Necks too wide. Help.

Brass springs back

After reading the replies to this post I decided to measure the mandrels in my 30.06 Lee neck sizing die and FL die.

The mandrel from the neck sizing die measures .304 and the mandrel from the FL die is .306 at its thickest point.

Is there a reason there for the .002 difference in size of the mandrels?

Yes.

Because the way the two dies work differently. The expander button that you called a mandrel in a standard neck sizer die works by expanding the ID of the neck that was just sized way undersize for taking a bullet. The neck surface of any standard,(not the lee collet), die sizes the neck way too small to be able to seat a bullet. The button is then dragged through the neck from the bottom to expand it back to size to take a bullet,(allow it to be seated). Usually the I.D. of a neck is .003 smaller than outside diameter of the bullet. For 30 cal, or .308 that means the ID would be .305 after sizing. The O.D. of that button is NOT .305, it's bigger than that to allow for brass spring back.

Die makers figure out die dimensions assuming the reloader is working with once fired brass.

The above is because brass springs back when squeezed by the dies we use for reloading. It depends on what we're doing to it. Sizing down by shoving it into a FL, (Full length), it has to be squeezed further than where you want it to end up to allow for spring back. It also depends on how hard the brass is. Sizing causes brass to "work harden". Meaning it gets harder each time it's sized.

The mandrel on the Lee collet neck die has to be smaller that the final I.D. to allow for brass that WILL spring back. The more bullet hold or bullet pull you want, the smaller you want that mandrel. Then again the more times that brass case has been fired, the more it will spring back resulting in less bullet pull/seating pressure.
 
Then again the more times that brass case has been fired, the more it will spring back resulting in less bullet pull/seating pressure.

I've got to disagree with this, slightly. I believe its actually less "springy" the more it gets worked. When it work hardens enough, that last working (squeeze and spring back) results in a crack.

This could happen in sizing or on firing. Sizing squeezes the outside, in, and when the pressure is released, the brass springs back slightly. So you size it smaller than what you want the end result to be. Firing squeezes from the inside, out, when the pressure is removed, the case springs back, slightly, allowing extraction from the chamber.

And remember, that brass you're trimming off comes from somewhere. Meaning that over multiple firings, the case gets THINNER. And remember we are talking about tiny fractions of an inch, at a time.
 
Chuck the neck die, get a nice FL, RCBS is fine, Forster a bit nicer.

Removed the sizer ball.

Do minimum shoulder bump back.

Get a Lyman M die (uniform well made expander) use it.

DO NOT USE THE MOUTH EXANDER (well flat based bullets but barely)

Your chamber should be done on a prep station or a shoulder trim die (Gerard Tri Trimmer is the best)

Life will then be good.
 
Frankly folks, it appears bdeloa01 isn't all that interested in your replies. He posted the question, left a minute later and hasn't returned to answer any of the questions asked.
 
Frankly folks, it appears bdeloa01 isn't all that interested in your replies. He posted the question, left a minute later and hasn't returned to answer any of the questions asked.

I was going to ask that same question, where's the OP? This looks like a drive-by posting by some anti gunner looking to waste our time!:mad:
 
I was going to ask that same question, where's the OP? This looks like a drive-by posting by some anti gunner looking to waste our time!
Is it really a waste of time?
There were lots of answers given, and lots of information for anyone reading the thread, even if the OP never returns.

And if you weren't wasting your time here you'd be wasting it somewhere else. ;)
 
Necks too wide. Help.

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Just got into handloading.

I can not blame him, he 'just' got into reloading and someone has already sent him off in a dead run with their neck sizing die of their choice. I have neck sizing dies, I am sure I have a few Lee collet dies; I do not use them but I have them just in case. And then there is jump back, snap back or spring back.

F. Guffey
 
And then there is jump back, snap back or spring back.
Exactly Mr. Guffy. I used spring back to describe the fact that ALL brass doesn't stay sized.
Is it really a waste of time?
There were lots of answers given, and lots of information for anyone reading the thread, even if the OP never returns.

And if you weren't wasting your time here you'd be wasting it somewhere else.

Snyper, yes, a lot of info was brought up. We have to remember that a lot of people read posts that don't reply, and info stays with people.

I type slowly with two fingers, and my sad lack of language skills are reflected in my posts. I just wish I had listened to my wonderful English teacher that I would need language skills all my life. I hated english class, did the minimum to get a passing grade. But I guess it was NOT a waste of my time. I have lots of time now that I'm retired, well I USED TO anyway, with a new golden retriever puppy in the house, I'm busy chasing him around, training him/house breaking and to keep out of the trash can!
 
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