Neck pain

It may help to do the opposite. That leaves a bit of the neck near the shoulder unresized which can help center the neck in the chamber and can mitigate any tendency you may have to extrude the neck further forward. If you decide to outside turn the necks, that may be the best way to load them afterward, at least for the first few times.

What would be ideal is if you could find one of the old Lee Manufacturing (the defunct predecessor of Lee Precision) Zero Error Lee Loaders in 270 Winchester. These tools have an inside neck reamer that uses the die as a journal to keep the reamers centered while the neck is likewise held in place. As a result, they thin the neck from the inside while keeping it very even in wall thickness for an inside reamer. This would solve your neck thickness without changing the taper in thickness that is supposed to be there.
 
Did I say back the neck off? I think back the shoulder off is correct. You neck size and never do anything with the shoulder and the case will fill the chamber and then you try to feed the case again and the shoulder stops it. Move the shoulder back enough to clear and the case will once again chamber without difficulty. if the case and the chamber become the same size you won't be able to close the action again on that case without partial sizing or if you prefer bumping the shoulder. has nothing to do with the neck.

See if I got this. What he said he did and it worked.

"I pulled the bullet, poured the charge into a full-length sized and primed case, removed the depriming pin from the die and full-length resized the case. The length was fine, so I returned the powder charge and seated the bullet. It easily chambered".

He FL sized the case and it chambered easily. When he did that it moved the shoulder back to min spec and it no longer stopped the case from chambering. He might not have had to move the shoulder that far depending on the chamber in his rifle. If it was max spec the the case would still chamber but be somewhat loose in there. Partial size the case till it chambers easily and you do the same thing but the case fits a some what larger chamber better.
 
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“Did I say back the neck off?”
You did, but maybe I misunderstood your intent.

“I'll take a stab at this. You neck sized and the shoulder kept moving forward just a bit. That is why after several rounds you need to FL size again, back the neck off. “

But your followup post clarified it by explaining how partial resizing resolves the problem.
I have the FL die set to set the shoulder back 0.002”, so when I FL-resized, I did “partially” resize.

Here’s another twist. I also have RCBS “X” dies that claim to retard case growth to avoid trimming. I asked them how to set up the dies to achieve 0.002” shoulder setback and growth retardation and I was told I couldn’t do it with the “X” die -it was either one way or the other.
 
CAUTION: The following post (or a page linked to) includes or discusses loading data not covered by currently published sources of tested data for this cartridge (QuickLOAD or Gordon's Reloading Tool data is not professionally tested). USE AT YOUR OWN RISK. Neither the writer, The Firing Line, nor the staff of TFL assumes any liability for any damage or injury resulting from the use of this information.

This is about sizing data rather than load data, but the same warning applies.

The X-die creates a fixed space for neck brass, so it presents a hard stop to neck growth. In order for that hard stop to be located one SAAMI case length from the bottom of the head, the stop has to be fixed at that distance from the shell holder deck. As soon as you partial resize, you are making it too far from the deck, so you have to go back to conventional trimming. At least, that's true in theory. But 270 Win standard chambers have 0.010" greater neck length than the SAAMI maximum case length. You want a little extra because a round that is chambered hard will actually set its shoulder back and grow its neck a little. IIRC, -0.006" was measured by Hatcher for fast 30-06 bolt work in an Enfield. But if you load one-at-a-time or don't work the bolt rapidly and don't cam the round hard into place, that won't happen, and you then have the extra 0.010" to play with. This means the X-die could be 0.010" above the deck without having to resort to conventional trimming in that situation. But your case COL would be up to that much longer than SAAMI maximum.

The best way to tackle that would be to see what length your X-die is actually limiting your case length to when you resize fully. Then make a chamber cast and see how much actual extra neck length it actually has, then don't allow yourself to exceed the difference in height above the deck. You could, for example, use the Redding Competition Shell Holders and still contact the deck. They go up to 0.010" in extra deck height, but no more.
 
Unclenick, I'm still stuck with understanding the "X" die. If it doesn't allow you to set the shoulder back, i.e., partially resize, then when you full-length resize, what stops the brass flow if it stops neck growth? Where does the brass go?
 
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The X-die feature that stops neck lengthening by limiting how far forward the case mouth can be extruded by the die is machined into the die body. So if your case length limit is 2.540" and you use a standard shell holder, the die has to be cut, so the case mouth stopping feature is no more than 2.540" above the case supporting ledge in the shell holder. Otherwise, your case could grow to exceed SAAMI's maximum case length. If you unscrewed the die body, say, 0.005", then you would move that case mouth stopping feature up 0.005" along with it, so now it won't stop the case from growing until it is 2.545" long instead of 2.540" long.

All the above assumes ideal dimensions, however. Your die's actual stop is likely to be located to allow case length to grow a little shorter than 2.540" with a standard shell holder. RCBS told me they hold die tolerances to ±0.002", so I would not be surprised if it turned out your stop was set to limit the case to 2.538" or even slightly shorter. That means you could turn the die out by the difference between that actual number and 2.540" and still have your cases conform to SAAMI drawings. Of course, you would need to measure the length of a case that you had first trimmed per RCBS X-die instructions and then fired and reloaded a half dozen times to be sure the X-die was controlling its length and see what that number is in your particular copy of the die.

Then comes the question, how close to the SAAMI drawing do you actually need to be? The point of my previous post was that even though the SAAMI maximum case length for 270 Win is 2.540", your gun may let you get away with 2.550", which would mean you could turn the X-die up as much as 0.010" out of contact with the shell holder (or in contact with a Redding +10 thousandths Competition Shell Holder) without getting into pressure issues because a case that long should still fit in the chamber OK.

I think the above should be safe also because some of the old-timers (Townsend Whelen, for one, IIRC) said they never trimmed their cases; instead, they let their chambers do what the X-die does. I will not go so far as to recommend that because you want the case shoulder to be able to reach the chamber's shoulder to center the cartridge in the chamber. A neck that hit the start of the freebore (or ball chamber taper in the 270 Win) first would not let that happen. But if you have a typical chamber that is around 0.002" longer than the SAAMI minimum, letting the case get 0.002" longer than SAAMI maximum won't during resizing won't hurt anything, so turning the X-die out that far or using a +0.002" deck Redding Competition Shell Holder should not cause safety issues.

Take it all with a grain of safety salt in mind. I would still cast or slug the throat of the chamber to know what your gun actually has there.
 
Well, here's my limit of comprehension in this arena. I couldn't get Hornady 140 SST's in .270, so the dealer talked me into Nosler 140 Accubond at $40/50. Since I am driven to experiment, I bought them, came home and resized 10 cases that set the shoulder back 0.002." Every one was over 2.540" which forced me to trim to 2.530. Five of those were assigned to Nosler 140 Accubond at 0.015" from the rifling and the other 5 were assigned to Nosler 140gr Ballistic tip. The Accubonds looked longer, and, sure enough, the COL to Ogive was 2.970" while the Ballistic tips were 2.760, with both being 0.015" from the rifling. I don't understand how factory rounds deliver satisfactory results for average hunters.
 
As long as the chambered cartridge is reasonably straight, bullet's can have two tenths inch jump to the rifling and shoot well inside 1 MOA at 100 yards if all else is up to snuff. They stay straight going through the case neck into the throat.

Note that the bullet diameter that first contacts the throat is about .002 inch less than its maximum diameter.
 
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I tested accuracy today with 5 rounds each of .270, shooting Hornady 140gr SST, with the same charge, primers, trimmed case lengths, and seating at 0.015" from the "leade."
One group was neck-sized (and I made sure they chambered), the other was "full-length" resized with the shoulder set back 0.002". There was absolutely no difference in the point of impact. I assume it was because the shoulder set-back was not truly "full-length" resize. Correct?
 
Belief that a small jump will guarantee accuracy is misplaced. Writing in the 1995 Precision Shooting Reloading Guide, the late Dan Hackett described seating bullets 0.20" off the lands in his 40X in 220 Swift, but never being able get 5-shot groups below an average of 0.5", with the spread being 0.375" to 0.75", which is typical of variation percentage among sample sizes of five. Then one day, in switching bullet's he accidentally turned the micrometer seating depth adjustment on his seating die the wrong way and seated the bullets too deeply, putting them 0.050" off the lands. He didn't notice until he had 20 rounds loaded. He considered pulling them, but decided to go ahead and shoot those rounds in practice, expecting the longer jump to spoil the groups. To his astonishment he got two 0.25" groups and two true bugholes in the low 1s.
 
Unclenick, that sure complicates the hobby, doesn't it? I wonder how far out benchrest shooters have gone. Generally I find 0.015 or 0.020 inches will give me 3 or 5 shot satisfactory groups that repeatedly fall under 1 inch. I have a built-in red flag that prevents me from trying to get close to 0.01".

Only once have I wandered astray. I replaced the drop-down magazine in my Remington Model 700 with a removeable magazine, but I had to seat the bullets no closer than 0.06" to use it. The 5-shot groups hover between 0.966" and 1.22" at 100 yards; I can consistently hit balloons at 200 yards and drop the bullets into a 6-inch circle at 300 yards, so, with confidence, I reserve this rifle for deer hunting.

At the other extreme, seating a 65gr Hornady V-Max at 0.015" in a 6mm PPC, and at 100 yards, I fired 2 rounds at each of 4 one-inch bulls. The 8 shots averaged 0.116" and target #2 measured 0.007".

I suppose on a day with nothing else to do, I should seat toward 0.05" or so to see what happens.
 
I read the Berger info and ran an accuracy trial this morning. My LGS can’t get Hornady 140gr SST for my .270, so he suggested I try Nosler 140gr AccuBond.

I only loaded 4 sets of 3 rounds since the cost was $83/100 as compared to the SST of about $40/100.

I had previously fired a 4-shot group seated at 0.015” and it measured 0.973”.
Here’s the results:

1) Seat 0.02” – group size 1.973”
2) Seat 0.05” – group size 1.223”
3) Seat 0.09” – group size 0.410”
4) Seat 0.130” -group size 1.473”

I was simply amazed. Now, of course, I’ll need to confirm that with another larger series seated at 0.09”.
 
For 40 years, I've placed a penny between FL Sizer and shell holder because I accomplished the same thing as a neck sizer in the variety listed below. I only FL size cases for pistol and AR calibers.
 
cdoc42 said:
In a lifetime, you can never experience everything. As time goes on, even things you knew but forgot about, return to remind you.

For my .270 I compared full-length resizing, moving the shoulder back 0.002" to just neck-sizing, using a specific die, and I found I squeezed out tighter groups by neck sizing.

So I loaded up 50 rounds of 140gr Hornady SSTs and went off to chronograph them. After 5 rounds, I found one that would not chamber, but neither could I remove it without using a wooden block and hammer to knock the bolt open.
As I continued, I found more and more of the same but I had learned not to try to fully engage the bolt.

I came home and measured the necks. The Lyman manual shows the neck should be 0.310 inches. Those that chambered were that, or slightly below. Those that would not chamber were above 0.310 inches.

I pulled the bullet, poured the charge into a full-length sized and primed case, removed the depriming pin from the die and full-length resized the case. The length was fine, so I returned the powder charge and seated the bullet. It easily chambered.

In 1976 I read "The Complete Book of Practical Reloading" by John Wooters, so I rechecked what he said about neck sizing. Sure enough. When you neck size, expect to full-length resize after about 3 or so rounds. He didn't find much advantage to it, so it was his policy to always full-length resize.

So now I have a pain in MY neck, faced with pulling about 30 rounds and going through the process described above. I think I'll retire the neck-sizing die.
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It really depends on exactly how you neck size. Neck sizing has fallen out of fashion in the bench rest world. I see no reason to neck size only unless you are loading for a rifle or pistol that has headspace issues. Neck sizing still seems to be more accurate in a TC Contender and Encore. Past that, I don't do it.
 
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