Nedd help choosing an all purpose shtf rifle

One of the problems I see with the question is the reference to an "all-purpose" rifle. It reminds me of the discussion (for lack of a better word :eek: in the thread on Col Cooper and his Scout Rifle idea).

There is no such thing as an "all-purpose" tool which performs all tasks as well as the specialized tool. Anything which is all-purpose will not be optimized in any one area, but will be able to perform to some extent in all areas. To get something, you will have to give something.

My answer would be that the best rifle would be the one which you have and are proficient with and can carry. If you don't have it, or cannot shoot it well, then it will most likely not do you much good.

My personal preference would be for a Colt AR-15 or clone. I can shoot it okay (look, I'm not a rifleman, YET), and i can grab it and a good supply of ammo and go.

An M1A or similar class rifle would be a good choice with more punch and range, but also more weight to carry.

But in the end, it's what you have and can carry and shoot. Look at the options, make a careful choice, then go with it.
 
Good Sir Eatman, I agree it's not simple. My point was simply that, given a rampaging mob headed in my direction, I'd rather hit them sooner than later, farther out than closer in. I don't WANT them close.

I'm a better shot with a rifle than John Average Public, and I want to keep that advantage. If I can drop them consistently at 300 meters (and I can, with a standard AR-15) then that's where I want to engage them. I'm no master rifleman by any means, but I think we all know that there are not a lot of people in the general population who can do that. Amongst real shooters I probably don't rank in the top 40%. But compared to the general population I'm sure I rank much higher.

There certainly is a place for bringing an enemey close in where you can trap and destroy him, but a large mob scene doesn't seem to lend itself to that.
 
Canis, you specify $1000 to cover the full range of options. here are what I would choose, and in this order:

1. AR15 Type rifle. The advantage is you are familiar with this weapon. I prefer Bushmaster, or preban Colt, however, the BM can be had for $700 or so nowadays, and if you bargain hunt, $650-675. Mags are $15-20 a piece for 30 rounders, $20-25 for 20s. Ammo can be had for $180 a case at www.ammoman.com. I would go with the Q3131A, but you can get by with the Russian for alittle cheaper. That leaves you $100 for mags, sling, cleaning kit.

2. M1 Garand. I would prefer one in .308, as that ammo is cheaper, but as you probably know, the original is 30-06. $34 for 50 spring clips from Ammoman. .308 is around $180 for 1000 rounds. Advantage is a powerful round, and no costly mags. Avoid the new US receiver models, get on older Springfield or other USGI receivered gun.

3. AK47-Type rifle. Some variants of thse can be had for less than $300, but more commonly up to $500. Ammo from AIMsurplus $70 for 960 rnds. Mags are cheap. The sights are not that great on these things, but out to 200, you'll do fine.

I spent some time this weekend with my mossberg 590A1. While you can make 200 + yard shots with slugs, my shoulder is pretty damn sore. Rate of fire is slow, and most SGs are pretty heavy.
 
If you shoot at people while they are still 300 yds or more away you might have alot of explaining to do when law & order are restored.
 
Good suggestions all thus far.

I suppose the reasoning behind purchasing a rifle for this purpose is more pre-emptive than anything else. I am concerned with the direction I see our government heading to help the sheep feel "safe". For pete's sake, I can even bring my Leatherman Micra into the State Fair of Texas or on an Airplane?!!

I worry about a backlash against anything and everything that the populace sheep deem "dangerous in the wrong hands" When vehicle and body searches are met without even so much as a "Hey, wait a minute, you can't do that! it's against the Bill of Rights!!!" I start getting nervous that more permanent restrictions on our freedoms are close at hand. I've never quite felt the sense of urgency I feel now to get my hands on those items that I deem necessary to put me in an advantage when the other shoe drops regarding all of this stuff.

I do worry about some nut job running into a mall and screaming "Praise Allah Death to the infidels!!" at the top of his lungs while letting loose with something. I hope I get an opportunity for a well placed couple of shots at the sonofabitch before too many pepole get killed. I will not go anywhere without protection. I feel that my home and family should be protected at all times and damn the consequences.

It just seems prudent to ensure that at least I am ready to fight whatever battle is necessary for defense of hearth and home - a handgun can't serve that purpose as well as a good "assault" rifle. I did not feel this way before 9/11 - I do now and am reacting to it. Maybe I should have thought this way beforehand, but I didn't.

I appreciate all the input thus far. I still have not made up my mind - but AM leaning towards an AR style since I know I can peg a man sized target 10 for 10 at 500 yards with iron sights with one! (Gotta love the rifle qual training in the Marines!)

canis
 
another AR advantage is all the government tested accessories and literature available for the platform
making an aimpoint work on an AR is well researched

need parts?
Its been in production for 30 years,
parts are out there from a hundred places

need some more training?
check out
Jim Crews
Urban Carbine, some of the answers
http://www.marksmans.com/
 
Canis,

You darn well have a point about the mall scenario. Terrorists in Israel have evidently become considerably more cautious about running in to spray civilian targets...because concealed carry Israelis kept dropping them with low casualties on the Izzie's part.

Something not mentioned was the M1 Carbine. Shorty, handy, reliable (don't get a Universal), cost-effective, cheap mags. A recent article I read had shooters at a recent Thunder Ranch class hitting with them past 300 yards without difficulty.

Good luck at 500, though.


If I were you, I would ask yourself what the most important aspect of a defensive rifle is to you: range, cost, weight, power, multiple target engagement, etc. Make a list of all the arms that will fill that *MOST IMPORTANT* requirement well, then see which of those arms also meet many other desired requirements. We're all unique, and move and fight differently. Use what works for you, and good luck!
 
If you shoot at people while they are still 300 yds or more away you might have alot of explaining to do when law & order are restored.
Click to expand...

It should go without saying (at least on this forum) that you are sure of a real threat before you go to deadly force.


And I'm not aware that it was much of a problem for some Korean shopkeepers living in L.A. a few years ago. And they were on national news, firing away. You only need one to aquit.

Better to be judged by 12...
 
Something not mentioned was the M1 Carbine. Shorty, handy, reliable (don't get a Universal), cost-effective, cheap mags. A recent article I read had shooters at a recent Thunder Ranch class hitting with them past 300 yards without difficulty.
Click to expand...

I concur. The M1 Carbine makes a fine little urban emergency rifle. It has good sights, it's very handy, and you can carry a lot of .30 Carbine before it gets heavy. One of those in your hands will let you engage anything within 200 yards, and that little semi-auto carbine can lay down a pretty impressive amount of suppressive fire if needed.

Come to think of it, I'd feel just fine with my M1 Carbine in hand and the Enfield No.4 on my back for targets beyond 200 yards.
 
I ... AM leaning towards an AR style since I know I can peg a man sized target 10 for 10 at 500 yards with iron sights with one!
Click to expand...

This should be the decisive factor for you. Go with what you know.
 
captainHoek, I can agree in principle with your 300 yards, but again, it's situational. I've lived in urban areas where hills, trees and curving streets preclude ANY shot beyond 75 to 100 yards. However, from my present home--stipulating appropriate ID--I have a nice field of fire for a .50 BMG. :)

Here again, going it alone is not the ultimate in wisdom. There are such possibilities as two or three (or more) neighbors catching Bad Guys in a crossfire...The old PPPPPP idea.

Art
 
there is no way with iron sites at 500 yards an AR type in 223 will ever stop a bad guy..limits of 223 is 300 yards....308 will reach out to about 550 yards...300 win mag is good for 750 yards which is why some military groups are choosing 300win mag over the 308....at most on the 223 you have a 20inch barrel...same can be said for any MBR or assault rifle...these guns are not long range shooters...barrel vibration can be as much as 5/8inch per shot....if you want long range accuracy..you have to choose a bolt action.....assault weapons, MBRs..are commonly referred to as spray and pray..and for good reason..these types of guns are designed for close quarter combat.....anything over 275 yards with a 223 is not going to happen..my 2 cents..HK out
 
With a $1,000 budget, I could buy:

A good quality AK variation
A box full of 30 round magazines for it
Several thousand rounds of ammo

Plus

A shotgun combo pack (short combat barrel and long choked hunting barrel).
A case of #6 shot ammo.
A case of buckshot and/or slugs
 
HK1, there are documented kills with .308 in the 1,000 yard range...look at the energy delivered, then consider how much energy a .22 LR has at the muzzle.

Documented kills with the '06 are also 1,000, so I'm fairly sure the US isn't going to .300 WM to take the enemy at 750 yards.
 
HK1, if the shooter can deliver on his part, the .223 will kill at 500. There should be no question that it will be easier to do that with a .308 - that's a given. But it's also true that very few people can do it with either one.

If you expect 500 yard targets, get a bolt gun.


Art, I agree. Every situation is different.
 
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