Stats Shooter
New member
I am looking to get a High Power. I see them selling on gun broker but am not sure of the difference between mk 1-3 or what constitutes a good one. Also what is a decent price vs condition?
Thanks
Thanks
Need An Education on Browning High Powers
- Thread starter Stats Shooter
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You can start here: https://hipowersandhandguns.com/
Just one? Or starting a collection? The world of Hi Powers is a complicated one and prices run from a few hundred to many thousands. If you simply want a shooter look on The auctions for Israeli police surplus running from about $400 on up. Most of these could use a refinish but are sound otherwise. Look for a book by Stevens or Vanderlinden to get a real education.
Then there are clones and imitations, the best clones are FEG (hungary) or FM ( Argentina) but the prices can still be quite healthy.
If you are that interested check out the books, internet and auction sites.
Then there are clones and imitations, the best clones are FEG (hungary) or FM ( Argentina) but the prices can still be quite healthy.
If you are that interested check out the books, internet and auction sites.
WVsig who is a member here has a number of threads about Hi Power projects that might be useful if you like tinkering.
Since they've gone out of production some prices have gone a bit nuts. Mach1Arsenal is a seller on GunBroker that has been importing both Mk II and Mk III Hi Powers of varying condition. I do notice the number he is listing is decreasing though, so I'm not sure if he's getting towards the end. The link given above for Stephen Camp's website seems to be regarded as an excellent source of information.
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Since they've gone out of production some prices have gone a bit nuts. Mach1Arsenal is a seller on GunBroker that has been importing both Mk II and Mk III Hi Powers of varying condition. I do notice the number he is listing is decreasing though, so I'm not sure if he's getting towards the end. The link given above for Stephen Camp's website seems to be regarded as an excellent source of information.
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I have a Mk II that I’ve had for a few months, and a Mk III that I’ve had for almost 10 yrs. This is the latest “why did they discontinue these” lament that you can also apply to the 3rd Gen Smith & Wesson models. In both cases the cheaper to produce polymer replacements made the 3rd Gens and the BHP redundant.
BHP’s are great shooting guns, and overpriced examples seem to be more prevalent on the used gun shelves than the reasonably priced ones, but there are plenty of these out there. You can score a pretty one if you’re willing to spend your $, or you can get a decent shooter for more reasonable prices.
BHP’s are great shooting guns, and overpriced examples seem to be more prevalent on the used gun shelves than the reasonably priced ones, but there are plenty of these out there. You can score a pretty one if you’re willing to spend your $, or you can get a decent shooter for more reasonable prices.
Stephen Camp's website is an outstanding source of information on the Browning Hi-Power. He covers the guns, the history and the loads that make them tick.
I carried one for the majority of my first tour in Vietnam, during the summer and fall of 1970. It was a constant companion; never out of reach in bunker, slit trench or cockpit...even using the 4-holer or in a shower point. I left it with the camp medic when I DEROS'd in Nov. of '70, and would give a considerable sum to see that old and trusted 'friend' again.
At the moment I have two that I carry and shoot quite a bit: The first, a gift from #1 son, is a .40 S&w "Standard" model with that beautiful bluing that's reminiscent of the 50's and 60's S&W's. It's the most accurate .40 I've ever shot by quite a margin (Glocks and Sigs). The sights are adjustable but...they're tall, i.e. they stick up above the slide quite a bit, that some find less than attractive. They hold their zero and make sighting in with the .40's broad spectrum of bullet weights, an easy process, and I no longer object to their appearance.
The 2nd is a two-tone "Practical" 9mm with fixed sights that I like very much. The front sight has a narrow, but shallow, white painted milled slot in it that easily captures the eye for quick defensive shooting, while the rear has an outlined notch. The narrow front sight white line allows a precision alignment of the sights in deliberate fire, but still allows quick acquisition at speed. With selected loads, this gun is as accurate as its .40 cal. stable mate, and shows a distinct preference for 124-125 gr bullets; both cast and jacketed. It'll hold 5 shots in less than 2" from 25 yds with American Eagle 124's or a cpl of my handloads. (About the limit of my aging eyes.)
Both of mine have disconnected magazine safeties, and Cocobolo checkered grips by Hogue. They're eye catchers in or out of the holster, but are stock in every other respect.
Here a few idiosyncrasies about Hi-Powers that I've noted.
1. Both, and especially the .40 have very stiff main spring/recoil springs, stiffer than any pistol I've ever encountered. Considerably stiffer than say, a 1911 Commander, they still allow easy take down, but it's well to remember the strength of the recoil spring in particular. It's a rare Hi-Power owner that hasn't chased one all over the basement. Re-assembly is not difficult but again, get a good grip on that recoil spring.
2. All the Hi-Powers in my experience have a magazine safety factory installed...without the mag in the well, you have a 36 oz. club in your hand. This mag safety impairs trigger action as well, giving the Hi-Power a reputation for a lousy trigger break. For these two reasons, many of us have removed the mag safety (an easy 10 minute job if you're moderately handy with tools). This radically improves the trigger...mine are more like a 1911 with a fairly good out of the box trigger and run about 4-5 lbs. A good weight for me, in Hi-Power or 1911.
3. Magazines are not cheap, especially the "mouse trap" variety supplied with the gun to overcome the mag safety's weight against the mag, hindering free fall from the mag well. I will say, that with mine, neither will eject a mag even with the "mag safety" disabled. For carry purposes, I've trained myself to hook a finger tip on the forward lip of the mag base plate, to facilitate stripping it. It's not a factor for me, but those who compete in the various handgun defensive games may find it slows their times.
4. Early models had a 'humped' feed ramp that worked well with FMJ rounds, but had trouble feeding modern JHP's. My 9mm "Practical" as well as the .40 have the newer feed ramp geometry which eliminates the hump and I've found no problem feeding anything from radical JHP's to cast LSWC's. I can't remember a FTFeed as a matter of fact with either gun. IIRC, the Mkll and Mklll's all have the modified ramp.
For shooting with modern ammunition, I'd recommend the most current model: the Mklll. It has a slightly heavier frame that'll stand up to +P 9mm loads as well as any of the .40 stuff that's currently in vogue. The early ones, prior to the Mkll are not recommended for use with +P 9mm ammunition on a regular basis. More info on this is to be found in Camp's website.
It should be apparent by now that I really like the old P35 Hi-Power, they're addictive, and many, me included, have found that with a 14 round capacity in 9mm (11 in .40), and especially with the most superb feel of any auto-pistol grip, you've got a first rank contender for the ultimate in fighting handguns.
I carried one for the majority of my first tour in Vietnam, during the summer and fall of 1970. It was a constant companion; never out of reach in bunker, slit trench or cockpit...even using the 4-holer or in a shower point. I left it with the camp medic when I DEROS'd in Nov. of '70, and would give a considerable sum to see that old and trusted 'friend' again.
At the moment I have two that I carry and shoot quite a bit: The first, a gift from #1 son, is a .40 S&w "Standard" model with that beautiful bluing that's reminiscent of the 50's and 60's S&W's. It's the most accurate .40 I've ever shot by quite a margin (Glocks and Sigs). The sights are adjustable but...they're tall, i.e. they stick up above the slide quite a bit, that some find less than attractive. They hold their zero and make sighting in with the .40's broad spectrum of bullet weights, an easy process, and I no longer object to their appearance.
The 2nd is a two-tone "Practical" 9mm with fixed sights that I like very much. The front sight has a narrow, but shallow, white painted milled slot in it that easily captures the eye for quick defensive shooting, while the rear has an outlined notch. The narrow front sight white line allows a precision alignment of the sights in deliberate fire, but still allows quick acquisition at speed. With selected loads, this gun is as accurate as its .40 cal. stable mate, and shows a distinct preference for 124-125 gr bullets; both cast and jacketed. It'll hold 5 shots in less than 2" from 25 yds with American Eagle 124's or a cpl of my handloads. (About the limit of my aging eyes.)
Both of mine have disconnected magazine safeties, and Cocobolo checkered grips by Hogue. They're eye catchers in or out of the holster, but are stock in every other respect.
Here a few idiosyncrasies about Hi-Powers that I've noted.
1. Both, and especially the .40 have very stiff main spring/recoil springs, stiffer than any pistol I've ever encountered. Considerably stiffer than say, a 1911 Commander, they still allow easy take down, but it's well to remember the strength of the recoil spring in particular. It's a rare Hi-Power owner that hasn't chased one all over the basement. Re-assembly is not difficult but again, get a good grip on that recoil spring.
2. All the Hi-Powers in my experience have a magazine safety factory installed...without the mag in the well, you have a 36 oz. club in your hand. This mag safety impairs trigger action as well, giving the Hi-Power a reputation for a lousy trigger break. For these two reasons, many of us have removed the mag safety (an easy 10 minute job if you're moderately handy with tools). This radically improves the trigger...mine are more like a 1911 with a fairly good out of the box trigger and run about 4-5 lbs. A good weight for me, in Hi-Power or 1911.
3. Magazines are not cheap, especially the "mouse trap" variety supplied with the gun to overcome the mag safety's weight against the mag, hindering free fall from the mag well. I will say, that with mine, neither will eject a mag even with the "mag safety" disabled. For carry purposes, I've trained myself to hook a finger tip on the forward lip of the mag base plate, to facilitate stripping it. It's not a factor for me, but those who compete in the various handgun defensive games may find it slows their times.
4. Early models had a 'humped' feed ramp that worked well with FMJ rounds, but had trouble feeding modern JHP's. My 9mm "Practical" as well as the .40 have the newer feed ramp geometry which eliminates the hump and I've found no problem feeding anything from radical JHP's to cast LSWC's. I can't remember a FTFeed as a matter of fact with either gun. IIRC, the Mkll and Mklll's all have the modified ramp.
For shooting with modern ammunition, I'd recommend the most current model: the Mklll. It has a slightly heavier frame that'll stand up to +P 9mm loads as well as any of the .40 stuff that's currently in vogue. The early ones, prior to the Mkll are not recommended for use with +P 9mm ammunition on a regular basis. More info on this is to be found in Camp's website.
It should be apparent by now that I really like the old P35 Hi-Power, they're addictive, and many, me included, have found that with a 14 round capacity in 9mm (11 in .40), and especially with the most superb feel of any auto-pistol grip, you've got a first rank contender for the ultimate in fighting handguns.
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On the magazines, if you look on Greg Cote's website you can find MecGar Hi Power magazines for ~ $23. While not Browning originals, they're very solid magazines (MecGars are in general) and recommended by Camp as well.
http://gregcotellc.com/cart/browning-mecgar-magazines-c-121/
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http://gregcotellc.com/cart/browning-mecgar-magazines-c-121/
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You need to be a little more specific about that you want to know. IIRC you have started threads like this in the past. Last time it was about the 40 S&W version but lots of the same info applies. There is ton of good info out there. You could literally write a book on the history of the BHP. R. Blake Stevens already did but it goes in and out of print all the time.
The Browning High Power Automatic Pistol
https://www.amazon.com/Browning-High-Power-Automatic-Pistol/dp/0889350892
Another great book with BHP info is FN Browning Pistols, Side Arms that Shaped the World History: Expanded Second Edition by Anthony Vanderlinden
https://www.amazon.com/Browning-Pis...coding=UTF8&psc=1&refRID=FDNNZRQ4664MDAQMRZRV
These and the late Mr Camp's website are very good starting points. One thing you will encounter is that there are almost no hard and fast rules when it comes to BHPs. FNs record keeping and accounting are more of an art than a science. Brownings own website contains errors on the page that attempts to help one determine the date of birth of their BHP. They never threw away parts and contract guns spanned all sorts of generations with many what appear to be mix master guns that are actually factory original. The gun was in production for over 80 years. There is a lot of history during that 80 years. If you know enough about them, how to read date codes, where to look for inspector marks, recognize proof marks etc... you can fairly accurately date most BHPs. However sometimes all you can make is a WAG.
If I were just getting into the BHP market I would first determine what I want to do with the gun. Am I looking for a collector gun? Am I looking for a BBQ gun? Am I looking for a carry gun? Range toy or even a base gun for a custom build. Once you determine that you will then gravitate to certain configurations and vintages of BHPs. There will be many varying and ranging options on what is the best. In the end the "best" is often determined by its intended use IMHO. Also there is a ton of misinformation about BHPs that gets repeated over and over again until people think that they are true. A few have already come up in this short thread.
The biggest myth that is propagated about the BHP is that John Moses Browning designed the gun we call the Brown Hi Power or P35. The inspiration for this design was his desire to correct "his mistakes" found in the 1911 design and that he considered the BHP to be his crowning achievement when it came to pistol designs. JMBs last pistol design was the Grand Rendement. Here is a pic of that gun.
All of these statements are false. The designer of the gun we shoot today and call the BHP was designed by Dieudonné Saive. He designed the Grande Puissance which is the gun adopted by the Belgians in 1935, with a few minor changes, that we still shoot today.
If you know how you want to use the gun and you have some specific questions about which variant will suit that purpose best post the details here and I others will attempt to steer you in the right direction. Also a price range you are looking to spend would also be helpful. The BHP market has gone up a bit and there is some not so smart buying and attempted selling currently going on but there are still deals and values out there to be had if you know where to look and what you are looking for. Good luck.
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Stats Shooter
New member
I did start a thread like this about the 40.....in the end I never got one as other things came up. I dont want to spend over $1,000 if possible. I'm not looking for a collector piece, but I would like some decent aesthetics and reliable functionality. Also I want it to be made by a reputable manufacturer.
So I guess I'm not too picky. It will likely be the only one I buy. Essentially I have been adding some 9mms to my collection and would like a BHP.
So I guess I'm not too picky. It will likely be the only one I buy. Essentially I have been adding some 9mms to my collection and would like a BHP.
I would recommend a MKIII because it will have a stronger cast frame. It will feed hollow points. It will have modern sight cuts. I also recommend a blued version vs and epoxy. It will not wear as well but it will look better IMHO. You could get a surplus gun but if the budget is $1,000 you can get a gun in pristine condition with no secondary import mark.
I would get a real Browning. Some of the FM and FEG clones are great but they are over priced in todays market. This is a pretty good deal on an Epoxy Finish.
MKIII Epoxy Finish $850 Buy it Now
https://www.gunbroker.com/item/795241475
I have seen lots of nice BHPs of multiple vintages under $1,000 within the last 3 months. Good luck
Geezerbiker
New member
Some FM Argentine Hi Power clones were improperly heat treated and the locking lugs wear out in around a 1000 rounds. If you consider getting one of these, ask to take the slide off and check the locking lugs before putting down any cash...
Tony
Tony
If you're looking for a shooter, get a commercial Mk. III.
They have good sights, ambi safety, you're not going to have to sort through well-used military surplus, etc.
I'm mostly a 1911 guy, all of mine are modified in some way to suit my preferences, but the only change I've made to my BHP is to black-out the rear sight dots.
That said, most stock BHPs have terrible triggers, and if you are accustomed to nice, single action triggers, you'll probably want some trigger work done.
They have good sights, ambi safety, you're not going to have to sort through well-used military surplus, etc.
I'm mostly a 1911 guy, all of mine are modified in some way to suit my preferences, but the only change I've made to my BHP is to black-out the rear sight dots.
That said, most stock BHPs have terrible triggers, and if you are accustomed to nice, single action triggers, you'll probably want some trigger work done.
RickB: said:
Don’t rule our a commercial Mk II like the one I picked up a short while ago. Not exactly a beauty queen compared to some of the nicer looking Mk III’s, at up to $1,800.00 that I passed on, but it’s in great original condition and is a fine shooter. Of course it needs sights and trigger work, but (IMHO) all stock BHPs do!
To quote Ted Yost, " Browning Hi Power only need a few things to be great. Good sights, good triggers and a good thumb safety"
>)WVSig: said:
When I was back in CO several months ago, an LGS had a new and a used Nighthawk Custom Hi Power and I was sorry at that time that I “snoozed & losed” on the used one which cost $2,600.00. It’s too bad that Browning discontinued the Hi Power, but since there were no more frames & slides available, Nighthawk also discontinued these guns.
Sgt Pepper
New member
The only practical difference that I know of between MKII and MKIII is the front sight is fixed on the MKII and dovetailed on the MKIII. Otherwise, the differences are primarily cosmetic.
I had a few of BHP's in the past. Could never get a very good trigger pull with any of them, 6-7 pounds at best. My gunsmith did his best. Perhaps I had bad luck. Beautiful weapons though, very accurate. In the early 90's one I had, was used exclusively for thinning out the squirrel invasion at my Dad's place. Even with the heavy trigger pull, with 9mm Hydrashocks, it was dead on at 20 yards. I shot allot of squirrels that year.