heard or taught.

Have fun with the new bow and give us a report when you can!
 
dav, I see what you're saying, but it seems just as likely that you would slip and fall off a cliff in steep terrain as to have an arrow turn on you and slice you up seriously or fatally, assuming you exercise reasonable care. I don't know how one could pull an arrow from a quiver without being seen or heard by the game. I have stalk hunted with a bow many times (never successfully), and it would be a sheer miracle to get within bow range without being seen or heard, and that's walking and a draw only - I cannot imagine how you could get an arrow from a quiver, with all the movement that that entails, in addition to walking/drawing. But then again, I'm essentially a novice hunter in the grand scheme, so I dunno. In any event, stalk hunting would be more safe with this bow than with others, since the arrow is *between* the limbs, as well as in the whisker biscuit.

Back to the subject at hand, got the bow right here by me - brought it home today! :D In two words, this bow is *JACKED. UP*! In a very cool way. :) Came with peep sight, tube for straightening the peep, 2 other peep sight sizes (so you have small, medium, and large peeps), whisker biscuit, 3-pin FO sight (pretty basic/crappy sight though), a quiver mount, cable silencers, and string silencers. Plus it has a 5-year warranty, good documentation, and a pretty nice soft-sided custom case (foam-lined). When carrying the case with the bow in it, I swear it feels like the case is empty. As I say, got the 28.0" draw length (actually, it says 27.95"), and a 65-75 lb draw weight. Haven't shot it yet, but I will definitely post pics of it and groups at a later date. I drew it back another 4 or 5 times in the store to check the sight alignment etc. before paying it off.

P.S. My Sooners kicked some Hurricane rear today. :)

P.P.S. Since I have an important traditional-only controlled hunt on Nov. 2 which is very hard to get drawn for, and since my skill is still poor with the recurve with no sights, I'm going to hunt with and practice with my recurve only between now and then (for the most part), so I doubt I'll have a *thorough* review until mid to late November. But at a minimum, I will post pics of the bow itself.
 
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Patience, my friend. We're getting there - making progress. Least I have the bow now! :p :)

P.S. Yesterday after drawing the new bow a few times and then shooting several dozen shots from my recurve I was getting sharp pains in my shoulder later in the evening - looks like my previous shoulder dislocation from hockey is not fully healed - dunno what the deal is - I sure hope this doesn't persist or I will have wasted my money on this thing, if I have to get a doc's clearance and go to x-bows. Bah....
 
Pics as promised

Here ya go...

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Sweet...

Do you have any comparison pics? It would be nice to see how it compares to a regular bow or other things.
 
Wow.A slingshot on steroids.

I'm just messin with ya.Bet it will be a joy to carry compared to a traditional bow.

Check out those hip quivers if you want to carry extra arrows.
 
Ask and ye shall receive

Size comparison pic:

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In addition to the Liberty, in the pic, there is a 60" PSE recurve and a 41.5" axle-to-axle Hoyt Compound.

ZJ, yes, I want to get one of the belt quivers; that'd be perfect. Slingshot on steroid, hee hee.
 

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