Nationwide Lead Ammo Ban

UPDATE:

The EPA is considering the petition mentioned by BillCA and has opened the issue for public comment. NSSF has an excellent website that links you to both good information on the issue, the petition by anti-hunting/anti-gun groups, and a link where you can register your comment with the EPA.

http://www.nssfblog.com/epa-considering-ban-on-traditional-ammunition-take-action-now/

Please take a moment to help make sure that this poorly thought out petition does not result in EPA overstepping its regulatory bounds and creating a mess for all of us.
 
Birds use a gizzard to grind the food they eat, and if lead shot ends up there it will be ground fine enough to allow absorption.

Ask the hunting-raptor expert how well the gizzards in his flock of meat/carrion eaters grind up lead...:rolleyes:

This is just more politically motivated "science", used to create a conclusion that meets a preconceived idea.:barf:
...and it is all too common nowadays.

I would like to see the "millions of animals" killed by lead poisoning, and not the high-velocity type.

I may get spanked for saying this but, I make it a point to increase my EPA footprint whenever I hear about stuff like this.
Used motor oil is as good as round-up, and a mattress fits in the fire pit, go figure...:eek:
 
I may get spanked for saying this but, I make it a point to increase my EPA footprint whenever I hear about stuff like this.

And I would say that if you knew enough science to make an educated deduction of what constitutes "politically motivated science" as you put it, you'd know that the phrase "EPA footprint" has absolutely no meaning.

And here I always heard that hunters are supposed to be big on taking care of nature, so that they can pass it on to their kids. I guess that's gone out the window in favor of "let's just do whatever we don't think has any consequences right now, just because it might **** off some hippies."
 
And I would say that if you knew enough science to make an educated deduction of what constitutes "politically motivated science" as you put it, you'd know that the phrase "EPA footprint" has absolutely no meaning.

"EPA footprint" is a play on words. If I am the only one finds meaning in the phrase, then obviously I have created my own language.;)


And here I always heard that hunters are supposed to be big on taking care of nature, so that they can pass it on to their kids. I guess that's gone out the window in favor of "let's just do whatever we don't think has any consequences right now, just because it might **** off some hippies."

I have heard the same thing about hunters...
I am not a hunter, though, so I guess that was directed elsewhere...

It has been my experience that you tree-huggers have a rather broadened view of your impact on the universe.:D

"let's just do whatever we don't think has any consequences right now, just because it might **** off some hippies."
:confused:

LOL, and I thought I created a new language...
That is beautiful.

Good luck with your planet.

p
 
And here I always heard that hunters are supposed to be big on taking care of nature, so that they can pass it on to their kids. I guess that's gone out the window in favor of "let's just do whatever we don't think has any consequences right now, just because it might **** off some hippies."

Hunters and are far and away the biggest contributors to wildlife programs through license fees and outright donations and hunting groups. Think its different, think again..

Michigan once funded a bird watching stamp that bird watchers could voluntairly buy in order to support avian research ect... Guess what, Michigan couldnt even sell enough birdwatching stamps to pay for the printing of the stamp.... So whos really for nature...

Forgive me facts are so non PC nowdays... :cool:

Facts warning, beware of link below.
http://www.cva.com/huntfacts.php#hunt-2
 
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Not just hunters contribute either - target and competitive shooters pay tons of money into the wildlife conservation funds via the 11% tax on firearms and ammunition. I don't do much hunting these days; but last time I bought ammo it was 4,000 rounds of centerfire ammunition in a single purchase. 11% x 4,000 rounds is not a small chunk of change.

Of course, if ammunition costs triple or double because I have to buy non-lead ammo, I probably won't be spending near as much time shooting. It seems to me that a ban on lead ammo is more likely to harm wildlife by drastically lowering the funds collected for wildlife conservation through the firearms excise tax.
 
If anyone wants to see how they will end up banning lead bullets, simply do a google search for the terms "condor lead".

Coming to a state near you.
 
For those who claim that lead is killing "millions" of animals, could you please provide some references to refereed, scholarly publications? I am not impressed by some report from some organization with an agenda.

Secondly, it is sad that some uprincipled individuals, supported by the gullible and well-intentioned have chosen to use this issue as a means of back-door gun control. I guarantee, if the give on this, then next it will be copper poisoning that will be the problem. Also, have you priced lead-free ammo lately? Much of it costs much more, according to Midway's and Graf's catalogs, than lead ammunition.

Finally, they are still finding mostly intact lead bullets on Revolutionary War battlefields. Those bullets have been in the ground about 230 years of so, and still retain much of their original mass. I think that much of what we are hearing about the problems of lead amounts to nothing more than propaganda and MSM sensationalizing. If I am wrong, show me some articles in refereed, academic journals that don't have a dog in this fight. Again, "scientific" reports published by organizations with an agenda don't count, since they may have begun their "research" with a conclusion that was predetermined before they even began to collect data.
 
Go to the EPA website and submit your opinion on this proposal - the more opinions they get the better - here is what I sent them:

The proposed ban on lead ammunition is extreme and would result in no proven benefit while severely impacting the shooting sports and hunting communities. The negative impact on those communities would in turn significantly impact the funding of wildlife conservation efforts through the Pittman-Robertson Act and over the 10,000 clubs and organizations such as NRA, Ducks Unlimited, Safari Club International, shooters, and fishermen that fund nearly 75% of the annual income for all 50 state conservation agencies.

It is primarily from that funding and from the volunteer efforts of individuals in those communities that wildlife populations have made such dramatic resurgences in the last fifty years - the following have all increased in populations - most more than double - some ten times or more in the last fifty years -
18,000 wolves, 1 to 10 million coyotes, 30 million deer, 600,000 black bears, 32,500 brown bears, 30,000 mountain lions, 42 million ducks, 255,000 moose, 1,000,000 elk, 70,000 bald eagles, 5 million alligators, 530.000 bison (500,000 privately owned and 30,000 in conservation herds), over 1 million caribou, 40,000 to 100,000 mountain goats, 19,000 big horn sheep, 10 to 15 million beavers, the number of turkey vultures roughly doubled between 1980 and 2000, while black vulture populations increased more than fourfold. -Turkey vultures - 1,300,000 and Black vultures - 250,000, Red Tailed Hawks 2,000,000, Peregrine Falcons - 300,000, and the Wild Turkey - 1,200,000.

These continuing increases in wildlife populations have occurred despite allegations that the use of lead in ammunition poses a significant threat to them. Additionally the CDC’s (Center for Disease Control) own study http://www.nssf.org/share/PDF/ND_report.pdf demonstrated that use of lead ammunition does not pose any significant health risk to hunters or those who consume game harvested with lead ammunition. Wildlife populations are demonstrably more impacted by roads, vehicles, and wind farms.

Additionally, there is no economically viable substitute for lead in ammunition - lead prices have increased to about two dollars a pound - but the most viable substitute - bismuth is seventeen dollars a pound and is not available commercially in the quantities that would be needed to substitute for lead. Practically speaking a ban on lead ammunition would effectively be an economic ban on many of the shooting sports, which would have the consequence of pricing many individuals out of them and thus result in a major loss of funding for wildlife preservation, ultimately to the detriment of the wildlife populations that this proposed rule is supposed to protect.

This proposed rule would destroy the reloading of ammunition - destroy the ability of those who hunt with traditional muzzle loaders to do so, as traditional muzzle loaders require the use of soft lead balls, and will create a political and legal firestorm.

Whether or not this proposal is even legal is questionable given that ammunition and fishing lures are taxed under - 26 U.S.C. § 4181 - and thus are covered by - statutory enactment, 15 U.S.C. § 2602(2)(B)(v) - which would exempt them from 15 U.S.C. § 2605(a)(2)(A)(i).

In summary, adoption of this proposal would violate federal statute, would negatively impact wildlife populations by de-funding through the loss of tax revenue and donations to private sportsman’s wildlife preservation organizations those programs that have contributed to the dramatic increases in wildlife populations in recent decades, and would do nothing to materially protect the health of hunters, fishermen, sportsmen, consumers of harvested wildlife, or wildlife populations.

This proposal is merely an attempt by the opponents of hunting, fishing, and sport shooting to ban those activities through the backdoor by attempting to use the EPA to enact their agenda. I would urge the EPA based on the facts of the matter to deny enactment of this proposal.
 
Not completely.

Today, August 27, 2010, the EPA denied (part of) the petition by the CBD to ban lead in ammunition. You can read the response of the EPA here.

That's the good news.

The bad news is that they are still considering a ban on lead sinkers.
 
A different point of view...

While I do agree completely with the fact that ammunition containing lead does not pose a threat to the environment, I feel that the bulk of the discussion in this thread has missed a vital, and relevant point.

And that is, the authority and power of the EPA to make this decision. This is not an an elected body. Career bureaucrats and politial apointees should not have the power to make law.

Regulations are for the implementation of law, not the creation of such.


Thoughts?
 
It seems to me that a ban on lead ammo is more likely to harm wildlife by drastically lowering the funds collected for wildlife conservation through the firearms excise tax.
A very good point, and one that I'm to understand resonated with the EPA during the RFC process.

And that is, the authority and power of the EPA to make this decision. This is not an an elected body. Career bureaucrats and politial apointees should not have the power to make law.
They don't have the authority. OSHA tried a similar backdoor thing with the 1910.109 standard a couple of years back.

People mobilized, and more than a few elected officials started asking the same question. OSHA very quickly back-pedaled on the matter.

To answer your question, they don't have the authority, but that won't stop them from trying. The good news is, the people who do have the authority can put a stop to it.

(I could make a wider political point about the number of "czars" who serve without the oversight of election, but I think we all know how that's being abused.)
 
EPA Denies Petition Calling for Lead Ammunition Ban

Release date: 08/27/2010

Contact Information: Brendan Gilfillan gilfillan.brendan@epa.gov

WASHINGTON - The U.S. Environmental Protection Agency today denied a petition calling for a ban on the production and distribution of lead hunting ammunition. EPA sent a letter to the petitioners explaining the rejection – that letter can be found here: http://www.epa.gov/oppt/chemtest/pubs/sect21.html

Steve Owens, EPA assistant administrator for the Office of Chemical Safety and Pollution Prevention, issued the following statement on the agency’s decision:

“EPA today denied a petition submitted by several outside groups for the agency to implement a ban on the production and distribution of lead hunting ammunition. EPA reached this decision because the agency does not have the legal authority to regulate this type of product under the Toxic Substances Control Act (TSCA) – nor is the agency seeking such authority.

“This petition, which was submitted to EPA at the beginning of this month, is one of hundreds of petitions submitted to EPA by outside groups each year. This petition was filed under TSCA, which requires the agency to review and respond within 90 days.

“EPA is taking action on many fronts to address major sources of lead in our society, such as eliminating childhood exposures to lead; however, EPA was not and is not considering taking action on whether the lead content in hunting ammunition poses an undue threat to wildlife.

“As there are no similar jurisdictional issues relating to the agency's authority over fishing sinkers, EPA – as required by law – will continue formally reviewing a second part the petition related to lead fishing sinkers.

“Those wishing to comment specifically on the fishing tackle issue can do so by visiting http://www.regulations.gov. EPA will consider comments that are submitted by September 15.”

R286

(the above U.S. Government public document is not subject to copyright)
 
Yessssssssssss!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! But let us still let them know that lead sinkers are not okay to ban either - lets not be Fudds and say well my shotgun is okay so who cares about that black rifle.
 
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