NBC New York is Shocked to Learn Effect of SAFE Act

WHOA!

Tom,when was that written? It seems to be headlined May 11, 2014, but I think it's just showing the current date. Did you spot this bit?

Although the majority of Americans favor stricter handgun controls, and a consistent 40 percent of Americans favor banning the private sale and possession of handguns,[129] many Americans do believe that handguns are effective weapons for home self-defense and the majority of Americans mistakenly believe that the Second Amendment of the Constitution guarantees the individual right to keep and bear arms.[130]
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So, despite Heller and McDonald, they still don't concede that the 2A says what the Supreme Court has now affirmed that it says?
 
Tom,when was that written? It seems to be headlined May 11, 2014, but I think it's just showing the current date. Did you spot this bit?
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Actually, it was written in 1988. Until then, the focus had been on banning handguns. The general public was somewhat resistant to that idea, so Sugarmann and company had to come up with a new theme.

If you read through the whole paper, it's plainly apparent just how brazen and shameless they were about deceiving people. Thing is, it worked, and we're stuck with the consequences to this day.
 
If you read through the whole paper, it's plainly apparent just how brazen and shameless they were about deceiving people. Thing is, it worked, and we're stuck with the consequences to this day.
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And they still are brazen and shameless.

Example: The case in Connecticut a week or ten days ago in which a male high school student killed a female classmate ... in school, with a knife ... because she declined his prom invitation. Early reports on this knife attack made it a point of mentioning that Milford (CT) is only 23 miles from Newtown, where the Sandy Hook massacre took place. As if there might be any connection whatsoever between a one-on-one knife assault and a mass murder with multiple firearms.

Later articles on the Milford attack have tried to advance the notion that ... even though it involved two students and the incident occurred in school and the two students had never been in a relationship ... it wasn't a case of "school" violence, it was just "interpersonal" violence.

All of which demonstrates that "they" won't hesitate to play up the "evil guns" aspect when they can possibly spin it to their advantage, but when it goes against them they simply redefine the terms and ignore the incident as "not part of the conversation."

Much the way the government redefined Major Nidal Hasan's attack at Fort Hood. It wasn't "terrorism," it was "workplace violence."

I think it was Mark Twain who said (or wrote), "There are three kinds of lies: Lies, damned lies, and statistics."
 
Mark Twain also said something like, "If you don't read the newspaper, you're uninformed. If you read the newspaper, you're misinformed." The man was a prophet.
 
Early reports on this knife attack made it a point of mentioning that Milford (CT) is only 23 miles from Newtown, where the Sandy Hook massacre took place. As if there might be any connection whatsoever between a one-on-one knife assault and a mass murder with multiple firearms.
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Actually, there might be. The one question we aren't asking is this: why are we raising kids to resort to violence like this?

I went to high school in the late 1980's. I can't recall ever hearing about fatal school violence. Now we have a generation of kids who seem to do it on a weekly basis.

Lots of folks are chasing their tails about the instrumentality, but there's something in these kids' minds that is fundamentally broken. Until we address that, we're going to continue to have violence.
 
Most parents put in minimal effort to actually parenting their children, these days.

They'd rather buy them McDonalds and sit them in front of a TV rather than cooking them a real meal, and letting them do something constructive with their time.

It's crappy parents making crappy kids. It has nothing to do with the weapons.
 
Tom Servo said:
Actually, there might be. The one question we aren't asking is this: why are we raising kids to resort to violence like this?
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That's a point. I periodically think back to the fact that there were unsecured firearms in my grandfather's house, EVERYONE knew that they were there and where they were kept, yet no matter how angry anyone got at someone else nobody ever went for the guns to settle a disagreement.

Still, neither Sandy Hook nor the recent Milford incident is really a clear-cut candidate for such a broader discussion. The Sandy Hook shooter was very much off his rocker. Follow-up reports on the assailant in the Milford incident indicate that he is psychotic, but I haven't seen anything to tell us whether he was or wasn't diagnosed or under treatment before the murder.

The mental health implications are certainly there, and should not be ignored. You put your finger on the pulse in referring to "violence like this," rather than to "gun violence." My concern is that the anti-gunners do their best to spin all violence as "gun" violence, or to use all violence as a link to their anti-gun agenda. Thus, the early article about the Milford killing tossing in the gratuitous reference to Sandy Hook, even though virtually nothing about the Milford incident coincided to anything about Sandy Hook other than that both incidents took place in school buildings. The reality is that, by fanatically focusing on "gun" violence rather than "violence," the anti-gunners are doing society a tremendous disservice, by taking the conversation away from the direction it probably needs to go.
 
A couple of interesting points we seldom see mentioned.

There was never an objective investigation of the L.I.R.R. massacre to ask where a street bum got the money for his travel and his gun.

The investigation into Sandy Hook was conducted by the State Police, totally controlled by an anti-gun governor, working with BATFE and the FBI, controlled by an anti-gun U.S. Attorney General. The "independent" investigators found what they were told to find, and never released most of that.

Jim
 
Our emotional well-being is directly related to our connections to others. First with our parents and siblings then with friends, classmates and coworkers. Parents these days are too busy working or doing their own things so the children are left to TV and video games. Those emotional connections are weakened or lost. Kids today are either texting on their cell phones or playing video games so they don't connect with each other either. At least not like we used to. This society is creating a generation of emotionally detached people... borderline sociopaths.
 
Amazing how that works - a concept that mystifies the blissninnies decade in and decade out. If you try to ban stuff based on silly arbitrary cosmetic features, people will *FOLLOW* the law precisely and change them up enough to where they are legal. No more or less dangerous than they were previously (which is to say, not dangerous in law-abiding citizens' hands); just slightly less ergonomic than before.

Didn't LWRC or someone make a .499 round when California banned ".50 caliber and larger" rifles? Don't be surprised when we ya know, follow the law, leftists.

"And then they'll come after the bolt actions."
You mean the sniper rifles?
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Bingo. Hunting rifles are "sniper rifles" - deadly assassin's tools. They're NEVER satisfied. I guarantee you that if all we could have was a single shot .22, Feinstein and all the rest would be saying that all you need is an airgun shooting .177 pellets under 500 fps.
 
That's a point. I periodically think back to the fact that there were unsecured firearms in my grandfather's house, EVERYONE knew that they were there and where they were kept, yet no matter how angry anyone got at someone else nobody ever went for the guns to settle a disagreement.
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When I was growing up we had unsecured guns in the house. I knew where they were and where the ammo was. I also knew if I touched them I would pay a heavy price, so I didn't. I was also a Boy Scout and carried my BSA pocket knife everywhere, including school. Most of my fellow BSA kids did likewise. Nobody stabbed anyone. It was not thought of. It was a tool to be used as a tool not a weapon. Then again I came along before the baby boomers maybe that's why.
 
I have to agree with Tom's statement in post #45. I went to HS in the late 60's early 70's in Brooklyn NY and when there was violence it was 2 guys knocking the snot out of each other with fists and a possible kick. No guns, no knives.
 
Tom Servo said:
The one question we aren't asking is this: why are we raising kids to resort to violence like this?
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We're asking.... and answering... but an awful lot of folks don't like the answer. It's a world-view and morality problem and will be forever explained away by folks unwilling to acknowledge the truth for fear of having to change their own lives/views/morals.

Any more than that is, unfortunately, inappropriate for purposes of our forum. Folks can PM me if they'd like to talk about it.
 
I went to high school in the late 1980's. I can't recall ever hearing about fatal school violence. Now we have a generation of kids who seem to do it on a weekly basis.

Lots of folks are chasing their tails about the instrumentality, but there's something in these kids' minds that is fundamentally broken. Until we address that, we're going to continue to have violence.
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I graduated High School in 75. There was nothing then like today. but also, back then, if kids got into a fight, the local law officers, counselors, and social and health services were not involved, either.

Also, when something did happen, big or small, it wasn't world wide news in a matter of minutes, or less. Nor was it in our face 24/7 for days or weeks.
There seems to me more violence, in general, today, but, how much of that is the "internet effect", and round the clock news?

Is there actually more? Or does it just seem so, because we hear about it constantly today?


Along with all the other social changes, kids today have 24/7 access to our entertainment media, including all the interactive games. Most feature some degree of violence, and some are almost noting but.

I'm not trying to start a discussion about what/how much influence this has, but I feel that thinking this has no influence is not realistic.

Not too many generations ago, a guy could be punched in the face for using coarse language around a woman. And no one went to jail, generally.

The lucky folk got to go to the movies, once a week. Violence in the movies was entertainment, partly because if was a rare treat (the movie). Today, kids can see violence, very often with guns, from the time they open their eyes until they close them.

How can this NOT be some level of training?

(and please, don't start on what studies show, or don't show, today. Save that for another thread)

We have to recognize that some people do violence for any, or even no reason we can understand. We need to control THEM, not what things they use, that the rest of us use, as well.
 
We need to control THEM, not what things they use, that the rest of us use, as well.
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Yes, we may never know all the reasons why, but I think we all agree that the NY SAFE Act isn’t the answer. Currently Congress is looking at competing Bills to address the most obvious cause mental illness. Whether they can reach any kind of consensus remains to be seen, but at least these efforts have the potential to address the real problem.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2014/05/08/mental-health-bills-introduced/8816035/
 
The current US Congress ruling about mental illness...hmmmm

not sure if that calls to mind the pot and the kettle, or the fox and the henhouse....

They have the potential to do go....

On the other hand, they might surprise me.....
:rolleyes:
 
I think increased permissiveness, instant gratification, and an entitlement attitude are partly to blame. Some parents just won't tell their kids "no" and when someone does they don't know how to handle it. I don't know anyone that hasn't been turned down for a date at one time or another and it never led to violence.
Why are people so quick to pick up a weapon at the slightest provocation? I don't know but I'm afraid the government is going to try to fix it for us.
 
Tom Servo : "I went to high school in the late 1980's. I can't recall ever hearing about fatal school violence. Now we have a generation of kids who seem to do it on a weekly basis."
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I bet you also never heard of any kids taking SSRI's, ie. prozac, zoloft or other depression medication which creates suicidal/homicidal tendencies
 
I am a retired elementary school teacher. At the end of my career I was amazed that the line for students on meds to the nurse's office at lunch time was longer than the food line. I think that can explain a lot about what is happening to children today.
 
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