Need advice...Glock 19x
- Thread starter Old Stony
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OK, you don’t like the trigger takeup on that 19x but you are shooting it fine, the groups are there. I’m assuming you are right handed so you might try a stronger grip force with your support hand to solve the low-left drift in your shot pattern, that might help get your shots right on the meatball!
I drifted the sight over and centered things up...went to the range and tried another 150 rounds of ammo on paper and steel targets...but it just isn't going to make the grade for me. I like all my other Glocks and have safes with lots of other brands, but this one just isn't going to cut it. I cleaned it up and shoved it in the back of one of my safes. Maybe some day I'll find a use for it.
I agree.
I have the same shot placement as posted in the picture when shooting with my "natural" grip. When I make myself correct my grip by applying a tighter grip with my support hand the shots center up on the target.
O4L, His shot placement is not the issue as a drift to the right resolved that problem, the trigger is his only complaint about the pistol. Apparently, even after the Apex modification the trigger pull is unacceptably unpleasant for Stony’s Liking, having a great amount of travel prior to breaking. I am quite aware of Stony’s ability with a handgun and can say problems with technique is a nonexistent issue with him.
Ibmkey: said:
I own a Glock 19x and I guess it’s possible that his trigger is worse than mine, I think the trigger on mine is pretty darn good. The trigger break on my 19x is softer than the break on my Gen3 17 and 19, and the takeup on the 19x at 1,500 rounds is at least as smooth as these Gen3’s which both have a whole lot more shots downrange. Too bad, sometimes what works for some people is totally unacceptable to others.
I think I have started toward solving my problem with the Glock....I posted it up for sale online. With the parts I bought for it, I'll take a loss of about $140.00, but I don't' have to
go through any more fits trying to make it work for me. My other Glocks will stay with me, as I don't have to "adjust my grip" on any such thing to make them work right. The problem is with the pistol, not my shooting.
I basically need some good accuracy for some of the stuff I do in the woods. I cannot imagine trying to shoot a water moccasin in the head as it is going under the dock I am standing on...which has happened to me more than once....while I am waiting for the trigger on the pistol to get itself back nearly 1/2 inch to engage the mushy breaking point.
I don't just carry pistols with the thought I might have to defend myself against a large target at close range, I carry one every day in the woods and need one to do what I want it to.
The pistol in question:
go through any more fits trying to make it work for me. My other Glocks will stay with me, as I don't have to "adjust my grip" on any such thing to make them work right. The problem is with the pistol, not my shooting.
I basically need some good accuracy for some of the stuff I do in the woods. I cannot imagine trying to shoot a water moccasin in the head as it is going under the dock I am standing on...which has happened to me more than once....while I am waiting for the trigger on the pistol to get itself back nearly 1/2 inch to engage the mushy breaking point.
I don't just carry pistols with the thought I might have to defend myself against a large target at close range, I carry one every day in the woods and need one to do what I want it to.
The pistol in question:
I'm fully in the camp of if a pistol doesn't work for you sell it, regardless of whether it works for someone else. That said, the above seems a bit of an exaggeration to me. The notion that 1/2" of takeup is going to get you killed is madness. That 1/2" of takeup will not take a tenth of a second to depress, if even. There are loads of pistols with much, much longer takeup that have been used very effectively. Hell, how did people ever manage to survive in the days of double action revolvers? I get more and more convinced that people make mountains out of molehills when it comes to triggers.
I picked up a Beretta 92 out of my safe this morning and took it out with me, and stopped by the range on the way home. I shot the upper and lower target with Independence aluminum case 115 gr., which it seems to like, and the middle target with 10x 115 gr. ammo....not quite so good in it. I shot these at 7 yds, just like with the Glock.
The big difference between these groups and the glock's groups is trigger control. I don't have to try to hold my sight picture for the long pull of the trigger with a mushy trigger break at the end.
Now if I were to tape a 1/2 inch damp sponge to the Beretta's trigger, and maybe a 1/4 inch piece behind the trigger, it would shoot comparable to the Glock. My other Glocks have tolerable triggers, as do my M&P's and others. This 19x is probably the worst trigger I have seen in a long time...and trying to learn to adapt to it just isn't worth the effort.
I have some 3" S&W's that will shoot better groups than the Glock.
These groups were each 15 rounds:
The big difference between these groups and the glock's groups is trigger control. I don't have to try to hold my sight picture for the long pull of the trigger with a mushy trigger break at the end.
Now if I were to tape a 1/2 inch damp sponge to the Beretta's trigger, and maybe a 1/4 inch piece behind the trigger, it would shoot comparable to the Glock. My other Glocks have tolerable triggers, as do my M&P's and others. This 19x is probably the worst trigger I have seen in a long time...and trying to learn to adapt to it just isn't worth the effort.
I have some 3" S&W's that will shoot better groups than the Glock.
These groups were each 15 rounds:
What you posted goes exactly to my point that a degree of travel on a trigger does not preclude accuracy, as obviously the DA trigger on the Beretta isn't holding you back (assuming you decocked it for the first shot and didn't shoot all of it in SA) and I've never held a Glock that had longer trigger travel than a DA trigger. In your first picture with the Glock targets there is what looks like slanted shot stringing (low and left) that is typical of shot anticipation. I don't doubt you're a good shot, but that picture suggests more of a user problem than a pistol problem. Obviously the second picture doesn't show that and the generally circular dispersion around one point suggests a lack of systemic error.
The second picture shows you can shoot well, though I'm not sure the difference between the pictures concludes that the Glock you have is inherently inaccurate (I'm pretty confident in saying any production pistol can shoot tighter than that at 7 yds from a ransom rest) or that the difference in the triggers isn't something you're used to yet. Whether it's worth getting used to it is, like I said above, completely up to you. My argument is simply that 1/2" of travel by itself doesn't make accuracy impossible. Unless those Smiths you have are tuned, their DA pulls will be longer than 1/2" as well, at least from my experience.
If your Glock does have more travel than a DA Beretta and from a rest can't group better than the above, then it sounds like there might actually be a problem with it and maybe it should go back to Glock. This isn't me being a Glock fanboy. I have no problem believing in a lemon (and given you do fine with your other Glocks it doesn't seem like the brand has been an issue for you before). I do take issue with concluding that just the differences in trigger you've described make accuracy unachievable.
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The second picture shows you can shoot well, though I'm not sure the difference between the pictures concludes that the Glock you have is inherently inaccurate (I'm pretty confident in saying any production pistol can shoot tighter than that at 7 yds from a ransom rest) or that the difference in the triggers isn't something you're used to yet. Whether it's worth getting used to it is, like I said above, completely up to you. My argument is simply that 1/2" of travel by itself doesn't make accuracy impossible. Unless those Smiths you have are tuned, their DA pulls will be longer than 1/2" as well, at least from my experience.
If your Glock does have more travel than a DA Beretta and from a rest can't group better than the above, then it sounds like there might actually be a problem with it and maybe it should go back to Glock. This isn't me being a Glock fanboy. I have no problem believing in a lemon (and given you do fine with your other Glocks it doesn't seem like the brand has been an issue for you before). I do take issue with concluding that just the differences in trigger you've described make accuracy unachievable.
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You're right, I know nothing. I really don't know what I was thinking even posting here.
It's nice to know that there are those here that have reached perfection and that others know of, and can testify to that perfection.
Carry on.
Spats McGee
Administrator
The OP has reached a solution (sell the pistol), and the debate is starting to degenerate. I'm going to close this one out before it turns ugly.
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