Need a Remington Rolling Block expert

D

Doc Hoy

New member
I have a carbine from the Egyptian contract. The rifle appears in great shape. I have shot it a coupla times successfully.

But I noticed a feature on this rifle that is a bit troubling.

It is entirely possible that this behavior has been present in the rifle from the beginning. It is entirely possible that nothing is wrong with the rifle. I just need a RRB smart guy to tell me so.

At full cock, the rolling block can be opened easily for loading.

But

Once the cartridge is placed in the breach and the breach block is closed, the breach block ought to lock in place. But it doesn't. I go to full cock. Load the cartridge. Close the breach. but then I can still open the breach.

This means that the only thing holding the breach closed upon discharge is the hammer. I must admit that it is nice and tight. The hammer is substantial. No way it is coming open. It just seems as though the breach block should snap in place when the rifle is in battery.

I have had the rifle apart and can find nothing wrong with internals.

From this description, does it appear that the rifle is working properly?
 
If the breech remains closed and cannot be opened at half cock, and also when the hammer is down on the firing pin, then your RRB is working properly.
 
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As you may see at the attached picture, even at half cock the action must remain closed. And the same when you shoot it and the hammer is touching the firing pin.
 

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The "traditional" Rolling Block action does NOT lock shut. The rolling block is held shut during firing by the weight (inertia) of the block, and the hammer & spring tension, and the eccentric cam the block rotates on.

They don't lock shut in the way a falling block does. They are "held shut" not "locked closed" when the hammer falls.

hope this helps


They are (in proper working order) strong enough for the pressures of their original chamberings but don't have much of a strength margin beyond that. NOT suitable for high pressures.
 
Yup -- normal design function
Scary at first, but then you realize/begin to appreciate to breathtakingly-elegant simplicity of the design.)

Rolling-Block-Action.jpg
 
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Its extremely simple and robust design is for me much much better than the sharps or trapdoor ones, and much faster to operate.

Remember that after the civil war the trapdoor was adopted because it was just a modification of the existing issued rifle and the sharps was the only available rifle that any civilian could buy because the vast majority of remingtons were being exported. That is the main reason behind the higher popularity for the trapdoor or the sharps IMHO.

They fought the Great War aside many repeating rifles, its rate of fire per minute being higher than that of the sharps or trapdoors.
 
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Unless the breech is closed,it blocks the hammer from falling. So you are not going to fire from an unlocked breech block, with one notable possiblity.(To be aware of) If the firing pin is stuck forward,acting as a fixed firing pin.
So it behooves you to practice reasonable maintnance on your breech block.

Once the hammer begins to fall,the breech is not going to open.

There is a provision for some operating clearance between the breech block and hammer during hammer fall,but its arranged that the clearance closed to zero in the last of the hammer fall.Its a cam thing.

There are early rolling blocks that are less strong,to be used with black powder only.Look it up,look at pictures,but they are identified by a step between the receiver side and the upper half of the recever ring.

The "smokeless" receivers have no step,and have thicker steel over the top of the receiver ring.

While the RB is called a "strong" action,thats relative to late 19th century "strong"

I'm NOT a RB "expert". I simply have a LITTLE bit of experience with them.

Treat them as the late 1800's /turn of the century metallurgy and technology they are,and have fun!! I would encourage shooting glasses.
 
Not to be alarmist, you can screw up anything, but there have been cases of Rolling Blocks that have been tinkered with and a camming engagement produced between breechblock and hammer. A rifle so deformed will cam open when fired. Rare but not impossible.

The Rolling Block is a strong action by black powder standards. It made the transition to smokeless and was considered adequate for 7mm Mauser, 8mm Lebel, and .30-40 Krag that I know of.
But I read an article on demolished Rolling Blocks. A blown case head or a wrong powder load letting gas into the boxy receiver will blow it harder than a Trapdoor.
 
As stated, the Rolling Block was relatively strong by the standards of the time. The Rolling Block was famous as "the gun that fires both ways", i.e. if modified by putting a lighter hammer spring in it, the firing pin could force the hammer back when the gun was fired and the breech would open under pressure. Simple solution, don't put a lighter hammer spring on it, I know. But the factory hammer spring was tremendous, and a lot of target shooters in the late 19th Century would reduce the strength of the hammer spring so it could be cocked easier. You can google it and find hours of entertaining reading about it.
 
HiBC said:
...to be used with black powder only . . . look at pictures . . . they are identified
by a step between the receiver side and the upper half of the receiver ring.
Click to expand...
Had not heard/known that before. Good info to have tucked away.
 
Mehavy,your pic in post #9 shows the step for a black powder only action.

With the later,stronger(relatively) receiever,there is additional steel over the top of rhe receiver ring which eliminates the step The ones I'm talking about are mostly military rifles.

There is also a sporting rifle version,where the top half of the receiver ring is profiles octagon.

I think those can be found in two varieties. The real ones and the fake ones made by modifying a military.

As I understand it ( I'm NOT an expert) converting one to octagon cuts the strength of the case hardening off. At best,I'd considr a modified one black powder only.

IMO,we all must be thinking in terms of the unknowns regarding steel,heat treat,and history with 100 plus year old receivers.

From my non-expert opinion,I'd feel OK shooting a smokeless version rifle that is well fitted and in good shape ,up to the same pressures I'd trust a single locking lug,similar vintage steel and heat treat Krag in 30-40.

Which is about 40,000 psi and I would not hot rod it.I might shoot for 36,000

Once again,I'm NOT an expert,and those limits are for MY face,based on my illusions.
You make your own decisions for your face,and kindly leave me out of it!
 
A while ago I read about the Egyptian models. Don't recall much about it. This is a carbine and does not appear to have been cut down from a rifle. The barrel is .45-70.
 
I would guess it was born a 43 Egyptian. If it is truly a 45-70,that would be a popular and practical choice for a rebarrel. Ods are,it has been rebarreled.

IMO,thats a good thing. I don't know where to buy a box of 43 Egyptian.

I would expect its safe with trapdoor loads. I'd have to do research to refresh my memory,I just do not recall if its up to 1886 Win loads. I might stop short of those.
Its defintely NOT Ok for Ruger single shot or Siamese Mauser level loads.

You might enjoy exploring Black Powder Cartridge loads, See Mike Venturino's book "Shooting Buffalo Rifles" or something like that. Good book!
 
HiBC said:
With the later, stronger(relatively) receiever,there is additional steel over
the top of the receiver ring which eliminates the step The ones I'm talking
about are mostly military rifles.
Click to expand...
45-90-Bodine-Paul-Jones.jpg

My Bodine is of the "strong" receiver designs.... I just never knew of the design change.
:D
 
Cool. A Bodine is a high quality modern repro made in Texas,IIRC.

None of the 100 year old questionable stuff. I was talking about originals
 
Coupla responses.

To HiBC,

Yes...I am almost certain is it is a rebarrel. Many of the rifles intended for Egypt found their way into France but went there in the .43 Egyptian cartridge. I think this caliber is very similar to .43 Spanish but I don't know.

When I acquired this rifle I had my eye on a different n which was in .43 Egyptian. I looked into reloading the cartridge and the more I looked, the more frightened I became. .348 converswions and such.

While the original contract was for 60,000 arms, Eventually, almost a quarter million were used in France (Remington Rolling Block. retrieved 5/29/20). I do not know if these rifles were provided by Egypt (unlikely) or diverted to France before delivery.

The receiver is said by some authors to be strong enough for 1880s vintage smokeless loads. I do not intend to put it to that use, since I only load BP in .45-70 rounds.

To Mehavey,

Roger, out.
 
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