Natural Pointing: Definition Please

[JohnKSa]

I like your set-up for that experiment to remove some variables.

I've seen a couple of respected sources that indicate that the designer of the Remington P51 pistol did some experiments with a large number of people that were something along the line of what I suggested in my post. He then set up the grip angle of his design to be as natural as possible for the "average" person.

I've also heard it alleged that something similar was attempted during the design of the original Glock pistol.

I can't verify the story about the Glock design but here's a (crudely done--my apologies) overlay of a G19 onto a Remington P51 pistol showing that they do have very similar grip angles. (The P51 grip safety is not visible in the picture since it compresses when the gun is in a firing grip and therefore doesn't affect the grip angle.)

During all your discussion I had been visualizing everything mentioned with a one hand grip on a handgun.

There's no change in the relationship of my strong hand/wrist/forearm when I take a two-handed grip vs. a one-handed grip.

 

[joneb]

I have owned a Glock 17 and 19, both pointed high for me, shooting these guns without a sight picture was pointless

 

[MidwestRookie]

I think the way a gun points is directly related to how well it fits in your hand..if you have to move your hand akwardly to hold it comfortably then its probably not a natural pointing gun to you..

 

[smince]

I think the way a gun points is directly related to how well it fits in your hand..if you have to move your hand akwardly to hold it comfortably then its probably not a natural pointing gun to you..

A gun that does not fit the hand is very different from a person that can not articulate his wrist to index the gun.

The reason I said earlier that it is a software problem: I, and many others I train with, have no problem either aiming or point-shooting any handgun we pick up. I do as well with a Glock, 1911, or D/A revolver.

I've found that I can shoot any gun well if I just SHOOT IT!

Grip angle is one of those discussion points often used to promote one weapon over another (like when someone says the AK has bad ergonomics). You should be able to pick up any handgun, with any grip angle, and index it on target.....immediately!

 

[BlueTrain]

I was born without any natural talent to pick up any handgun and shoot it naturally. Some are just too small; few are too large, many are just right. For me, there's a lot that enters into whether or not I find a given handgun easy to shoot, from a pointability standpoint.

Grips are one thing. They're easy to change on revolvers, not so easy of some automatics. There's a lot of subtle variations possible, so I've tried a lot of different grips. Some grips are great, others, even from the same manufacturer, are not so great. For an automatic, usually the most you can do is to change the texture, sometimes add a thumb rest, if you like that sort of thing.

I once owned a Luger and in fact if was one of my first three handguns (not sure which I owned first). I thought it had a wonderful grip but for me at least, that didn't make it a natural pointer. The barrel was on the light side. On the other hand, some short barrel revolvers seemed to have a lot of weight in the barrel, so they seemed to point nicely. But I'm speaking here of point shooting with one hand, not two handed aimed fired but even then, a slight barrel heavy feel seems to help. Nothing helped with some guns I've used, however. They were simply inaccurate. But nothing is impossible about this stuff; only some things are easier than other things.

One last thing, however, and that's about this business of pointing your index finger. I tried it out some the other night and it seems to work, yet I never figured out how to do that with my trigger finger and operate the gun at the same time.

 

[Old Woodsmen]

I have found that a great deal of "Natural Pointing" has to do with 1. How well the weapon fits in my hand and 2. Simple frequent handling that weapon and (Safely) pointing it at small objects of about the size of a tennis ball or smaller and see where my site picture ends up. I also live fired at a man sized silhouette from 3 to 7 yards using point shooting. I have an XDm 40 and a Stoeger Cougar 40 and have found the Cougar to be my "Natural Pointing" weapon. When shooting at the silhouette at 3 yards with that weapon just out of the holster firing at hip level I have been able to keep six rounds fired within a six inch circle with a few ragged holes where bullets were closely placed. The XDm on the other hand, as much as I've fired it I have to aim it and even at that I don't do well with it. I've even swapped grip panels, it feels better but the Stoeger just feels far more natural in my hands. So the Cougar is my CCW and the XDm is set aside for the possibility of TEOTWAWKI, with four 16 round magazines it does make an excellent weapon for Zombies.